running out of water in humidifier

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sleepyinmississippi
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running out of water in humidifier

Post by sleepyinmississippi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:55 am

Hello.
Last night, for the first time in months, I slept all night with my CPAP mask on (got a new mask!)
One problem--when I woke up this morning, the CPAP humidifier completely ran out of water, even though I filled it close to the halfway mark.
I would fill it further, but when I put more water in it at the beginning of the night, I get rainout (or a popping sound when I put my CPAP mask on.)
Is there some happy medium I'm overlooking?

Thanks,

Sleepyinmississippi

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Pugsy
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by Pugsy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:10 pm

What machine are you using and at what setting on the humidifier?
Can you go to the link that you have chosen for your humidifier? I bet it doesn't look like that one.
What's the model number for your machine?
Let's figure out exactly what equipment you are using.

The fill level of the tank shouldn't make any difference in rain out in the tube because rain out is a function of the humidifier setting and room temperature and not the amount of water in the tank. If you are using a PR S1 machine...ambient room humidity is a factor.

There are things that can be done to limit rain out...like a hose cozy or putting the humidifier a bit lower on the table or reducing the humidifier setting.
Also...leaks can cause the water to be used up much more quickly...so need to figure out if leaks are a problem for you...so need to know if your machine will give you leak data...hence the request for the model number so I can point you to software if your machine gathers leak data.

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sleepyinmississippi
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by sleepyinmississippi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:36 pm

Pugsy,
I'm using the Phillips Respironic Remstar System 1 CPAP.
The humidifier has written on it "Remstar heated humidifier System 1."
It also says: REF 1056215. and SN HO5833799. Is any of that information helpful?
If not, I'm going to work now so I won't be able to re-post until I get back at 5 p.m. for my dinner break.
Thanks in advance for your help and patience!

sleepyinmississippi
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by sleepyinmississippi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:38 pm

Pugsy,
Could I have done any damage to my CPAP/humidifier by allowing it to run out of water?

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Pugsy
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by Pugsy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:54 pm

sleepyinmississippi wrote:I'm using the Phillips Respironic Remstar System 1 CPAP.
The humidifier has written on it "Remstar heated humidifier System 1."
It also says: REF 1056215. and SN HO5833799. Is any of that information helpful?
Not familiar with those numbers...maybe they are off the humidifier. When you get home look on the bottom of the blower unit for a 3 digit number.

There are several PR Remstar System One models that say CPAP on them.
Any other words on it...if not...that would be the model 150.
Next Model is 250 or 260 and it says Remstar Plus CPAP with CFlex on it...no useful data

Next up would be 450 or 460 and it says Remstar Pro CPAP with CFlex...it has full data available.
Higher than 450 model numbers are all full data.

No you didn't damage anything letting it run dry. I have done it myself. Stinks something awful if it goes on too long but that's about the worst of it. It probably wasn't dry all that long. Heck I have forgotten to even add the water and have it run dry most of the night till the smell woke me up. The plastic gets hot and stinks but I don't think it gets hot enough to damage anything.

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DiverCTHunter
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by DiverCTHunter » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:59 pm

sleepyinmississippi wrote: Could I have done any damage to my CPAP/humidifier by allowing it to run out of water?
Doubtful. I've run the water out in mine many-a-time. I can't find a cross-reference on Phillips' site, but this looks like the DH5 humidifier.

How are you filling the tank (pouring in through the air hole on top, removing tank lid & filling to line, etc...)

If you place the tank on a flat, level surface and squeeze the tab on the top of the tank, the lid should pop off and unhinge from the back. Once that's done, you should be able to fill it up to the "Max" line and re-install the lid without any water leaking out.

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archangle
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by archangle » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:06 pm

Some machines will spray some water drops out of the humidifier if you fill them up too high. You also run the risk of getting water back into the blower unit, so be careful to not overfill. If you wiggle the PRS1 tank around a little after your fill it, and before you put it back into the humidifier, it will automatically spill the water out if you've overfilled it more than a little bit.

While all humidifiers should be designed to be OK when the water runs out, it probably does add a little stress to the heating element. Nothing to panic over, but try to avoid it. I find the water starts to stink as I get down to the dregs and it will usually wake me up enough to either turn the heat off or fill the tank.

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archangle
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by archangle » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:15 pm

DiverCTHunter wrote:How are you filling the tank (pouring in through the air hole on top, removing tank lid & filling to line, etc...)

If you place the tank on a flat, level surface and squeeze the tab on the top of the tank, the lid should pop off and unhinge from the back. Once that's done, you should be able to fill it up to the "Max" line and re-install the lid without any water leaking out.
Respironics does recommend opening the tank to fill it.

If you study it and experiment a bit, you can pour the water in without opening it. You need to tilt it to one particular side to break the "air lock" and then you can pour water in the top hole. If you just try to pour it in without tilting, there's some trapped air that makes it difficult. If you overfill it, the excess water will pour out automatically through the air inlet hole when you sit in on a flat surface. Play with it over the sink for a while, and this should become second nature.

Always slosh the PRS1 tank around a little after you've filled and resealed it before you put it back in the machine. Better to spill any excess water somewhere other than inside the machine.

Also, lay it flat and check the water level against the fill marks.

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sleepyinmississippi
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by sleepyinmississippi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:48 pm

To DiverCTHunter,
I fill the tank through the air hole on top--I guess I should be taking out the tank and filling it up that way though.
Thanks to all who replied--I was mainly worried I did damage to this extremely expensive machine. Now I know how to avoid rainout and running out of water in the future.

Best,

Sleepyinmississippi

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Pugsy
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by Pugsy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:00 pm

DiverCTHunter wrote:Of course it would kill Respironics to post the manual online so I'll have to agree to disagree until I can get home & check.
Here is the online manual. I haven't bothered to read it.
http://www.directhomemedical.com/machin ... manual.pdf

FWIW...I don't remove the plastic lid...I just fill through the hole on top at a slight tilt then turn the tank so is level and check for water line. If close to black line I am good. I could remove the lid but I am lazy. Of course a few times I have made a mess on my bed or on the floor when I do this If it is too full when I level it out...I get water everywhere.

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archangle
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by archangle » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:18 pm

sleepyinmississippi wrote:To DiverCTHunter,
I fill the tank through the air hole on top--I guess I should be taking out the tank and filling it up that way though.
Thanks to all who replied--I was mainly worried I did damage to this extremely expensive machine. Now I know how to avoid rainout and running out of water in the future.

Best,

Sleepyinmississippi
Sorry but that sounds like you're filling the tank without removing it from the humidifier. I suspect that's not what you mean, but that would be a really bad idea. on a PRS1 machine.

FYI, here's a picture of the round white sticker that comes on the top of PRS1 humidifiers. If you zoom in, it shows you opening the tank to fill it, as does the manual. I agree with Pugsy, it's fine to pour water in the top as long as you take it out and sit it level afterwards and slosh it a bit to get any extra water out.

Image

BTW, the PRS1 "dry box" tank is a really clever design. As long as you don't overfill it, it's almost impossible to pour water out and have it go back up the air inlet hose into the blower unit. Water will pour out the top, but if it's inside the humidifier, the silicon seal will make all that water go out the hose, not back into the machine directly. If you overfill the tank, the excess water will immediately pour out as long as the tank is sitting level or if you move it around a bit.

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bucksbeek
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by bucksbeek » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:35 pm

I don't know if this is true or not, and actually if anyone knows I would like to know for myself and for sleepyinmississippi, but my techie told me that if there was a consistent leak or if I was breathing out of my mouth that I would use more water. I see you are using a nasal mask, so I'm curious as to whether you could be breathing out of your mouth at night. Anyone know if this information is correct?

sleepyinmississippi
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by sleepyinmississippi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:58 pm

To all:
Thanks again for such thorough responses to my posts.
Here are my responses to your questions/comments:
One response was: "Sorry but that sounds like you're filling the tank without removing it from the humidifier. I suspect that's not what you mean, but that would be a really bad idea. on a PRS1 machine." I do remove the humidifier from the CPAP (or blower device?) but I don't remove the tray within the humidifier--as I didn't know that was possible. But am I interpreting your comments correctly--do I need to remove the tray from the humidifier--and completely avoid filling the humidifier from the spout (or whatever it's called) on top of the humidifier?
Obviously, I need to read the online manual PUgsy listed (thanks, Pugsy, BTW.)
Also, regarding a 3-digit model number--the only 3 number I could find was under the CPAP where it says "REF 150P." Is there another number that I should look for?
Another CPAPTalker suggested perhaps I'm breathing out of my mouth. I will have to re-read my sleep study report--but I'm almost positive there was no mention of being a mouth-breather.
Okay--I think I responded to everyone's posts.
Please respond to my comments above at your earliest convenience. And thanks again for everyone's help!
--SleepyInMississippi

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Pugsy
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by Pugsy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:46 pm

sleepyinmississippi wrote:Also, regarding a 3-digit model number--the only 3 number I could find was under the CPAP where it says "REF 150P
They dispensed the most basic machine to you. The 150 is the model number. PR System One Plus CPAP...that's it...doesn't even have exhale relief or it would be model 250 and name is PR System One Plus CPAP with CFlex.

I don't think that there is even a choice for that machine in the equipment menu because cpap.com doesn't sell it.
The humidifier would be the PR System One Heated humidifier. The PR System One machine that you have is supplied with the default setting for the machine to use the new system one humidification system which typically uses less heat and less water.
It utilizes sensors in the machine to help evaluate how much humidity to add to the air going to your airway.
So depending on where you live and the ambient humidity in the bedroom the amount of water used can vary widely.

BUT if you are experiencing large leaks the machine will try to compensate for the leaks and more air will be used to try to maintain a therapeutic level of pressure...and all that extra air going over the water will cause the water to be used up more quickly.
Unfortunately your machine doesn't gather any data beyond hours of use....so there is no leak data to check to see if your water usage might be related to large leaks.

You might want to read this...especially the part near the bottom. Your machine is what we call a "brick"....no useful data can be gathered from that SD card. There's no way to evaluate leak at all. Now it may not matter to you...it's up to you to decide if you felt it is important to you. People can and do sleep through some pretty massive leaks where therapy is severely compromised.
http://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/
So my job is to tell you what you have...your choice whether you are satisfied with it or not regarding the lack of data or exhale relief.

You don't have to take the clear plastic lid off to add the water. Just got to be careful.
I remove the plastic tank....hold it up at eye level over my floor with a slight tilt and just pour water in through the hole...then I turn it so it is level and the water then runs down to where it needs to be and I check the fill line. Don't be afraid to fill it up to the black line (when level).
You can take the lid off...but it isn't necessary...but do remove the tank to add water so no chance of splashing or spilling some on the machine. If you fill it too much when you turn it so that it is level the water will run out a little hole on the tank and make a mess over the floor. When at a slight tilt the water flows in the sections of the tank a little better but you can't use the black line for fill limit until you make it level. I suggest doing it over the sink until you get a feel for how much is needed...that way no mess.

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debbiep54
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Re: running out of water in humidifier

Post by debbiep54 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:15 am

My machine seems to hardly use any water. so I am at the other end of your dilemma. i would think the humidifier would help w/ congestion but I have more congestion now than i have ever had in my life. Urgh.

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