How to determine length of apneas on sleepyhead

[49er]

Hi,

I keep reading that you can determine that length of the apneas but so far, I don't how to do this on sleepyhead. Is this possible to do with the DeVilbiss autopap?

I would appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks!

49er

[napstress]

To find the duration of events in SH, you can click on the Details tab. Then click on the Events tab. Then click on the little arrow to the left of the breathing event type. The number in parenthesis to the right of each event refers to the duration of that event.

Hope this helps!

[sleeptimeinNY]

Thank you! That was a question I had also.
Ruth

[Sir NoddinOff]

Here's another technique, which is more accurate, especially with tricky periodic breathing episodes and apneas that are linked together by very short interval of time.

You can highlight with your cursor on any of the SH graphs, the area where you think you were having a problem. Use the CTRL key (or left mouse key) and your cursor. I like to utilize the tidal volume and flow graphs together - things just look calmer and lower intensity when your sleep is going smoothly apnea-wise. Next scroll up to the top of SH (just above the flow rate graph) and you'll see the AHI calculated for only the short segment you selected with the cursor. Read the results and you will have the duration in minutes plus the AHI for the selected/boxed events only.

[archangle]

I believe the DeVilbiss doesn't record flow data. I don't know whether it lists the event duration or not in the detailed results.

On other machines, you can read it off the airflow waveform, but you don't have that on the DeVilbiss machines.

For instance, mine says

Obstructive apnea 1 event
#001: 10:00:03 (10)

At 10:00:03, I had a 10 second obstructive apnea.

[49er]

Thanks everybody for your responses.

Archangle, correct, unfortunately, I don't have flow data. It does list the event duration.

49er

[archangle]

Thanks everybody for your responses.

Archangle, correct, unfortunately, I don't have flow data. It does list the event duration.

49er

Glad to hear it lists duration. That is useful data. However, on my PRS1 or S9, the number listed for duration is often considerably longer than what I consider to be the real length of the apnea when I examine the flow graph.

I think jedimark was looking at hooking a cable to the DeVilbiss machine and reading out airflow waveforms realtime. However, that would, of course, take a cable, and hooking the computer to the machine while you sleep.

[snoozysue]

To find the duration of events in SH, you can click on the Details tab. Then click on the Events tab. Then click on the little arrow to the left of the breathing event type. The number in parenthesis to the right of each event refers to the duration of that event

Is the number in the brackets "seconds" as when I have been trying to calculate by zooming in on the graph the time looks longer that what is recorded in the brackets

[Pugsy]

Is the number in the brackets "seconds" as when I have been trying to calculate by zooming in on the graph the time looks longer that what is recorded in the brackets

ResMed machines actually do score event duration. The numbers in the parentheses for ResMed users are indeed event duration and if you looked at same reports with ResScan that is what you would find.

Respironics machines and the others don't record actual event duration. Instead there are some sort of "markers" (that is what Mark called them) and these are what are used in SleepyHead. I have no idea what "markers" are. I have looked at a lot of my own PR S1 events zoomed in real close and tried to count the seconds. Zoomed in that close makes it awfully hard to see the actual beginning and ending of the event so it is hard to get an "exact" second count. Note that sometimes with PR S1 machines the numbers in the parentheses are often under 10 and events aren't flagged unless they are 10 seconds long...so for PR S1 machines those aren't 8 second events...they are likely very close to 10 second events but the markers put it at 8.
The number in parentheses are real close to event duration though. Close enough that when I saw a 45 next to a hyponea that when I went to look at it zoomed in and manually counted the seconds...it was definitely a really long event and was at least 45 seconds duration. So while the numbers in parentheses aren't really technically event duration because the machine doesn't record it... they are very, very close and likely close enough for what we need. If it says (10) it will likely be fairly short and real close to 10 seconds. If it says (40) it is going to be obvious that it is a much longer event.

They are close enough that I am good with accepting them loosely as event duration. A couple of seconds here or there isn't a big deal. Remember SH doesn't evaluate the flow and flag the event...it is only reporting what the machine sensed and flagged.

[49er]

Thanks everybody for your responses.

Archangle, correct, unfortunately, I don't have flow data. It does list the event duration.

49er

Glad to hear it lists duration. That is useful data. However, on my PRS1 or S9, the number listed for duration is often considerably longer than what I consider to be the real length of the apnea when I examine the flow graph.

I think jedimark was looking at hooking a cable to the DeVilbiss machine and reading out airflow waveforms realtime. However, that would, of course, take a cable, and hooking the computer to the machine while you sleep.

That would be nice to have although it would be a royal pain in the neck trying to rearrange every thing so i could move the machine closer to the computer.

49er

[49er]

Respironics machines and the others don't record actual event duration. Instead there are some sort of "markers" (that is what Mark called them) and these are what are used in SleepyHead. I have no idea what "markers" are. I have looked at a lot of my own PR S1 events zoomed in real close and tried to count the seconds. Zoomed in that close makes it awfully hard to see the actual beginning and ending of the event so it is hard to get an "exact" second count. Note that sometimes with PR S1 machines the numbers in the parentheses are often under 10 and events aren't flagged unless they are 10 seconds long...so for PR S1 machines those aren't 8 second events...they are likely very close to 10 second events but the markers put it at 8.

Pugsy,

What is the average length of hypopneas and apneas? Mine seem to be no longer than 3 seconds so that is why I was asking.

[Pugsy]

What is the average length of hypopneas and apneas? Mine seem to be no longer than 3 seconds so that is why I was asking.

Is that what you are seeing in SleepyHead? If so then the numbers in parentheses aren't even close to event duration.
By universal definition they need to meet the 10 sec mark to be either an apnea or hyponea.
Devillbiss hasn't shortened the definition though I do think that there are ways to alter what it calls hyponea or apneas but you wouldn't have done that. Default standards are pretty universal 10 seconds with the variables maybe in % of reduction needed to meet a certain category.. Like ResMed might be 80% and Respironics 70% and another might be 90%.
The Intellipap is a whole different animal and I imagine that SleepyHead is counting some sort of marker but because of the Intellipap internal firmware it is not reading things in the same way that it reads the Resironics machines and that isn't even coming close to event duration.
Mark would be the person to explain better what is going on. Without the flow graphs (curse you DeVilbiss) we can't evaluate the event duration to see if maybe a "3" would equal a 10 or a 12 second event.

I have never seen a Devillbiss SleepyHead report.
I can assure you that if Devillbiss is flagging an apnea or hyponea it is going to be at least 10 seconds long so obviously those numbers in parentheses won't help you with event duration.
Mark's work on making SH work with Devillbiss and F & P machines came right at the time SH Beta was released. He didn't have much time with them and then he had his issues where he took some time off.

[archangle]

ResMed machines actually do score event duration. The numbers in the parentheses for ResMed users are indeed event duration and if you looked at same reports with ResScan that is what you would find.

Thanks for the clarification, Pugsy. That's an important point.

I'm also talking about the fact that, whether on PRS1 or S9, I can't figure out why the machine came up with that particular duration number. If it says "11" seconds, if I look on the waveform, I can see that I had some breathing disturbance, but nothing on it really looks like 11 seconds.

Maybe this is a good sign that my apnea is just borderline under treatment and it isn't "hard" clear cut "on and off" breathing. My breathing tends to sort of taper off slowly rather than completely stop.

This is yet another reason I think waveform data is so important. Even if I have a "scary" duration number, if I go look, I'm actually breathing somewhat during the time period in question.

I've also noticed that some of my "hypopneas" don't look like my airflow has actually dropped that much, they look like I was breathing heavier than normal for a while, and when my breathing dropped back to normal, it records a hypopnea.

[49er]

Thanks Pugsy for the clarification.

I am cursing myself for having purchased the Intellipap vs. the Resmed. Another post. So you're not the only one cursing.

I understand Mark is doing the best he can to make things work.

49er

What is the average length of hypopneas and apneas? Mine seem to be no longer than 3 seconds so that is why I was asking.

Is that what you are seeing in SleepyHead? If so then the numbers in parentheses aren't even close to event duration.
By universal definition they need to meet the 10 sec mark to be either an apnea or hyponea.
Devillbiss hasn't shortened the definition though I do think that there are ways to alter what it calls hyponea or apneas but you wouldn't have done that. Default standards are pretty universal 10 seconds with the variables maybe in % of reduction needed to meet a certain category.. Like ResMed might be 80% and Respironics 70% and another might be 90%.
The Intellipap is a whole different animal and I imagine that SleepyHead is counting some sort of marker but because of the Intellipap internal firmware it is not reading things in the same way that it reads the Resironics machines and that isn't even coming close to event duration.
Mark would be the person to explain better what is going on. Without the flow graphs (curse you DeVilbiss) we can't evaluate the event duration to see if maybe a "3" would equal a 10 or a 12 second event.

I have never seen a Devillbiss SleepyHead report.
I can assure you that if Devillbiss is flagging an apnea or hyponea it is going to be at least 10 seconds long so obviously those numbers in parentheses won't help you with event duration.
Mark's work on making SH work with Devillbiss and F & P machines came right at the time SH Beta was released. He didn't have much time with them and then he had his issues where he took some time off.

[Beckah54]

I have a DeVilbiss IntelliPap also and I do like so many things about it. The lack of flow graphs is NOT one of them. Doesn't the DeVilbiss record the information necessary to generate these reports?