Recommendations for cpaps

[-SWS]

LOL! Waverly!

It's when data is either misinterpreted or misrepresented that it is B.S. When data and the analytical method ingeneral are used properly, great social and technical feats happen. NASA on the moon? Good data, good method. Enron deceiving the public? Bad data, deceptive methods. Toxicology actuarials analyzed toward saving lives? Good data, good method. Data and the analytical method are as good as the methods and the intentions of those who deploy them.

And I agree with you: these message board anecdotes are a good thing.

[wading thru the muck!]

SWS,

Having read many of your previous posts on the other forums I'm aware of your analytical iconoclastic nature. No confession necessary here. As you continue your search for imperical cpap data keep in mind that when dealing with treating the human condition efficacy is never 100%. In human terms this means that "near perfect" still may cost a life. Even if we had this data you seek, the next newbie asking "what machine is best" may not get good results from the imperical "best". That said, we're left with all the factors of social dynamics to please or disappoint the prospective user.

Thanks for the great conversation!

[Irving]

And always remember to be vewy vewy carefull when dealing with those pesky DMEs. Your going thru the looking glass when you deal with them... LOL...Just ask Alice

[rested gal]

LOL! Well. Folks, I gotta tell you...SWS is my hero, plain and simple. He's the one who, with his brilliant analytical mind and generosity of spirit, figured out how to make my 420E gee and haw with my shallow breathing pattern, back when I took my first baby steps into cpap therapy. He did this by simply looking at some of my Silverlining data printouts. He didn't even have the same machine. He is a genius. A kind, kind man. I'd trust him with my life. I did, in a way.

Having read his excellent posts on the TAS message board for a year, I can't tell you how happy I was to see his posts appearing now on this message board, too. What a help he is to cpapers seeking technical information, insofar as anyone can glean from what the manufacturers let out or hint at. And not just technical stuff. I've seen him offer encouraging words in so many ways to so many.

I think SWS's mild cautionary statement about recommendations (as well as "thumbs down") about various products on these message boards is very important. A lot of us (I, included) tend to get very enthusiastic about a machine or mask that works well for us - and very down on something we try that doesn't. It's not fun at all to spend big bucks hoping "this will do it!" and have it not do the job. Those of us on here who use or try a machine and are stating our opinions pro and con are a drop in the bucket compared to the vast numbers out there who are using those same machines...most of them, regardless of the manufacturer, working fine for most people. A point that I've seen SWS make many times on several message boards is that there will always be a few people that any machine (brand or type) will fail to treat as well as another machine (or even other type of machine) might. But that for the most part, any of the major brands will treat most people just fine.

It's natural for one of the first questions asked by any person about to start on cpap to be: "What's the best machine?" We may each have our favorites. It's also natural for us to say what machine we're using and why we like it, or what machine we've tried and didn't like. But really most any of the major brand autopaps (and probably a good many of the lesser known ones) will deliver equally good treatment for almost everyone. I'd ponder more on which type of machine I needed or wanted...cpap? bilevel? autopap? a machine with C-Flex/Biflex?...rather than which brand. And I know who I'd be turning to for advice.

[-SWS]

Thanks, Wader, et al. I've enjoyed this discussion immensely.

Regarding efficacy and perfection. I agree with Wader that efficacy will never be 100% for any given AutoPAP, let alone across the board. Not only am I curious about how close to perfection CPAP and AutoPAP therapy might be.... but I am admittedly also curious about just how far from perfection current efficacy may be.

Alas, since no such data exists, much of what is said here and elsewhere on the Internet by patients like us will impact lives in no small way...

[-SWS]

I just reread this post and it occurs to me that some people might think that I implied CPAP.COM disporportionately "pitches" anything here. They do not!

Before many or most of the posters here received their OSA or other SDB diagnoses, I bought my original-model Remstar Auto from CPAP.COM. They provided me great service then, and they provided me fantastic service when my unit was up for warranty repair.

CPAP.COM will sell any and all products that are good without bias. Enough said from me---promise!

[bman]

chrisp

can you trust the machines

apparently your value is better with 420e

how can you be sure you are actually feeling better rather than just looking at the values

if I'm making all these machines I would try to make the values looking attractive to sell more of them ie resmed autoset would count me taking my mask off as an apnoiec episode whereas 420e may not do the same

sws: please help me with answers to my other posting when you helped me with my "spelling"

[-SWS]

Bman, you are correct. While the AutoPAP manufacturers don't deceptively score sleep events differently (IMO), they do score sleep events slightly different (fact). Thus if everything else were absolutely identical between AutoPAP models, sleep-event and treatment-wise,this one scoring difference alone would yield slightly different end-results on the overnight sleep charts.

Sorry for missing your post in the other thread, Bman. I will revisit that thread this evening if that's okay.

[Paul B]

-SWS, I've always thought that different manufacturer's algorithms might define apneas and hypopneas differently thereby making direct comparisons of AHI between machines more difficult. I have seen where one definition of hypopnea is 50% closure of the airway and another definition that says 30% closure.

Do you happen to know the count protocol for AHI between Resmed vs. Respironics vs. Puritan-Bennett?

Paul

[chrisp]

Bman, Its not only the AHI #s its also the whopping headache I wake with while using the Resmed. I wear my mask every night all night . Just wish the Resmed worked for me since its paid for . Why did it take over 2 years to figure this out..Like I said the Resmed broke and I used a 420E while waiting for the Spirits return..I felt uch better and the software proved it with the #s. Still getting 10-20 AHI with the Spirit.

Cheers,

Chris

[rested gal]

Chris, have you checked your private messages today?

[bman]

I am thinking about getting a spare apap machine like 420e

I am interested to know about your impression on why the 420e is more suitable for you in terms of your breathing ie your respiratory rate, any blocked nose, ?shallow breathing, mouth opening, sleep position etc. I guess I am interested to know about the clinical significance of which patient would suit the 420e more.

I am just curious

[WillSucceed]

bman wrote:

I am thinking about getting a spare apap machine like 420e

I am interested to know about your impression on why the 420e is more suitable for you in terms of your breathing ie your respiratory rate, any blocked nose, ?shallow breathing, mouth opening, sleep position etc. I guess I am interested to know about the clinical significance of which patient would suit the 420e more

I suspect that this is going to be a hard question to answer as all of us are different / have different breathing patterns. I think the "proof" is in trialing the different machines so as to find the one(s) that give you the best treatment.

I've heard the "I can't afford to rent a machine" complaint and I am sympathetic to it. I paid out of pocket to rent the different machines because I feel that my quality of sleep / quality of life is really worth the $ that I paid for rental. I wanted to purchase the machine that felt best to me regardless of opinions of others.

Although I fully agree with Rested Gal and -SWS that most people are going to get good treatment from all of the machines, I wanted to be sure that I was getting the best machine for me and trialing all of them was the only way to be sure.

I found that after sleeping with the RemStar Auto I just did not feel as rested as I did with the Spirit and the 420E. The data produced by the software from each of the machines was similar (RemStar pressure overall was slightly lower) but HOW I FELT was different. I think that the subjective component is more telling than the objective data.

For me, spending some cash to rent the machines for a trial period was well worth it in that I don't now question whether or not I bought the machine that gives me best treatment --> I know I bought the right machine. Moral of the story? Try before you buy.