OT - Statins and You

[GregCavalier]

Not to keep plugging the trackyourplaque website, but... that entire program is based on doing a low cost calcium heart scan. You get an actual number which correlates to coronary plaque, and is probably. Got a low number, relax. Got a high number, time to take it seriously.

[neverbetter]

Take the vitamin called CoQ10 if you take Statins.

[VikingGnome]

I've been on a statin for a least 20 years and simvastatin for at least 10 years. There is strong family history of heart disease in my family (two sisters have already died due to heart disease--one at 55 and the other at age 50 and my father and both grandfathers died young of heart disease). My doctor first had me try "Red Rice Yeast", a natural product known to lower cholesterol. But it didn't get my Total cholesterol below 200. My checkups the last 5 years my cholesterol has been below 140 with LDL above 45 and HDL under 100. That's exactly where my doctor wants them to be.

I had a positive excercise test with contrast afterwards indicating poor perfusion in the area of anterior descending artery 10 years ago. I had a coronary angiogram at a young age for a female and already showed blockage of anterior descending but not serious enough to put in a stent yet.

Continued use of a statin is a no brainer for me. The more I can do to slow down the process of plaque formation, the longer I will live.

[edm_msu]

There are many books on the subject. I searched "Cholesterol Myths" at Amazon and 299 results came up under "Books". I read "The Cholesterol Myths: Exposing the Fallacy That Saturated Fat and Cholesterol Cause Heart Disease" many years ago. From what I remember, the drug companies are grabbing anything that could possibly support their case. And overlooking many tests and studies that show that high cholesterol does not cause heart disease. Doctors must follow since it is accepted that high cholesterol causes heart disease. I used to discuss this with my doctor without any success. Now I just say that I will not take statins and leave it at that. Drug companies have made a LOT of money from a drug that must be taken for the rest of a customer's life.
Please don't follow my decision. This is something to decide for yourself.

[Janknitz]

If you make the personal decision to stop statins, be very careful not to quit them cold turkey--this can cause nasty side effects. You must taper them off gradually. Consult with your doctor or a pharmacist on how best to do this.

I second the endorsement of the "Track Your Plaque" website. It has a wealth of very good information about cholesterol and statins, but mind the dates on the posts. Dr. Davis "evolved" from one who recommended against saturated fats in the beginning to someone who now recognizes that they are not harmful and are in fact beneficial. If you read some of his older posts (2006 - 2008) you will find him advising people to avoid saturated fats, later he heartily endorses them. Personally, I think it's great that he keeps learning and updating his own knowledge base, he's not mired in the tradition for tradition's sake.

BTW, probably the best thing you can do for your cholesterol levels is add fish oil. To see positive changes you need at least 1200 mg of EPA and DHA combined daily (be sure to read the nutritional label on the bottle for the exact amount, not the front of the label which doesn't have the actual amount the capsule provides). Most people will see significant increases in HDL (good cholesterol) and decreases in Triglycerides (precursors to small, dense LDL which is the bad kind). I like the Trader Joe's brand fish oils--no burps, no smells. My numbers are great (79 HDL, 71 trigs) since I started fish oil.

I see a lot of people here worrying about their total cholesterol and trying to keep it below 200, but total cholesterol is not very helpful. The key is ratios between triglycerides and HDL. Also, the total count of LDL isn't that meaningful either, especially if you get your triglycerides down (which is highly desireable). Once triglycerides fall below 100, the formula used to calculate LDL becomes inaccurate. But the lower the triglycerides, the more likely your bad LDL (small dense particles as opposed to large, fluffy particles) is decreasing as well, EVEN THOUGH YOUR TOTAL CHOLESTEROL AND LDL MAY GO UP!

See: http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/chole ... rimer.html for very good, plain English explanations.

[edm_msu]

Dr. Mercola disagrees with many accepted medical beliefs. He claims to be the "The World's #1 Natural Health Website": http://www.mercola.com/. Searching for Cholesterol will bring up articles.

[VVV]

VVV ...You can get a "non-flush" niacin too. Next time you are in the pharmacy take a look at the types of niacin they have, I'm sure one of them will be non-flush. I used to take it, but my system is rather odd and will get used to any drugs after awhile and will no longer work.

Nan, If you do a little research you will find that no scientific study of non-flushing niacin (inositol hexaniacinate) has found positive effect on lipids. It is worthless for this purpose and that is why it did not work for you.

[Captain_Midnight]

Two words..."fish oil". Much safer than statins.

[VVV]

Two words..."fish oil". Much safer than statins.

I take one fish oil capsule daily but wonder what it does good for me???

One doctor has said if you are relying on fish oil for heart health you have almost zero scientific evidence supporting your actions.

I heard another one say you need to take three of those big capsules daily to make a significant difference.

Just asking.

[HoseCrusher]

I would say that your first doctor hasn't kept up with the current research, and your second doctor is exaggerating a little...

I believe heart health can be improved by taking something like 800 mg of Omega-3 EPA along with about 500 mg of Omega-3 DHA. That works out to about 2 capsules a day.

You may suggest to your first doctor to contact the Scripps Institute in CA.

[Janknitz]

I take one fish oil capsule daily but wonder what it does good for me???
One doctor has said if you are relying on fish oil for heart health you have almost zero scientific evidence supporting your actions.
I heard another one say you need to take three of those big capsules daily to make a significant difference.

Well, it seems like the way to tell would be to do a cholesterol panel, looking closely at YOUR HDL and triglycerides, because that's where fish oil is supposed to help. If your HDL is under 60 and your triglycerides are way over 60, then the one fish oil capsule a day certainly is not doing enough. Try upping the dose (Dr. Davis of Wheat Belly recommends 1200 mg total of DHA and EPA combined) and run the panel again in 3 months to see if there's an improvement. If there's no significant improvement (keeping in mind other possible factors like diet or medications) in that time period, then don't keep wasting money on fish oils.

My HDL and trigs are GREAT. I can't say for sure if it's the fish oil or not, since I've also cut the carbs (and cutting carbs is correlated with decreased triglycerides in particular), but I'm not changing a thing since I'm getting good results. And yes, I take 3 big capsules a day. They are soft and smooth and easy to swallow, no big deal even for my narrow little throat structure. And I figure I've already saved what I spend on them in fewer insurance co-pays for doctor's visits and medications.

[purple]

At my last appointment to see my surgeon after open heart surgery in 2001 the surgeon pointed to the statin drug and said he believed in those drugs. However, they do have side effects. including more arthritis pain. Crestor is supposed to be the one with the least side effects, and is still on patent and very expensive. beyond my budget.

[Janknitz]

A lot more information has come out about the efficacy (or lack thereof) of statins in the past 11 years. One thing they have found is that statins do have an anti-inflammatory effect, but it is not huge and comes with a lot of side effects.

Eating an anti-inflammatory diet (low carb, no grains, plenty of omega 3's from clean, grass fed animals, etc) can have a much more profound effect. If you take statins you should consider dietary changes, too, because statins dont raise HDL or lower triglycerides significantly. Cardiovascular disease boils down to inflammation, and when all is said and done, you have the power to reduce that in your hands with every forkful you put in your mouth.

[wolftracker]

The space doc is pretty much against statin.

Check out the website

http://www.spacedoc.com/

i am not a Doctor, just decide what I will do for myself

my 02
wolf

[dtsm]

Prescribing statins to anyone with a total cholesterol of over 200 and/or an LDL of over 100 has become the "standard of care". Doctors fear getting sued if they don't prescribe statin drugs and a patient later has a cardiovascular event.

This is absolutely false! If your total cholesterol exceeds 200, the standard practice is to recommend control through diet and exercise. The use of statins or any other medication is not the first line of treatment.

Doctors prescribe statins even if HDL is high, triglycerides are low (these ratios turn out to be much better predictors of cardiovascular disease and risk factors), and the patient shows absolutely no sign of heart disease.

Again, false. If your HDL is high and LDL is low, with a favorable ratio, most docs will still recommend diet and exercise. And triglycerides is a completely different animal.

I am not advocating casual use of statins or comparables. Like everything else, there is a time and place when they are effective.

PS - NEJM article that was just published: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE ... ?query=TOC