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Jay Aitchsee
 
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:36 pm

DreamStalker wrote:Just another marketing scam. Big pharma drug patents on statins are expiring and they need another cash cow class of drugs to milk the fake war on "cholesterol causes heart disease" meme.


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. $14000 to prevent a subsequent heart attack in 1 out of 100 seems a bit much. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any reduction in mortality or other cardiovascular complications requiring care. Besides, I can't believe that lowering LDL into the 30's won't be without serious side effects in many, though the authors of the study said not.

Thanks for the update on the potatoes. I kind of gave up on the RS thing. I've gone back to just eating "whole" foods, with some exceptions, of course. I avoid all refined carbs as much as possible and I rarely eat "high starch" vegetables such, as potatoes. Oatmeal is out. I don't try to eat "low carb", but I suppose I do - compared to the average American - and I'm not afraid of fats.

I was concerned that my A1C was rising, my fasting glucose was over 100 and my triglycerides were over 150. Now, by watching my diet and exercising for 9 months or so, my AIC has held at 5.6, my fasting glucose is 80-90, and my TG's have come down to below 80.

One thing that I have been careful about in the last few months is to avoid artificial sweeteners. In the past, even though I "knew" artificial sweeteners probably were not good, I would put a teaspoon of Splenda in my coffee without thinking too much about it. Now, If I have to have something sweet, I use honey. I wouldn't be surprised if the Splenda caused my fasting blood sugar to be high. I consider honey only marginally better than sugar and both should be avoided, but either is probably better than Splenda.

And speaking of Splenda, there may not be any connection, but since I've avoided Splenda, I have increased my sleep time by over 30 minutes. In reviewing my sleep history, I noticed a time in the past when I went without Splenda for some time and my sleep increased during that time, too. Like I said, could be coincidence, but...

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Janknitz
 
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Janknitz on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:39 pm

Here's Dr. Marty Kendall's take on all the squacking about Repatha: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/03/2 ... en-or-not/

•The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group was 251
•The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the placebo group was 240
•So, 11 more people died of cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group

The overall mortality data
•The total number of, overall, deaths in the Repatha group was 444
•The total number of, overall, deaths in the placebo group was 426
•So, there were 18 more deaths in those taking Repatha.

The differences here are not large enough to be statistically significant. However, there were more, not less, deaths in the Repatha group, and more, not less, CV deaths. This study was also terminated early, which is extremely bad news for any clinical trial, and casts enormous doubt on any findings. It was supposed to last four years, but was stopped at 2.2 years. Why? Were the mortality curves heading rapidly in the wrong direction.


Once again, drug companies conflate lower cholesterol with lower risk. It AIN'T so.
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Jay Aitchsee
 
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:28 pm

Janknitz wrote:Here's Dr. Marty Kendall's take on all the squacking about Repatha: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/03/2 ... en-or-not/

•The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group was 251
•The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the placebo group was 240
•So, 11 more people died of cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group

The overall mortality data
•The total number of, overall, deaths in the Repatha group was 444
•The total number of, overall, deaths in the placebo group was 426
•So, there were 18 more deaths in those taking Repatha.

The differences here are not large enough to be statistically significant. However, there were more, not less, deaths in the Repatha group, and more, not less, CV deaths. This study was also terminated early, which is extremely bad news for any clinical trial, and casts enormous doubt on any findings. It was supposed to last four years, but was stopped at 2.2 years. Why? Were the mortality curves heading rapidly in the wrong direction.

Once again, drug companies conflate lower cholesterol with lower risk. It AIN'T so.


Thanks, Jan. So, I guess we can put those screaming headlines proclaiming the benefits of Repatha into the category of "fake news"!

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DreamStalker
 
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby DreamStalker on Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:36 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote:I've gone back to just eating "whole" foods, with some exceptions, of course. I avoid all refined carbs as much as possible and I rarely eat "high starch" vegetables such, as potatoes. Oatmeal is out. I don't try to eat "low carb", but I suppose I do - compared to the average American - and I'm not afraid of fats.

..... One thing that I have been careful about in the last few months is to avoid artificial sweeteners. In the past, even though I "knew" artificial sweeteners probably were not good, I would put a teaspoon of Splenda in my coffee without thinking too much about it. Now, If I have to have something sweet, I use honey. I wouldn't be surprised if the Splenda caused my fasting blood sugar to be high. I consider honey only marginally better than sugar and both should be avoided, but either is probably better than Splenda.

And speaking of Splenda, there may not be any connection, but since I've avoided Splenda, I have increased my sleep time by over 30 minutes. In reviewing my sleep history, I noticed a time in the past when I went without Splenda for some time and my sleep increased during that time, too....


Honey is fine if you eat local organic sources. Local honey can provide added immune system benefits for those who suffer from seasonal allergies.

It appears to me that if you want to live a mostly sedentary lifestyle (like typical modern westerners), you're better off with a low-carb diet. Unfortunately, as we get older we also tend to become more sedentary.

However, at the other end of the spectrum, a high-carb diet requires a very physically active lifestyle. This recent study of the "Healthiest hearts in the world" found in the indigenous Tsimane people of the Bolivian rain forest with a high carb diet walk "16,000 to 17,000 steps every single day". The average human stride length is about 30 inches. Even if we assume shorter 20-inch strides for steep terrains, that is over 5 miles per day ... on flat ground, easily 7+ miles per day, 7 days per week. How many westerners walk 7 miles per day every day?

Regardless of your physical activity level, the key strategy to a longer and healthy life is to avoid refined/processed foods and instead eat "fresh" organic (or better quality) whole unprocessed foods while maximizing your physical activity as best you can.
Thanks Snoredog, GoofyUT, rested gal, GoofProof, Wulfman, NightHawkeye, snoregirl and all of the others.
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Jay Aitchsee
 
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:51 pm

DreamStalker wrote:Regardless of your physical activity level, the key strategy to a longer and healthy life is to avoid refined/processed foods and instead eat "fresh" organic (or better quality) whole unprocessed foods while maximizing your physical activity as best you can.

+1

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ChicagoGranny
 
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby ChicagoGranny on Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:32 pm

DreamStalker wrote:organic (or better quality)


Why did you add the "or" phrase? You know that organic foods are no more nutritious than foods grown by traditional farming methods?

You might also want to look at the environmental impact. Soil health is better with traditional no-till methods as compared to organic farming.

Yield per acre is also higher with traditional methods. This means more forests must be cleared and more wetlands must be destroyed to produce the same about of food using organic methods as compared to traditional methods.

Someday, the organic scam will collapse under its own hubris.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby DreamStalker on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:21 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:organic (or better quality)


Why did you add the "or" phrase? You know that organic foods are no more nutritious than foods grown by traditional farming methods?

You might also want to look at the environmental impact. Soil health is better with traditional no-till methods as compared to organic farming.

Yield per acre is also higher with traditional methods. This means more forests must be cleared and more wetlands must be destroyed to produce the same about of food using organic methods as compared to traditional methods.

Someday, the organic scam will collapse under its own hubris.


Why? Because I am indeed aware that organic is not necessarily the best quality.

What the organic label does provide (at least in regulatory theory) over typical food from your local grocer is free of GMOs and big corporate agriculture toxic chemicals, drugs, hormones, and other additives. NOT necessarily better "nutrition". In other words .... "traditional" farming methods are basically "organic" farming methods. Unfortunately, many people confuse modern "corporate" methods as "traditional".

You might want to click on the permaculture link in my user signature area to learn more about "beyond organic" so that someday, some people will learn that there are methods far superior (or better quality) to even "traditional" (or organic) farming methods.

For now, unless you have access to traditional no-till or better quality permaculture food .... stick to organic food from your local grocer or farmer's market. Avoid the toxic chemicals, drugs, hormones, and GMOs.
Thanks Snoredog, GoofyUT, rested gal, GoofProof, Wulfman, NightHawkeye, snoregirl and all of the others.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby ChicagoGranny on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:59 pm

DreamStalker wrote:free of GMOs


Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby DreamStalker on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:25 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:free of GMOs


Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?


Google is your friend ... when it's not spying on you. :shock:

Can you search ... "GMO corn study"? :roll:

C'mon granny! I knows you're smart enough to do your own research. :wink:
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby palerider on Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:00 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:free of GMOs


Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?

how about a hazard of doing it 'the old fashioned way'?

http://boingboing.net/2013/03/25/the-ca ... otato.html

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby ChicagoGranny on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:57 am

palerider wrote:how about a hazard of doing it 'the old fashioned way'?

http://boingboing.net/2013/03/25/the-ca ... otato.html


Yes, that is a good example of breeding plants by the centuries-old method resulting in a plant that is not healthy for human consumption. The old-fashioned methods of plant breeding are traditional breeding, chemical mutagenesis and nuclear radiation mutagenesis. All these are haphazard methods - you never know what the end result will be. Hundreds of genes are changed, and the result is often unsatisfactory.

On the other hand, genetic engineering changes only one or two genes. The outcome is easily predicted.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby ChicagoGranny on Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:04 am

DreamStalker wrote:
ChicagoGranny wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:free of GMOs


Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?


Google is your friend ... when it's not spying on you. :shock:

Can you search ... "GMO corn study"? :roll:

C'mon granny! I knows you're smart enough to do your own research. :wink:


You made the claim, it's up to you to provide the evidence. But, there is no genetically engineered food on the market that is less nutritious or less safe than its corresponding traditionally-bred food.


DreamStalker wrote:Can you search ... "GMO corn study"? :roll:


I am very well familiar with the Seralini study. It has been totally discredited, and it was retracted - https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... to-cancer/

Don't fall for junk science!

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby DreamStalker on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:16 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:
ChicagoGranny wrote:
DreamStalker wrote:free of GMOs


Can you provide an example of a food that is harmful because it was developed using genetic engineering techniques?


Google is your friend ... when it's not spying on you. :shock:

Can you search ... "GMO corn study"? :roll:

C'mon granny! I knows you're smart enough to do your own research. :wink:


You made the claim, it's up to you to provide the evidence. But, there is no genetically engineered food on the market that is less nutritious or less safe than its corresponding traditionally-bred food.


DreamStalker wrote:Can you search ... "GMO corn study"? :roll:


I am very well familiar with the Seralini study. It has been totally discredited, and it was retracted - https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... to-cancer/

Don't fall for junk science!


Well eat it up Granny! Eat it all up then! ... cuz I just knew you would. :roll: :roll:

In fact you can have all the GMO I ain't gonna eat just so YOU can have more of it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

You wanted evidence? :roll: :roll: You really didn't think I wuz going to waste my time trying to teach an old dog any new tricks did ya? LOL :lol: :lol: :D
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Janknitz on Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:14 pm

So far there's no evidence that GMO's are inherently harmful on their own, and that's not at all what I am worried about.

What I AM worried about is the fact that most GMO's used in the US were developed to be resistant to herbicides and pesticides so they could use more of them in the production of agricultural products to supposedly increase yield (there is evidence that crop yield is not necessarily better in many cases, and then there's the rise in "superbugs" that are resistant to these herbicides and pesticides so they are using more and stronger ones as time goes on). So those herbicides and pesticides are in our food supply, in our soil, our water, and our air. You may disagree on whether or not these pesticides and herbicides are harmful or not--not unlike decades of denial that smoking caused lung and other cancers, among other things. I'm choosing to minimize my own use as a guinea pig.

We haven't studied things like what pesticides and herbicides do to the soil microbiomes that feed our own healthy gut flora. It may be that there isn't direct injury from pesticides and herbicides to humans, but the indirect harm to our soils may have profound effects on our health by having an effect on our own gut flora. We see significant rises in autoimmune disease and neurological impairments--is that related directly or indirectly to the increased use of pesticides and herbicides? Some studies suggest it is.

So while the jury is out, I'm not volunteering as a guinea pig. That's my reason for choosing organic food with minimal processing and packaging. Call me silly or stupid if you want, it will take decades to know who is right. And I don't really care if I'm wrong as I see no harm in eating as close to the way my grandparents ate--my paternal great grandmother lived to be 104 and she was independent and had all her faculties until the day she died.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby 49er on Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:10 am

Janknitz wrote: We see significant rises in autoimmune disease and neurological impairments--is that related directly or indirectly to the increased use of pesticides and herbicides? Some studies suggest it is.


That could also be due to adverse reactions to psych meds, fluoroquinolone antibiotics and other meds that don't get acknowledged in the medical community.

I think organic food tastes alot better than non-organic items. But I am not convinced the benefits are worth paying all that extra money.

Back to the topic - h-ll will freeze over before I ever take a statin.

49er

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