OT - Statins and You

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:24 pm

DreamStalker wrote:If you don't have a chest-strap type HR monitor, a fairly good way to determine if you're in the Maffetone aerobic zone is to make sure that you're able to comfortably breathe only through your nose...
The purpose of the HIT weight training is metabolic in addition to building/maintaining strength and muscle mass. HIT weight training is performed such that you completely fatigue muscles within a window of 60 to 90 seconds for each exercise....
As for legumes and fruit, they too add to the daily accrued total of carb to glucose intake...
Thanks for the tips DS, I'm going to look further into HIT weight training. I don't have a chest strap, but I kind of do the Maffetone thing now, without knowing the specifics. My rides average about an hour or maybe a little longer and I try to ride into the wind outbound while maintaining a speed that requires heavy nose but not mouth breathing. I know in advance that speed would be about 15mph, no wind, so I have a target to shoot for. On the inbound leg, I just try to maintain at least 15mph. This isn't static, I've got about 2200 miles on this bike and when I started my target was 13, so there's been some steady improvement. As for the legumes and fruit, yes if my TG doesn't come down, they're next.
Janknitz wrote:...Ideally you want to get trigs down, HDL up. That is an indicator of good quality LDL (large and "fluffy") regardless of number. It also means that inflammation and insulin resistance are low and THAT's what you want. LDL-C is pretty irrelevant unless you soar into the FH range...
Right, Jan, I agree and that's why I said I would give up LDL for TG. I know I can get my TG down through diet. I also know I can raise my HDL by increasing my percentage of saturated fats, and exercise, but only so far. If you recall some years ago (2012), I did have an NMR which indicated my percentage of small LDL p was higher than desired. After that, I took steps to raise my HDL and lower my TG and was successful in lowering my TG, but not so much with HDL. I did bring it up, from low 30's into mid 40's, but that seemed to be about the upper limit without trying medication which I didn't want to do. I did well for about 3 years until too many cruises and vacations got the better of me. You know - "one piece of cake won't hurt". But of course, one leads to another with ice cream and there you go. And here I am, back to work at it. Thanks for your help.

Interestingly and anecdotally, I took my lunch before meal BG a bit ago and it was only 100. That's low for me, my fasting BG is usually about 106. At first, I wondered if it could be the oatmeal I gave up, but probably not. I haven't taken many pre prandial tests and it could be normal for me while my morning fasting BG runs a little higher.

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:00 pm

So DreamStalker, did you do the potato salad test, yet?

I have tested the oatmeal. Each test consisted of 1/3 cup dry rolled oats and 2/3 cup water prepared as follows:

Cooked rolled oats eaten warm raises my I hr. postprandial BG to an average of about 142, returning to normal at 2 hrs.

Cold soaked rolled oats (1 part oats, two parts water refrigerated over night) eaten cold raises my BG to an average of about 135 after 1 hr. returning to normal at 2 (maybe some RS action).

Cold soaked rolled oats microwaved 1 minute (which is boiling for a few seconds) eaten warm raised my BG to 150! No 2 hr. test.

No more oatmeal for me.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by palerider » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:42 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote:So DreamStalker, did you do the potato salad test, yet?

I have tested the oatmeal. Each test consisted of 1/3 cup dry rolled oats and 2/3 cup water prepared as follows:

Cooked rolled oats eaten warm raises my I hr. postprandial BG to an average of about 142, returning to normal at 2 hrs.

Cold soaked rolled oats (1 part oats, two parts water refrigerated over night) eaten cold raises my BG to an average of about 135 after 1 hr. returning to normal at 2 (maybe some RS action).

Cold soaked rolled oats microwaved 1 minute (which is boiling for a few seconds) eaten warm raised my BG to 150! No 2 hr. test.

No more oatmeal for me.
ISTR rolled oats are the worst, steel cut are less bad.

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Jay Aitchsee
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:42 pm

palerider wrote:ISTR rolled oats are the worst, steel cut are less bad.
Yes, but rolled oats supposedly have one of the highest levels of resistant starch of commonly consumed foods. Resistant Starches are supposed not to cause blood glucose spikes and are good for colon health among other things. Problem is, it looks like the oats have to be consumed dry (at least for me) to maintain the starch content in a resistant form. In some foods, like potato, the starch is in resistant form prior to cooking, changes to non resistant with cooking, but then retrogrades to resistant when cooled. So, supposedly, one could eat potatoes raw or cooled and gain the benefit of resistant starch.

Personally, I would rather eat raw potatoes than raw oats, rolled or steel cut. But I like eggs better than either, so that's what I'm going with

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:23 am

Here's an interesting article about naturally occurring statins, generally from fermentation processes... it's based on a small sample group but is noteworthy.

https://www.luckyvitamin.com/HealthLibr ... c/~default

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:20 pm

Sir NoddinOff wrote:Here's an interesting article about naturally occurring statins, generally from fermentation processes... it's based on a small sample group but is noteworthy.

https://www.luckyvitamin.com/HealthLibr ... c/~default
Interesting. I hope they are not "natural statins". Statins lower cholesterol by interfering with a normal and very critical metabolic pathway known as the Mevalonate pathway. http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2013/10/how- ... at-a-time/

Hopefully, what these foods do is enhance the metabolism, not suppress it as statins do. As fermented foods, one thing they all have in common is Vitamin K2. I supplement Vitamin K2 because it's also a good calcium regulator in the body--keeping calcium in your bones and not in your arteries.

No surprise that cultures that eat a lot of fermented foods traditionally have lower levels of cardiovascular disease, generally speaking.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:58 am

The headline: "New injectable drug, evolocumab, reduces heart attack risk by 20%"
http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/healtht ... spartanntp
The Study wrote: evolocumab significantly reduced the risk of the key secondary composite end point of cardiovascular death, myocardial infarction, or stroke. The key secondary end point occurred in 816 patients (5.9%) in the evolocumab group and in 1013 patients (7.4%)
What it means (my interpretation): The number of patients suffering subsequent heart attacks or strokes with this treatment compared to a placebo was reduced from 7 per hundred to 6.

Furthermore,
The Study wrote: In terms of individual outcomes, evolocumab had no observed effect on cardiovascular mortality...
[with] no observed effect on the rates of hospitalization for unstable angina, cardiovascular death or hospitalization for worsening heart failure, or death from any cause
The cost: $14000 per year

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by DreamStalker » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:33 am

Jay Aitchsee wrote:The headline: "New injectable drug, evolocumab, reduces heart attack risk by 20%"
http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/healtht ... spartanntp
The Study wrote: evolocumab significantly reduced the risk of the key secondary composite end point of cardiovascular death, myocardial infarction, or stroke. The key secondary end point occurred in 816 patients (5.9%) in the evolocumab group and in 1013 patients (7.4%)
What it means (my interpretation): The number of patients suffering subsequent heart attacks or strokes with this treatment compared to a placebo was reduced from 7 per hundred to 6.

Furthermore,
The Study wrote: In terms of individual outcomes, evolocumab had no observed effect on cardiovascular mortality...
[with] no observed effect on the rates of hospitalization for unstable angina, cardiovascular death or hospitalization for worsening heart failure, or death from any cause
The cost: $14000 per year
I listened to one of the researchers interviewed on NPR yesterday and he noted that mortality rates were not lowered because it was only a 2-year clinical study .... so to me, that means they also don't know the more harmful side effects of the new class of drugs either. He said he was "confident" that with further study, they could reduce mortality rates.

Just another marketing scam. Big pharma drug patents on statins are expiring and they need another cash cow class of drugs to milk the fake war on "cholesterol causes heart disease" meme.

Just stop eating insulinemic and inflammatory foods and move your body intensely on a frequent basis. Use the $14000 per year cost savings on high quality food and gym membership instead.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by DreamStalker » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:14 am

Jay Aitchsee wrote:So DreamStalker, did you do the potato salad test, yet?

I have tested the oatmeal. Each test consisted of 1/3 cup dry rolled oats and 2/3 cup water prepared as follows:

Cooked rolled oats eaten warm raises my I hr. postprandial BG to an average of about 142, returning to normal at 2 hrs.

Cold soaked rolled oats (1 part oats, two parts water refrigerated over night) eaten cold raises my BG to an average of about 135 after 1 hr. returning to normal at 2 (maybe some RS action).

Cold soaked rolled oats microwaved 1 minute (which is boiling for a few seconds) eaten warm raised my BG to 150! No 2 hr. test.

No more oatmeal for me.
Yes. I did eventually do the potato salad test and it surprisingly did not spike my glucose levels as I thought it would (sorry I didn't come back to report back then). I used Yukon Gold and Red potatoes boiled and then chilled in frig over night. In AM I added the dressing mix (whatever low-carb veggies are available in frig at time) + vinaigrette + tumeric powder, sea salt, black pepper .... and BACON! Glucose max was under 105 around 30 minutes (back under 100 within a couple of hours) after a large serving meal (about 4 cups) which kept me in full satiety for about 24 hours. I'm sure you could add organic mayo and/or mustard instead of vinaigrette.

I also got similar glucose response with frozen "organic" potato puffs (tater tots) stir fried with bacon pieces (plus rendered fat) and other low-carb veggies (onions, peppers, celery, etc.) into a potato hash and then allowed to cool to room temperature plus some chilled guacamole .... Mmmmmm . The trick I think is to cook the tater puffs just enough to thaw out a bit and break apart, which leaves them in the resistant starch state.

When I oven baked the same brand tater puffs .... I got a massive glucose spike (around 180's) ... even after allowing them to cool to room temps. The baking must have ruined the resistant starch state. I don't know. Maybe I over-baked them as they were crunchy on the outside. But I like my stir fried hash version better anyway.

As for oatmeal. No matter what kind or how I cook oatmeal .... always a glucose spike around 140 -150 ... but stays high for several hours.

Also ... make sure you only use "organic" potatoes to insure they are not the GMO potatoes (very bad no matter how they are cooked/eaten).

U.S. approves 3 more types of Simplot GMO potatoes for sale this year

If you want to avoid genetically modified spuds, these tips can help.
Beware of the brand names Ranger Russet, Russet Burbank, and Atlantic
Look for merits on the label like “reduced bruising” and “fewer black spots”
Look for any reference or link to the J.R. Simplot Company
Look for the word “innate” on the label
Buy organic potatoes whenever possible
Look for the “Non-GMO Project Verified” label (Wisconsin Healthy Grown is one brand that has this seal)
Consider buying Yukon Gold or a more rare variety
Be leery of processed food containing potatoes, like frozen fries, tater tots, and chips. (Kettle Chips are non-GMO verified) Buy organic if you must get processed potatoes.
Restaurants may also be likely to use GMO potatoes since they don’t brown as easily as regular potatoes

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:36 pm

DreamStalker wrote:Just another marketing scam. Big pharma drug patents on statins are expiring and they need another cash cow class of drugs to milk the fake war on "cholesterol causes heart disease" meme.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. $14000 to prevent a subsequent heart attack in 1 out of 100 seems a bit much. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any reduction in mortality or other cardiovascular complications requiring care. Besides, I can't believe that lowering LDL into the 30's won't be without serious side effects in many, though the authors of the study said not.

Thanks for the update on the potatoes. I kind of gave up on the RS thing. I've gone back to just eating "whole" foods, with some exceptions, of course. I avoid all refined carbs as much as possible and I rarely eat "high starch" vegetables such, as potatoes. Oatmeal is out. I don't try to eat "low carb", but I suppose I do - compared to the average American - and I'm not afraid of fats.

I was concerned that my A1C was rising, my fasting glucose was over 100 and my triglycerides were over 150. Now, by watching my diet and exercising for 9 months or so, my AIC has held at 5.6, my fasting glucose is 80-90, and my TG's have come down to below 80.

One thing that I have been careful about in the last few months is to avoid artificial sweeteners. In the past, even though I "knew" artificial sweeteners probably were not good, I would put a teaspoon of Splenda in my coffee without thinking too much about it. Now, If I have to have something sweet, I use honey. I wouldn't be surprised if the Splenda caused my fasting blood sugar to be high. I consider honey only marginally better than sugar and both should be avoided, but either is probably better than Splenda.

And speaking of Splenda, there may not be any connection, but since I've avoided Splenda, I have increased my sleep time by over 30 minutes. In reviewing my sleep history, I noticed a time in the past when I went without Splenda for some time and my sleep increased during that time, too. Like I said, could be coincidence, but...

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:39 pm

Here's Dr. Marty Kendall's take on all the squacking about Repatha: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/03/2 ... en-or-not/
•The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group was 251
•The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the placebo group was 240
•So, 11 more people died of cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group

The overall mortality data
•The total number of, overall, deaths in the Repatha group was 444
•The total number of, overall, deaths in the placebo group was 426
•So, there were 18 more deaths in those taking Repatha.

The differences here are not large enough to be statistically significant. However, there were more, not less, deaths in the Repatha group, and more, not less, CV deaths. This study was also terminated early, which is extremely bad news for any clinical trial, and casts enormous doubt on any findings. It was supposed to last four years, but was stopped at 2.2 years. Why? Were the mortality curves heading rapidly in the wrong direction.
Once again, drug companies conflate lower cholesterol with lower risk. It AIN'T so.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:28 pm

Janknitz wrote:Here's Dr. Marty Kendall's take on all the squacking about Repatha: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/03/2 ... en-or-not/
•The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group was 251
•The total number of deaths from cardiovascular disease in the placebo group was 240
•So, 11 more people died of cardiovascular disease in the Repatha group

The overall mortality data
•The total number of, overall, deaths in the Repatha group was 444
•The total number of, overall, deaths in the placebo group was 426
•So, there were 18 more deaths in those taking Repatha.

The differences here are not large enough to be statistically significant. However, there were more, not less, deaths in the Repatha group, and more, not less, CV deaths. This study was also terminated early, which is extremely bad news for any clinical trial, and casts enormous doubt on any findings. It was supposed to last four years, but was stopped at 2.2 years. Why? Were the mortality curves heading rapidly in the wrong direction.
Once again, drug companies conflate lower cholesterol with lower risk. It AIN'T so.
Thanks, Jan. So, I guess we can put those screaming headlines proclaiming the benefits of Repatha into the category of "fake news"!

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by DreamStalker » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:36 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote:I've gone back to just eating "whole" foods, with some exceptions, of course. I avoid all refined carbs as much as possible and I rarely eat "high starch" vegetables such, as potatoes. Oatmeal is out. I don't try to eat "low carb", but I suppose I do - compared to the average American - and I'm not afraid of fats.

..... One thing that I have been careful about in the last few months is to avoid artificial sweeteners. In the past, even though I "knew" artificial sweeteners probably were not good, I would put a teaspoon of Splenda in my coffee without thinking too much about it. Now, If I have to have something sweet, I use honey. I wouldn't be surprised if the Splenda caused my fasting blood sugar to be high. I consider honey only marginally better than sugar and both should be avoided, but either is probably better than Splenda.

And speaking of Splenda, there may not be any connection, but since I've avoided Splenda, I have increased my sleep time by over 30 minutes. In reviewing my sleep history, I noticed a time in the past when I went without Splenda for some time and my sleep increased during that time, too....
Honey is fine if you eat local organic sources. Local honey can provide added immune system benefits for those who suffer from seasonal allergies.

It appears to me that if you want to live a mostly sedentary lifestyle (like typical modern westerners), you're better off with a low-carb diet. Unfortunately, as we get older we also tend to become more sedentary.

However, at the other end of the spectrum, a high-carb diet requires a very physically active lifestyle. This recent study of the "Healthiest hearts in the world" found in the indigenous Tsimane people of the Bolivian rain forest with a high carb diet walk "16,000 to 17,000 steps every single day". The average human stride length is about 30 inches. Even if we assume shorter 20-inch strides for steep terrains, that is over 5 miles per day ... on flat ground, easily 7+ miles per day, 7 days per week. How many westerners walk 7 miles per day every day?

Regardless of your physical activity level, the key strategy to a longer and healthy life is to avoid refined/processed foods and instead eat "fresh" organic (or better quality) whole unprocessed foods while maximizing your physical activity as best you can.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:51 pm

DreamStalker wrote:Regardless of your physical activity level, the key strategy to a longer and healthy life is to avoid refined/processed foods and instead eat "fresh" organic (or better quality) whole unprocessed foods while maximizing your physical activity as best you can.
+1

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:32 pm

DreamStalker wrote:organic (or better quality)
Why did you add the "or" phrase? You know that organic foods are no more nutritious than foods grown by traditional farming methods?

You might also want to look at the environmental impact. Soil health is better with traditional no-till methods as compared to organic farming.

Yield per acre is also higher with traditional methods. This means more forests must be cleared and more wetlands must be destroyed to produce the same about of food using organic methods as compared to traditional methods.

Someday, the organic scam will collapse under its own hubris.