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DreamStalker
 
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby DreamStalker on Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:21 am

Holden4th wrote:Was your post for me or someone else?

DreamStalker wrote:Ask your doctor if stupidity is right for you .... or know that:

"This topic bears an upsettingly parallel reality to that of nutrition “science” in that virtually all health care providers have no understanding of it and seem to only reiterate conventional wisdom (e.g., “LDL is bad,” “HDL is good”)."

The straight dope on cholesterol

"By the end of this series, should you choose to internalize this content (and pick up a few homework assignments along the way), you will understand the field of lipidology and advanced lipid testing better than 95% of physicians in the United States." -- Peter Attia

A brief video version:
Dr. Peter Attia - The Straight Dope on Cholesterol and Diet Video Presentation


I cannot presume to know if my previous post was for you or not. Only you can make that decision.

My post was for anyone who is interested in learning what cholesterol is and how it works in the human body since the thread topic is about statins, a drug that affects .... well, cholesterol among other things.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Janknitz on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:34 am

Jay asked

But to be fair, here is a criticism of the study [finding higher LDL-C reduces all cause mortality]:
http://www.cebm.net/cebm-response-lack- ... ation-pee/


And here is a criticism of the criticism: https://profgrant.com/2016/06/14/the-ne ... e-elderly/
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:56 am

Janknitz wrote:Jay asked

But to be fair, here is a criticism of the study [finding higher LDL-C reduces all cause mortality]:
http://www.cebm.net/cebm-response-lack- ... ation-pee/


And here is a criticism of the criticism: https://profgrant.com/2016/06/14/the-ne ... e-elderly/


Love it!

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby bwexler on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:01 am

Since I am not an MD, I can't make a recommendation for anyone else, but I will not begin statin therapy until at least two weeks after they burry me.
More than twenty years ago at a family Thanksgiving dinner, my cousin who is a year older than me was laughing at me for taking all the vitamins I was taking. Than the topic changed to his quintuple bypass.
This week my cardiologist shared the results of my stress echoed test. She said I was in good shape and my heart was working better than a lot of folks younger than me.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:20 am

Thanks to Janknitz for piquing my interest in Resistant Starches

Resistant Starch May Benefit People With Metabolic Syndrome, an overview

The study, Impact of dietary resistant starch type 4 on human gut microbiota and immunometabolic functions

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Janknitz on Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:42 pm

What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
Swift FX Fitting Guide http://tinyurl.com/22ur9ts
Don't Pay that Upcharge! http://tinyurl.com/2ck48rm

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:01 am

Janknitz wrote:http://youtu.be/-wmcRYyrvsk

Thanks, very informative easy to understand overview of resistive starch. Also alludes to how changes in gut bacteria brought about by a low carb diet could tend to cause constipation. Something I intuitively knew, but hadn't really read about.

Cooled potato flour does sound interesting, too. Reminds me of something I just read about how potato salad might actually be a good thing - and I love potato salad! :)

I wonder about cooled oatmeal :wink:

EDIT: So, as it turns out, rolled oats are fairly high in restant starch. We may be able to have our oatmeal and eat it, too. More research on prep is required.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby DreamStalker on Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:23 am

Jay Aitchsee wrote:
Janknitz wrote:http://youtu.be/-wmcRYyrvsk

Thanks, very informative easy to understand overview of resistive starch. Also alludes to how changes in gut bacteria brought about by a low carb diet could tend to cause constipation. Something I intuitively knew, but hadn't really read about.

Cooled potato flour does sound interesting, too. Reminds me of something I just read about how potato salad might actually be a good thing - and I love potato salad! :)

I wonder about cooled oatmeal :wink:

EDIT: So, as it turns out, rolled oats are fairly high in restant starch. We may be able to have our oatmeal and eat it, too. More research on prep is required.


The glucose meter rarely lies. I have personally noticed that oatmeal does indeed cause a glucose/insulin spike .... but perhaps that is not an issue for some? Perhaps the goal is to use an insulin spike to pack nutrients into various tissues? Perhaps those types of people are into body building? Then timing the consumption of resistant starches (or any kind of starch or carbs for that matter) becomes most important.

As for buyrate, I let the Kerrygold cows make it for me in their gut so that I can add it as butter to my AM coffee and drown my PM steamed veggies and ribeye steak in it. :D

Seriously, if you are eating a low-carb diet with plenty of green veggies and certain fruits like avocados, grapefruit, lemons, and limes (also tomatoes, onions, leeks, and garlic in moderation) ... your gut bacteria will get plenty of soluble fiber to stay healthy.

Nonetheless, I found this somewhat more informative link - The Definitive Guide to Resistant Starch. I've not done a glucose test on cold potato salad -- but will try a post-prandial glucose test after my next scheduled HIT exercise workout ... and I'll make sure to take a complex probiotic prior.
Thanks Snoredog, GoofyUT, rested gal, GoofProof, Wulfman, NightHawkeye, snoregirl and all of the others.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:06 am

Thanks, DS

Yes, Jan and I have been having a little conversation about oatmeal. The short of it is that on low carb, I need more fiber. I chose oatmeal. After I fell off the low carb diet over the holidays past, I got back on it, but noticed my TG didn't come down to the sub 100 level it had been a year ago. I suspected a carb, but the only real candidate was the oatmeal which I had continued.

So, prompted by another thread in which you contribute, I decided to do a little BG testing with Jan's guidance.

Here's the result: BG 1 and 2 hours after consuming breakfast of
    oatmeal, walnuts, coconut oil, 1/2 and 1/2; 139, 107
    scrambled eggs, coconut oil, cheddar cheese, spinach, tomatoes; 107, 106
    (my fasting BG is about 106)

This is a spike I was no doubt enduring every day for about a year. I'm guessing it has played a part in keeping my TG elevated (about 140) and put an upward strain on by fasting BG level, though that hasn't changed much in several years - low carb or no.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby BlackSpinner on Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:23 am

To get the RS from oat meal, you need to eat it raw, not flaked, not cooked. You grind the oats fine, add a little liquid and chew.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:56 am

BlackSpinner wrote:To get the RS from oat meal, you need to eat it raw, not flaked, not cooked. You grind the oats fine, add a little liquid and chew.

Well, that would certainly be one way. I think I'll pass on that, thanks. But I have found some mention of cold soak prep and cook and cool, but who knows? I don't know that any method has actually been tested and, even if it had, would probably still require individual testing.

I like raw potatoes with a little salt and pepper - probably more than I would like raw oats.

I'm just looking to keep my little gut bacteria healthy and happy.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Janknitz on Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:47 pm

I'm a fan of the Outlander series of books (and the Showtime dramatization). The story takes place in Scotland in the 1700's and has many rich historical details. When out and about on the land without cooking facilities, the Scots would put a handful of raw oats (not the processed, rolled kind) in their mouths and chew it and swallow. Bet they were never constipated. :wink:
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby DreamStalker on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:31 am

Jay Aitchsee wrote:Thanks, DS

Yes, Jan and I have been having a little conversation about oatmeal. The short of it is that on low carb, I need more fiber. I chose oatmeal. After I fell off the low carb diet over the holidays past, I got back on it, but noticed my TG didn't come down to the sub 100 level it had been a year ago. I suspected a carb, but the only real candidate was the oatmeal which I had continued.

So, prompted by another thread in which you contribute, I decided to do a little BG testing with Jan's guidance.

Here's the result: BG 1 and 2 hours after consuming breakfast of
    oatmeal, walnuts, coconut oil, 1/2 and 1/2; 139, 107
    scrambled eggs, coconut oil, cheddar cheese, spinach, tomatoes; 107, 106
    (my fasting BG is about 106)

This is a spike I was no doubt enduring every day for about a year. I'm guessing it has played a part in keeping my TG elevated (about 140) and put an upward strain on by fasting BG level, though that hasn't changed much in several years - low carb or no.


Yes. As I recall from a few years ago, 1 cup of oatmeal (prepared plain w/ water only) would spike my BG into 140's in first post prandial half hour. The thing is that it would stay above 100 for over six hours. Exact same response for eating a medium size Fuji apple. My fasting BG at the time was in upper 90's

Eating carbs is ok for those who are glucose tolerant -- but more importantly, when consumed at the appropriate time ... within 30 minute, before or after, of doing intense physical work.

I am intrigued however of this resistant starch theory (of not raising glucose/insulin levels). I had heard of resistant starch a couple of years ago but disregarded it on the basis of my understanding that all starches were converted into glucose through digestion and the body cannot distinguish between glucose originating from sugar, grains, legumes, or potatoes. And I'm still skeptical -- but willing to experiment on myself cuz that's what I like to do. Next week, right before my BBS HIT workout, I'll try a cup of cold potato salad and monitor my glucose and ketone levels.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:59 am

Re: DS above,

Yes, I'm interested in RS as well. I put some rolled oats in the fridge to soak, I've ordered some Bob's unmodified potato starch, and I think I'll buy a couple potatoes (I don't have any in the house). I plan on doing a few experiments, too.

As I mentioned above somewhere, oatmeal was originally added to my Whole Foods Diet (I try to eat very little processed foods) as a digestive aid and it worked for me. Even though I try to include a generous amount of vegetable in my diet, including some legumes (black beans and garbanzos), being on lower carb seems to slow things down. Now, only after about 3 days without oatmeal, I can tell things are slowing, even though I've added spinach and tomatoes to my egg breakfast to counter the fiber lost in giving up oatmeal. So it's possible I simply need more soluble fiber than most. BTW, I am (and have been) supplementing with psyllium fiber (Konsyl) which does, according to the label, contain about the same mix of soluble and insoluble fiber as oatmeal.

It should be noted here, since this is a thread about statins and indirectly about blood lipids, that blood lipid is what prompted me to start looking at the oatmeal. Over the winter, I fell off my diet for a couple months and a lipid panel revealed: TG=189, HDL=37, LDL=80. After getting back to eating "right" and more regular exercise for about 3 months, my lipids were: TG=110, HDL=44, LDL=57. Certainly a move in the right direction and not too bad, but I fully expected my TG (which I consider most important) to be down in the 70-80 range that it was last fall. So I started looking for what might be holding it up and the oatmeal became suspect - which led to the BG testing which revealed it was causing a pretty high spike.

So now the questions become, will eliminating oatmeal bring my TG down? And, if so, will it allow my LDL to rise (since oatmeal is one of those things thought to reduce LDL)? Now, I happen to believe high TG posses more of a threat than LDL and I'm willing to give up a little in LDL to get my TG down, but, as a person with CAD, I think it wise to keep an eye on both. Oh, and very importantly, will I be able to poop?

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Postby DreamStalker on Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:58 am

If it's pooping your concerned about ... I find that cabbage is good for that. Cabbage soup, cabbage slaw with vinegar base dressing, cabbage rolls, grilled cabbage, fried cabbage in coconut oil or ghee. Use your immagnination.

Also, I would highly recommend this supplement product to keep your bowels clean and moving the krap out in a timely manner ... Oxy-Powder. I've been using it for over 3 years as needed.

For trigs .... lower carbs intake (even lower for some folks more than others) and/or include some type of fasting. Get plenty of exercise without over-training yourself into a chronic inflammatory state. Try high intensity weight lifting once a week and Maffetone aerobic conditioning approach (maintain HR = 180 - age) for 30 to 60 minutes 5 days per week with one day of full rest the day after weight training.
Thanks Snoredog, GoofyUT, rested gal, GoofProof, Wulfman, NightHawkeye, snoregirl and all of the others.
From 102 AHI to 0.4 AHI for over 10 yrs now :)
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