OT - Statins and You

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Papit
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Papit » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:03 am

p.s. While some people have apparently had toxicity problems with statins, many others have apparently not. My mother and all three of her brothers died many years ago from heart attacks and stroke and I (used to) have a sustained genetically high (300+) natural cholesterol reading. I have been prescribed statins for over 30 years and I usually get regular daily exercise. My cholesterol readings are almost always about 200 or lower and my heart and circulatory system show no adverse symptoms in multiple tests over the years. (My sister has had essentially the same experience as I.)
So while brief statin holidays may or may not be a good idea for some people, be sure to discuss this with your doc.
NateS wrote: . . . See:
Statin myopathy: A common dilemma not reflected in clinical trials
Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine
Volume 78 No. 6 June 2011
http://www.ccjm.org/content/78/6/393.full.pdf+html
. . .
Thanks, Nate, that was a very good read. I'm sad to hear about how the statins have set you back. How long had you been using them? Now I'm getting a bit antsy about my use of Lipitor/generic. I've been on the statins for a good 30 years beginning with lovastatin/Mevacor and, like you, taking fish oil, CoQ10 and other supplements with it. I'm going to talk with doc about the merits of taking a statin "holiday" for a while as was mentioned in your referenced article. Please keep us posted and best of luck with the changes you're making.

Edit: See p.s. at top.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:19 pm

There are cases where statins ARE appropriate therapy, and familial hypercholesterolemia MAY be one of those instances. The problem I see is that statins are prescribed almost universally, and there is little or NO evidence that most people benefit from them significantly, given the cost and side effects. Even your doctor may not be aware of the instances when statins are truly beneficial versus the times when not so much--doctors follow Adult Treatment Panel Guidelines and rarely look beyond them because of fear of litigation if they fail to follow accepted guidelines.

If you have a real problem like familial hypercholesterolemia, very high cholesterol, or you've had a stroke or heart attack, it's MHO that you should be seeing a lipidologist who is the best person to assess your risk and appropriate treatment--I think it's way past a primary care doctor's expertise at that point, and even many cardiologists' knowledge may be more limited than you might think.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by DreamStalker » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:45 pm

Statins will f*ck you up!

Here is a timely lipoprotein article from one of my favorite bloggers ...
Dr. B G

Image
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by MaxDarkside » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:58 pm

The Hereditary Neuropathy Foundation has brought to my attention information released by the Neuromuscular Disease Center, Washington University, in St Louis that Statins (Lovastatin, Prevastatin, Simvastatin) exacerbate neuropathy so I'm immediately (sound of tires screeching) and permanently stopping my Simvastatin (barely restarted anyway). I'll eat more oatmeal (wink).

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by DreamStalker » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:11 pm

MaxDarkside wrote:The Hereditary Neuropathy Foundation has brought to my attention information released by the Neuromuscular Disease Center, Washington University, in St Louis that Statins (Lovastatin, Prevastatin, Simvastatin) exacerbate neuropathy so I'm immediately (sound of tires screeching) and permanently stopping my Simvastatin (barely restarted anyway). I'll eat more oatmeal (wink).
Or ... out of the frying pan and into the slow cooker.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by NateS » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:15 pm

Outcomes of Statin Myopathy After Statin Withdrawal

Journal of Clinical Neuromuscular Disease:

March 2013 - Volume 14 - Issue 3 - p 103–109

doi: 10.1097/CND.0b013e3182852558

Original Article

Armour, Ryan DO; Zhou, Lan MD, PhD


Abstract

Objective: To study the outcomes of statin myopathy after statin withdrawal.

Methods: Sixty-nine patients with mild statin myopathy were studied by chart review.

Results: Mean age at presentation was 62.1 years. Forty-nine (71.0%) of the 69 patients were men. Mean duration of follow-up after statin withdrawal was 18.2 months. Muscle symptoms improved in 9 (13.0%) and completely resolved in 50 (72.5%) patients. Thirteen (18.8%)/69 patients had symptoms lingered beyond 14 months. Creatine kinase (CK) levels were elevated in 52 (75.4%)/69 patients at initial presentation and returned to normal in 11 (21.3%)/52 patients at follow-up. Symptom improvement was not influenced by the initial presence of weakness, CK elevation, or myopathic changes on electromyography or muscle biopsy.

Conclusions: Muscle symptoms can linger beyond 14 months, and it is difficult to predict which patients will have a prolonged recovery course. CK normalization often lags behind symptom improvement, and this should not be the only indication for muscle biopsy.

© 2013 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.
http://journals.lww.com/jcnmd/Abstract/ ... tin.2.aspx

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Papit
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Papit » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:24 pm

NateS wrote:Outcomes of Statin Myopathy After Statin Withdrawal

Journal of Clinical Neuromuscular Disease:

March 2013 - Volume 14 - Issue 3 - p 103–109

doi: 10.1097/CND.0b013e3182852558

Original Article

Armour, Ryan DO; Zhou, Lan MD, PhD


Abstract . . .

Methods: Sixty-nine patients with mild statin myopathy were studied by chart review.

Results: Mean age at presentation was 62.1 years. Forty-nine (71.0%) of the 69 patients were men. Mean duration of follow-up after statin withdrawal was 18.2 months. Muscle symptoms improved in 9 (13.0%) and completely resolved in 50 (72.5%) patients. . . .
.[/b] © 2013 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.
http://journals.lww.com/jcnmd/Abstract/ ... tin.2.aspx
Another very interesting and hopeful read. Sure, it's only one study, but that 72.5% rate of muscle symptoms being completely resolved has my attention. I'll be discussing this with my doc.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:07 am

Statin Nation, a documentary, is available on YouTube.

http://youtu.be/iZctVYxiW2w

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by DreamStalker » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:17 am

Papit wrote:
NateS wrote:Outcomes of Statin Myopathy After Statin Withdrawal

Journal of Clinical Neuromuscular Disease:

March 2013 - Volume 14 - Issue 3 - p 103–109

doi: 10.1097/CND.0b013e3182852558

Original Article

Armour, Ryan DO; Zhou, Lan MD, PhD


Abstract . . .

Methods: Sixty-nine patients with mild statin myopathy were studied by chart review.

Results: Mean age at presentation was 62.1 years. Forty-nine (71.0%) of the 69 patients were men. Mean duration of follow-up after statin withdrawal was 18.2 months. Muscle symptoms improved in 9 (13.0%) and completely resolved in 50 (72.5%) patients. . . .
.[/b] © 2013 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.
http://journals.lww.com/jcnmd/Abstract/ ... tin.2.aspx
Another very interesting and hopeful read. Sure, it's only one study, but that 72.5% rate of muscle symptoms being completely resolved has my attention. I'll be discussing this with my doc.

Don't discuss it with your Dr. ... your Dr. is probably the one responsible for putting you on statins in the first place so he/she could attend the all-paid big pharma hosted conferences in Hawaii or Amsterdam.

Stop taking the statin poison unless you have some "weird genetic mutation defect" with hyperlipidemia.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Woody » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:33 pm

Statins in paticular Zocor can have an effect on your sleep ! When my Dr. changed my from Lipitor
to Zocor my I simply couldn't sleep enough. I changed from feeling fine with 8 hours sleep to needing
10-12 hours a day. it took a couple of months changing back to lipitor to get back to just 8 hours
of sleep.



http://cholesterol.about.com/od/statind ... nsleep.htm

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:42 am

What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:02 am

I can't see the whole article, but this is interesting:
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInfor ... erID=34065

"There is a categorical lack of evidence to support the use of statin therapy in primary prevention. Not only is there a dearth of evidence for primary cardiovascular protection, there is ample evidence to show statins actually augment cardiovascular risk in women, patients with diabetes mellitus, and in the young. Furthermore, statins are associated with triple the risk if coronary artery and aortic artery calcification."

S. Sultan and N. Hynes, "The Ugly Side of Statins. Systemic Appraisal of the Contemporary Un-Known Unknowns," Open Journal of Endocrine and Metabolic Diseases, Vol. 3 No. 3, 2013, pp. 179-185. doi: 10.4236/ojemd.2013.33025.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:37 am

This is all new to me so here goes. I'm currently taking generic Atorvastatin 40mg (generic Lipitor) and have for decades been taking one form or another of this class of drug. I've also taken Simvastatin long duration in past years. Two questions: Has anybody had problems with insomnia or sleep maintenance using these two statins. Also: has anybody approached their cardio doctors about getting off statins and what were the doctors responses in regards to diet, exercise etc? I didn't read every reply, so apologies if this has be covered already.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:12 pm

Sir,

Zocor (simvastatin) has been repeatedly mentioned as possibly causing disturbed sleep. I think most mentionings stem from a 2007 study referenced in this article, http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-manage ... fect-sleep. I can say that for me, taking or not taking simvastatin does not seem to affect my sleep one way or another.

I think, from my own experience, that most doctors will give lip service to diet as a method of controlling cholesterol, but will be quick to offer (read push) a statin if one's LDL is above 100-130.

I also think that diet is ineffective in reducing cholesterol beyond that which might be achieved through weight loss. Typically, people are advised to “reduce fats and increase whole grains”. But, if one is to maintain a set weight, since calories can only come from carbohydrates, proteins and fats, a reduction in fats must mean an increase in carbohydrates and/or proteins. Unfortunately, in today's world, this probably means an increase in refined carbohydrates (read sugar). One given the advice to lower cholesterol with diet might give up bacon for a whole-wheat donut and think they're doing good. But, while their cholesterol might drop a little, their triglycerides are going through the roof and they're putting themselves at risk for metabolic syndrome, obesity, diabetes, and heart disease (exactly what they were trying to avoid). I think the epidemic rates of obesity in this county could very well be attributed to the dietary advice routinely given to control cholesterol over the past 30 years or so.

So back to your questions, Sir. I wouldn't expect much help from a physician regarding a diet that actually works and I think only you can tell if a drug is affecting your sleep (stop taking it for a while).But most importantly, I would recommend a diet as low in processed foods as possible.

Jay

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:25 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote:So back to your questions, Sir. I wouldn't expect much help from a physician regarding a diet that actually works and I think only you can tell if a drug is affecting your sleep (stop taking it for a while).But most importantly, I would recommend a diet as low in processed foods as possible.

Jay
Thanks for the thorough info in your reply and your ideas on statins, Jay. That was very helpful and inspired me to email my heart doctor. Surprisingly, he got back to me within an hour and said go off the Atorvastatin for a couple of months if I wanted and see what the results are. He put forward no diet plans or other advice like tapering off, so that was a disappointment, but at least my email made an impression on him, plus it got results about a path forward.

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