OT - Statins and You

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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idamtnboy
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by idamtnboy » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:51 pm

Just remember, as I've said before. Every person in the food and medical industry who is knowledgeable about diet and nutrition shares a common characteristic with every teacher of every religion in the world - there ain't a single one of them who has a lock on the truth!

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Noctuary
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Noctuary » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:31 pm

I already eat a low carb, high fat diet. I can't lose weight but I don't gain either. I'm tempted to do the boiled egg diet again, cholesterol be damned. I'm desperate to get some relief from this fatigue.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Guest » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:49 am

Alas, if you are on a low carb diet and still not losing weight, you either have to increase exercise or cut calories. It's the awful truth. I found it handy to get an app and actually track my food and MEASURE quantities. Portion sizes seem to creep up otherwise, at least for me.

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Hosehead4ever
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Hosehead4ever » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:05 am

I had borderline high cholesterol at 33. I went vegan, lost 100 lbs and My cholesterol is perfect now. High LDL, low HDL. And I feel better than ever.

My father had a severe reaction to Lipitor, ended up in the hospital where he acquired the 2009 H1N1 swine flu, which severely damaged his airways. He spent the next 8 months on ventilator before he died.

I already have to take medication for things that lifestyle changes won't fix so you'd better bet I will do what I can to avoid unnecessary medications when I can do anything about it.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Paralel » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:54 am

I think the main issue is with the lipophilic statins that penetrate muscle and cross the BBB, the hydrophilic statins are much less of an issue. I have yet to see someone on one of the most hydrophilic statins have any issue. Also, the hydrophilic statins were shown not to be associated with diabetes, only the highly lipophilic statins were associated with diabetic risk.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:46 am

Paralel wrote:I think the main issue is with the lipophilic statins that penetrate muscle and cross the BBB, the hydrophilic statins are much less of an issue. I have yet to see someone on one of the most hydrophilic statins have any issue. Also, the hydrophilic statins were shown not to be associated with diabetes, only the highly lipophilic statins were associated with diabetic risk.
Then why do they persist in prescribing lipophilic statin's?

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Paralel » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:20 pm

Janknitz wrote:
Paralel wrote:I think the main issue is with the lipophilic statins that penetrate muscle and cross the BBB, the hydrophilic statins are much less of an issue. I have yet to see someone on one of the most hydrophilic statins have any issue. Also, the hydrophilic statins were shown not to be associated with diabetes, only the highly lipophilic statins were associated with diabetic risk.
Then why do they persist in prescribing lipophilic statin's?
Some people get inadequate response from the hydrophilic statins. They do tend to be less potent than the lipophilic statins.

Now, why docs start some people out on the highly lipophilic statins, that is beyond me, I'm guessing its just an inadequate understanding of the biochemistry of statins. Lots of docs do lots of stupid things on a regular basis, its just that most people don't know enough to call them on it. Given the known risks of lipophilic statins, there really is no reason to start out on them, except in very, very rare instances, which all involve terrible genetic metabolic disorders.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by sptrout » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:02 pm

Janknitz wrote:
Paralel wrote:I think the main issue is with the lipophilic statins that penetrate muscle and cross the BBB, the hydrophilic statins are much less of an issue. I have yet to see someone on one of the most hydrophilic statins have any issue. Also, the hydrophilic statins were shown not to be associated with diabetes, only the highly lipophilic statins were associated with diabetic risk.
Then why do they persist in prescribing lipophilic statin's?

http://undergroundwellness.com/327/
Excellent podcast and well worth everyone's time (55 minutes) to get a real education on how big pharma market their drugs. Another podcast that I found on the same website is an interview that directly addresses statins. If you are a woman and taking a statin, you are in grave danger and not from a heart attack. However, everyone will benefit from listening to both of these podcasts.

http://undergroundwellness.com/the-podc ... -suck-226/

BTW - - This is my first post on this board (so I may as well start one that may stir some things up - LOL). I have learned a lot of great information just in the couple weeks since I found this board! Strange how a person can easily stumble across a great site such as this one! Since this is my first post, the link I copied above may not be allowed (some Boards will not allow links until "XX" posts are made). If it does not show-up I will repost with more specific information.

I have only been on a CPAP machine for about two weeks now and only one issue has come up, my first nasal mask was giving me dangerous pressure sores (aka, bed sores) on the top of my nose after only two nights. So, I quickly switched to nose pillows (what a weird name) and they work great for me.

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:13 pm

Welcome aboard, Sptrout. You'll find that this board is not heavily moderated. It makes it a little bit like the Wild West, but pretty much anything goes unless it's very offensive or poses a danger to the poster or others. That's why we like it here.

Sounds like you are doing well with your CPAP, but if you need help with anything start a new thread and ask. We encourage you to start new threads rather than dragging up old ones related to your topic--keeps things fresh around here.
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photonic
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by photonic » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:02 pm

Janknitz wrote:Prescribing statins to anyone with a total cholesterol of over 200 and/or an LDL of over 100 has become the "standard of care". Doctors fear getting sued if they don't prescribe statin drugs and a patient later has a cardiovascular event. Doctors prescribe statins even if HDL is high, triglycerides are low (these ratios turn out to be much better predictors of cardiovascular disease and risk factors), and the patient shows absolutely no sign of heart disease.

In the sleep apnea world this is equivalent to the sleep specialists who no matter what questions, concerns, or data you bring to the appointment simply give you the “Are you using the machine? Good, see you in a year” as they walk out the door.

It may be “standard of care”, but my own reading and research indicates that there is NO benefit to taking statins unless you're a male under the age of 65 who has already had a heart attack. There are many side effects from taking statins, some of them can be serious. Furthermore, statins supposedly work by lowering cholesterol—yet there is plenty of evidence (peer reviewed studies) showing that lower total cholesterol and LDL is not predictive of cardiovascular disease or risk, and lower levels of LDL in particular have been associated with increased cancer deaths, especially in women. Recent evidence shows that statins’ only real benefit may be their anti-inflammatory effect, but you can get the same or better results from an anti-inflammatory diet (removing most carbohydrates and all transfats, and added poly unsaturated fatty acids from the diet) more cheaply and safely.

I see no reason to take statins. I think they are widely prescribed because of ubiquitous advertising by the manufactures which has created the standard of care and fear of litigation on the part of physicians, not because there is sufficient evidence of their efficacy. (If you want a good treatise on how the statistical analysis of data is manipulated by drug companies see this video: http://youtu.be/3vr-c8GeT34 Beware: It's a long video and the best information is packed into the last few minutes. You can download the slides Dr. Diamond used in his presentation here http://www.cas.usf.edu/news/Diamond_USF.pdf and find your way to the peer-reviewed studies he cites.)

I will not take statins. This is just my personal opinion, not advice to anybody else, other than it’s always a good idea to do your own thinking and research. I don’t disagree with Kong about talking to your own doctor about statins and making a decision with your doctor about whether or not they make sense for your health. But I will say that most doctors don’t do their own independent research or thinking about how the data was reported touting the benefits of these drugs. They don’t have time to read and compare every journal article, and the references cited in those articles. Most of their information about drugs comes from drug reps, and I find that scary. Your doctor may have other reasons than your individual health needs for prescribing this class of drugs—often prescribing statins is used as a quality indicator in rating your doctor within his practice or an HMO, regardless of an individual patient’s actual risk factors.

I, for one, have decided that I will NOT take statins, and I don’t fear an increased risk of cardiovascular disease because of any lack of statin drugs. Do your own research.
My extremely deep research on this topic using primary sources validates all of the comments made here. Unfortunately most practitioners have not done this research and simply parrot what they have been told. Pervasive statin use goes hand in hand with the govt advice for a high carb
low fat diet. Bad advice with no validation continues to get perpetuated despite the available non confirming research. Very sad story indeed.
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49er
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by 49er » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:59 am

Found this blog entry on Kevin MD this morning:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/04/tra ... -pill.html

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:13 am

Good post. I wonder how many people would take statin's if their doctor's conversation went something like this: "I want you to take this statin medication for the next 20 years or so. You may have some side effects like muscle pain and weakness and memory problems, oh, and some people develop diabetes from this drug, but I think it's really important that you take it because there's a chance it may extend your life for as long as 8 months."

Eight months when you've lost your mobility and your marbles after 20 years on a drug that disrupts your metabolic pathways. How enticing!!!
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cathyf
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by cathyf » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:02 pm

But jan, you forgot about the other part: "...and we don't really know what your cholesterol is to any precision. When people have cholesterol tests frequently the numbers jump all over the place pretty randomly, so nobody knows if that one test we did on you was an unusually bad day, an unusually good day, or somewhere in between. And if you do take the drugs we won't really know whether they are working for the same reason."

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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:38 pm

cathyf wrote:But jan, you forgot about the other part: "...and we don't really know what your cholesterol is to any precision. When people have cholesterol tests frequently the numbers jump all over the place pretty randomly, so nobody knows if that one test we did on you was an unusually bad day, an unusually good day, or somewhere in between. And if you do take the drugs we won't really know whether they are working for the same reason."
My favorite part is people who go on a low carb diet and see a positive change to their cholesterol numbers without taking the statins they are prescribed. The doctors then congratulate themselves on how well the statins are working for their patients.
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Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:32 pm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/ ... re-cheese/
For a Healthy Heart, You May Have to Eat More Cheese
Not exactly hard science, but a fun read.

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