OT - Statins and You

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Janknitz
Posts: 8410
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:04 pm

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/834 ... HG&spon=17

If you join Medscape you can see this ridiculous discussion between two researchers. The medical community is finally recognizing that high HDL and low Triglyceride is a far better predictor of low cardiac risk (based on Framingham study) than low LDL-C. So now the race is on to develop pharmaceuticals to achieve those blood levels. But trials were a dismal failure, with some study participants dying.

Never once in this discussion do they ever consider that the low risk Framingham particpAnts weren't taking a drug to achieve those levels. Never once do they consider dietary changes that may achieve those levels because they are still so married to the lipid hypothesis.

My HDL is 100 and Trigs are 55, which Framingham characterizes as very low risk. But there are still doctors trying to put me on a statin because of my "high" cholesterol.
What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
Swift FX Fitting Guide http://tinyurl.com/22ur9ts
Don't Pay that Upcharge! http://tinyurl.com/2ck48rm

User avatar
RogerSC
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by RogerSC » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:56 pm

Yes, I'm currently on a 20mg. dose of simvastatin based on my age. Don't feel any effects from it (no weakness, and I don't remember if I've lost any memory function *smile*, etc.). It does affect my LDL levels (via the "direct LDL" test), and puts me in a better risk category, whoopee. Living according to statistics leaves me feeling leery, but we do this a lot, making decisions based on some form of statistics. Taking the "better" of two risks based on other's experiences.

I don't feel great about being treated for being "at risk" according to tables, rather than symptoms, but my doctor has made it clear that I can stop taking it if I want. I may do that at some point in the future, but I'm going along with it at the moment. He looks at it as preventative, and has informed me at length of the risks as well as the potential benefits. I look at it as potentially risky to be taking. Reading everything that goes by about it, I'm willing to stop taking it if I see a convincing reason *smile*.

User avatar
SleepWrangler
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:10 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada & New York

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by SleepWrangler » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:29 pm

RogerSC wrote:... my doctor has made it clear that I can stop taking it if I want. I may do that at some point in the future, but I'm going along with it at the moment. He looks at it as preventative, and has informed me at length of the risks as well as the potential benefits.
Ya. I'm of the same opinion although my dosage is only 5mg. I notice some muscle cramping and stiffness in my legs with strenuous exercise levels when I interval walk, jog and sprint when I sprint for a minute or longer. With this in mind I am skeptical that the reasons for taking a statin are actually a net benefit to me. Still gathering evidence but my faith in the lipid hypothesis is dwindling.

Need more specialized blood assessments and comparisons over time to make a decision. Like most people I get the standard lipid assessment which measures HDL-C, triglycerides, and total cholesterol. LDL-C is calculated using the Friedewald (1972) Formula: LDL = TC - HDL - TG/5.0 (mg/dL). Now that I'm following a low carb diet this may no longer be a valid estimation. I've added apoB count to my lipid assessment to get an estimate for LDL-P, and also added serum insulin levels to supplement HbA1c.

Insulin levels and LDL-P count are said to be a more accurate estimation of cardiovascular risk. The argument is compelling.

Peter Attia, The straight dope on cholesterol: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the- ... rol-part-i

My family doctor authorized the additional testing even though it may be for my benefit alone, so I can make lifestyle adjustments, like tweaking diet. My cardiologist says there are no more prescriptions he can provide (i.e., his job is done). He doesn't think LDL-P will result in a change to therapy and is a waste of resources. I don't agree and neither does my family doctor. I'll take look at the effect of statins on my extended cholesterol assessment in the new year.

User avatar
49er
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:18 am

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by 49er » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:46 am

I haven't had my cholesterol tested recently but many years ago, it consistently tested over 200 with an excellent HDL/LDL ratio. According to the information sheet that was attached to the lab results, I had about 1/2 the average risk of having a heart attack because of this ratio.

So when nurse from doctor's office called to tell me my result, she mentioned I had to be careful about my cholesterol levels. Uh, nurse, what about my minimal chances of getting a heart attack with this HDL/LDL ratio? The nurse's response was that I still had to be careful. I guess I should be thankful that didn't happen recently as no doubt my PCP would be pushing statins big time.

Regarding statins as a preventative measure for people who hit 65 who have absolutely no other risk factors, why not try them on fish oil? RogerSC, did your doctor mention this as an alternative? Just wondering?

bv1800
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:30 pm

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by bv1800 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:55 am

Add me as an anecdotal case of diet only to control cholesterol. About `8 months ago, my wife's new dr suggested that she eat according to the "Mediterranean Diet", which in it's simplest from is: very limited highly processed carbs in the form of pasta, olive oil only (no "yellow" oils, like canola or soy), fresh veggies and lower portions of meat than is normal in the typical American's diet. My cholesterol level, 3 months after eating this way was 180, with HDL of 54, triglycerides of 80. LDL was a little high, but the dr said the rest of the numbers were so good that he wasn't going to worry about them. I was a very fat (i.e., obese) 270 lbs at the time. A year prior, at essentially the same weight, my cholesterol was in the 225-230 range, HDL of 30 and triglycerides that were almost 200. There were only two real changes: 1) what I was eating and 2) change in Dr.

My prior doc had me on statins, resulting in the memory "fog" side effect and blood sugar of 102. The old doc insisted that the memory issue wasn't real and that I was going to get diabetes anyway, so if the statin had an impact, it simply accelerated what was going to happen since I was obese. He wasn't even willing to discuss diet and exercise as a possible treatment, even though my numbers weren't so out of whack that even the most aggressively pro-statin study would suggest that my cardio risk was elevated in any real sense. Time for a dr change.

_________________
MachineMask

User avatar
Jay Aitchsee
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: Southwest Florida

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:44 am

Yes, as Jan and others who have posted in thread can attest, giving up processed foods, especially refined carbohydrates, can result in remarkably good changes in blood chemistry. I don't have a "diet", I just don't eat processed foods (anything that comes in a box, bottle, or can) without careful consideration. For example, virgin olive oil is an exception that I make. I really don't try to limit fats, carbs, or protein, but let them fall naturally into place by eating reasonably lean meats and ample amounts of vegetables and fruit. I do try not to overdo the fruits and limit vegetables with higher starch content (like passing on white potatoes, corn, etc., most of the time). This form of eating resembles the paleo and Mediterranean diets without really following either. Basically, I just shop around the outside of the grocery store and only venture to the inside aisles by exception. Super easy.
Eating this way has resulted in a huge drop in triglycerides (around 200 to 70), a moderate rise in HDL (33 to 48) a fairly stable to lower cholesterol (LDL now around 70) as well as a loss in weight of about 20 lbs (195 to 175). I've been doing this for about two years, I guess, but the effects took place quickly, probably in the first 6 months.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: S9 Auto, P10 mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead V1.B2, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video

Janknitz
Posts: 8410
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:35 pm

What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
Swift FX Fitting Guide http://tinyurl.com/22ur9ts
Don't Pay that Upcharge! http://tinyurl.com/2ck48rm

Janknitz
Posts: 8410
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:39 am

Evidence against statins is gathering steam like a runaway train. I can't even keep up anymore.

But this was too good to pass up: http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/04/07 ... ont-bleed/

Calcified arteries, anyone?
What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
Swift FX Fitting Guide http://tinyurl.com/22ur9ts
Don't Pay that Upcharge! http://tinyurl.com/2ck48rm

User avatar
Jay Aitchsee
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: Southwest Florida

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Jay Aitchsee » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:37 pm

Study shows that use of statins increases risk of developing diabetes by 46%
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-04-statins-diabetes.html wrote: New research published in Diabetologia (the journal of the European Association for the Study of Diabetes) shows that use of statins is associated with a 46% increase in the risk of developing diabetes, even after adjustment for confounding factors. The study is by Professor Markku Laakso, Institute of Clinical Medicine, University of Eastern Finland and Kuopio University Hospital, Finland, and colleagues.
The paper as published.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: S9 Auto, P10 mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead V1.B2, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video

SewTired
Posts: 1737
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:33 am
Location: Minneapolis area

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by SewTired » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:19 pm

My doc wanted me on a statin 5 years ago. I pointed out to him that Finland sued Lipitor for advertising their product to women when their very own study showed women were more likely to have a heart attack taking their product than not taking their product. This was the largest study ever done on women, so clearly, it is an issue. There is also much evidence that triglycerides are a bigger issue for women than overall cholesterol.

I have had several family members have muscle issues from statins. The problem is that the state, as their 5 points to improve diabetes, pushes statins on diabetic patients no matter WHAT their cholesterol is. I finally had overall cholesterol below 200 for the first time since I started tracking it in my late 20s and the diabetic educator was whining about all these advantages to statins.... it goes on. I finally had my doctor add a statin allergy to my chart to stop the ragging on me.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead
Diabetes 2, RLS & bradycardia
Airsense For Her; Settings: range 8-12, Airfit P10 (M)

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Julie » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:44 pm

I believe I got gastritis (x 20 yrs) from them, and resent it because I had a cast iron stomach before them and suddenly couldn't eat great Indian food, never mind just chocolate!

Noctuary.

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Noctuary. » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:09 pm

In 2008 I went on a boiled egg diet; lost 13 lbs in the first two weeks. As it happens, I had a physical around that time and my total cholesterol was 700. My doctor wanted to put me on statins until I told him I ate about 80 boiled eggs in two weeks. He decided to give me a month to see if the numbers would drop. During that time I went to another doctor who practiced alternative medicine; he prescribed no-flush niacin. Six weeks later my total cholesterol dropped to 260.

Still, it was a good diet and I'm thinking of trying it again, just to see if weight loss would help my apnea condition.

Janknitz
Posts: 8410
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:12 pm

A boiled egg diet is not sustainable but try this: http://www.dietrictor.com/LCHF. Better than statin's to achieve great cholesterol and weight loss.
What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
Swift FX Fitting Guide http://tinyurl.com/22ur9ts
Don't Pay that Upcharge! http://tinyurl.com/2ck48rm

User avatar
idamtnboy
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:12 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by idamtnboy » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:24 pm

Janknitz wrote:A boiled egg diet is not sustainable but try this: http://www.dietrictor.com/LCHF. Better than statin's to achieve great cholesterol and weight loss.
Bad link. Can't be found.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Hose management - rubber band tied to casement window crank handle! Hey, it works! S/W is 3.13, not 3.7

Janknitz
Posts: 8410
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: OT - Statins and You

Post by Janknitz » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:08 pm

Oops! That's what I get typing on my teeny tiny little iPhone screen!

http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf

Be sure to scroll down. It looks like it is done because of ads in the text, but scroll beyond them for even more.
What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
Swift FX Fitting Guide http://tinyurl.com/22ur9ts
Don't Pay that Upcharge! http://tinyurl.com/2ck48rm