[-SWS]

...Red Calories, White Calories. Dr. Taubes, meet Dr. Seuss.

Primal diet experts and low-carb diet experts, PLEASE weigh in here. Would experts who advocate your diet dispute these findings?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/12/health/re ... ?hpt=hp_c2

Thanks in advance for enlightening those of us who are non-experts. My ever-so-slight arteriosclerosis and I look forward to your comments.

[chunkyfrog]

My vote is that quantity might have a greater effect than color, however over-eating may be linked to color:
It seems to be easier to eat too much red meat than it is white meat--just because it's so doggone tasty!
---"That's all the chicken I can eat."
---"Can I have the last hunk of beef?."

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[Lizistired]

That's nothing that we haven't been hearing for 30 years.
I didn't see where they mentioned whether those studied were eating a baked potato or biscuit with that red meat.

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[-SWS]

My vote is that quantity might have a greater effect than color, however over-eating may be linked to color:
It seems to be easier to eat too much red meat than it is white meat--just because it's so doggone tasty!
---"That's all the chicken I can eat."
---"Can I have the last hunk of beef?."

I suspect you're right, chunkyfrog. Too many calories can definitely be bad. And I also find red meat much tastier than any white meat. In short, I love red meat. But I'm not so sure red meat loves the “periventricular and watershed vascular zones in both cerebral hemispheres” that were supposedly sightly damage according to my last MRI.

That's nothing that we haven't been hearing for 30 years.
I didn't see where they mentioned whether those studied were eating a baked potato or biscuit with that red meat.

I agree that a baked potato is better than a biscuit. But were today's two strips of bacon and two scrambled eggs a-okay for my presumed albeit slight arteriosclerosis? I honestly don't know... hence the purpose of my thread.

In short, I understand a primal diet is better than a poor diet or no diet. And I also understand that one can indulge in plenty of unhealthy non-meat items. But a primal dieter can actually eat steak, eggs, grilled burgers, and pork chops even WITH an arteriosclerosis tendency?

[xenablue]

As a very wise author of a great little read for T2 diabetics says often - All things in moderation... except laughter.

Calories mean less to me than carbs, fat and protein content, but find when I have the right ratio of the three I don't need to eat a big quantity. Fad diets are just that - fads.

Bacon is ok - in moderation, but it's better to find one without nitrates/nitrites - the less processing and chemicals added the better and that goes for all foods - packaged, processed, simple carb foods are the worst.

IMHO, when the medical community realises that the cholesterol in food is so different from that in your body - we would be free to eat more balanced meals with their blessing. Oh, and yes, food cholesterol does raise your HDL which is the GOOD one that want to be higher, and lowers the LDL, but THEY don't tell you that.

Cheers,
xena

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[Lizistired]

NO, I didn't say the potato was better than the biscuit. My point is that those studied were eating the american diet and they took away red meat. So what. What else were they eating? Blame it on the red meat... Keeps the price lower for me, but I prefer grass fed.
Low carb and Paleo don't mean all you eat is red meat. It's about whole foods. foods that you can eat without processing.
The article you linked is exactly the data that Taubes debunks. Give him a listen.
Listen to this Heart Surgeon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe9z32N ... re=related

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[SleepingUgly]

Whole grains vs. no grains, meat vs. no meat, etc. I'm going to just stop eating all controversial food items until this is all sorted out. I'll be eating celery. I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about celery. And spinach. Who can say anything bad about spinach?!

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[SleepingUgly]

NO, I didn't say the potato was better than the biscuit.

I was under the impression that regular potatoes and corn were practically the kiss of death.

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[Lizistired]

In about 1977, I remember standing in my stepmother's kitchen and for whatever reason the discussion was about cholesterol. I think it was all about EGGS then. I was about 17 years old.
My stepbrother-in-law, a chemist, said, "That's crap, your body makes it whether you eat it or not, because your body needs it."
I mentioned that to him on a recent visit and my stepsister was suprised that I remembered that. I regret that I forgot in the midst of the hype.
Check your cholesterol ratios, not just your total cholesterol.
Taubes has finally brought to light the different types of cholesterol.
Give him a listen.

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[SMenasco]

I have a friend that was given a special diet by his cardiologist. It says eat nothing that has a mother or a face. He's going to grow rather tired masquerading as a herbivore.

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[-SWS]

The article you linked is exactly the data that Taubes debunks. Give him a listen.
Listen to this Heart Surgeon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe9z32N ... re=related

Thanks. I will. I also have "Good Calories, Bad Calories" on my e-reader per Ozij's recommendation. I'll read that before the week is up.

So far I understand that Taubes does a tenable job of debunking traditional diet studies. Is there longitudinal empiricism yet supporting the Taubes diet. Althernately, is there any longitudinal empiricism disputing the specifics of what Taubes recommends? I haven't had a chance to search yet.

As it stands, think I'm heading for a Taubes type diet. But I need to understand the subject matter much better. Thanks again to all who contribute to this discussion...

[xenablue]

My cardiologist gave me a diet too - he was astounded when my cholesterol, kidney function, BP and T2 diabetes was so under control with NOT his eating plan but mine. How could he argue with the facts - my labs. I eat at least about a dozen organic eggs per week. I eat lots of good quality olive oil, avocados, real butter, real cream in my coffee - all organic if I can afford/get them.

Again, all in moderation and choose foods more from a farm than a factory.

cheers,
xena

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[-SWS]

NO, I didn't say the potato was better than the biscuit.

I was under the impression that regular potatoes and corn were practically the kiss of death.

Even a plain baked potato?

I have a friend that was given a special diet by his cardiologist. It says eat nothing that has a mother or a face. He's going to grow rather tired masquerading as a herbivore.

That's traditional dieting advice. And I think it's exactly what Taubes disputes as pseudoscience. Admittedly the Taubes type diet appeals to my taste buds MUCH more than your friend's diet. The Taubes type diet also strikes me as an easier diet to stick with over the long run. Regardless, I think I should go with your friend's diet if it's truly healthier...

[-SWS]

As a very wise author of a great little read for T2 diabetics says often - All things in moderation... except laughter.

Calories mean less to me than carbs, fat and protein content, but find when I have the right ratio of the three I don't need to eat a big quantity. Fad diets are just that - fads.

Bacon is ok - in moderation, but it's better to find one without nitrates/nitrites - the less processing and chemicals added the better and that goes for all foods - packaged, processed, simple carb foods are the worst.

IMHO, when the medical community realises that the cholesterol in food is so different from that in your body - we would be free to eat more balanced meals with their blessing. Oh, and yes, food cholesterol does raise your HDL which is the GOOD one that want to be higher, and lowers the LDL, but THEY don't tell you that.

Cheers,
xena

Ah.. thanks for all of that advice... I especially like the longevity advice in red text.

[SleepingUgly]

NO, I didn't say the potato was better than the biscuit.

I was under the impression that regular potatoes and corn were practically the kiss of death.

Even a plain baked potato?

I think so... But I am the last person to ask. I did read Why We Get Fat by Taubes, but that was a very interesting read.

I'm still not sure if I should be eating as much nuts as I am...

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