OT: Unbelievable

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Tigger
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by Tigger » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:52 pm

I'm sorry I must have stumbled on the wrong web site. I thought this site was to help people with sleep apnea, not for political agendas.

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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by HoseCrusher » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:03 pm

SURPRISE... It looks like both sides are covered and available for discussion... Consider it a full meal deal.

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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by idamtnboy » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:03 pm

Hey Tigger, just think of this forum as a train with the cars carrying a variety of materials. Once in awhile it derails, but it will soon be back on track! The occasional foray into an insane discussion is what keeps it all sane!! You know the old adage, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy!" Well, here it is, "All on topic and no diversions makes the forum boring!"

If you don't agree, that's OK. We still like you! And who knows, maybe someday you will be the one proven to be the most correct!

Oh, and topic is labelled OT. That grants the OP a pass!

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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by hades161 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:10 pm

Russia Today offered a tortured and implausible interpretation of the federal bill (it isn't law yet) to explain how someone innocent could get into trouble, but that isn't what was intended or how I would expect the courts to interpret it. Considering that the Senate passed the bill unanimously and the House passed it 399-3, if it is nearly as bad as Russia Today thinks, then Congress has officially reached 99.4 percent evil. I pulled up the Illinois law. It is an old anti-eavesdropping statute that has, in a couple of cases, been used to prosecute people who have secretly recorded their conversations with police. To the best of my knowledge, no one has used it against open video recording of the police. ACLU is fighting this use of the law, which I agree is inappropriate; however, if ACLU hates it maybe some will decide this must be okay too.
The funny thing about "Hope" and "Belief" in law interpretation is that it's been proven time and time again that if something can be twisted around it WILL BE. This is why we have prosecutors trying to convict people who are in wheelchairs for drunk driving instead of public intoxication, because they interpret a wheelchair to be a motorized vehicle instead of the persons "LEGS" when they have none or don't function. This is just one example and there are many more including the earlier one from Illinois. The belief in the "spirit" of the law is great in theory but doesn't always pan out in courts. When linked with mandatory sentencing even IF a judge feels it's wrong his hands may be tied and be forced to follow the LETTER of the law and not the "Spirit". Take like 3 strike laws, nothing like having people serving life for 3 strikes on shoplifting. Its wrong to steal for sure but 25 to LIFE?

Cut from the article linked below.

The sentence imposed upon Ramirez for his three shoplifting offenses is more severe than the sentence he would have faced had any one of his three crimes been murder, manslaughter or rape," wrote Wardlaw, who was appointed by President Clinton. She was joined in her opinion by Judge John Noonan, appointed by President Reagan.

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/apr/20 ... -strikes20

I read the Bill on the .gov bill summary site and I came to the same interpretation as the story I linked, without any spin. I would link it but last I checked it was down. I always try to review a law or bill as close to the source as I can get. No it's not Law .... yet. Keyword big meaning.

P.S.

I know not on topic and not about Sleep issues but I look at these posts as a way to funnel the frustration of having these Sleep Issues and the fighting with the treatment and everything thing else that comes with being chronicly stuck on a hose =P. There for these threads are therapeutic venting for everyone who cares to explore OT threads.

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kempo
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by kempo » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:23 pm

idamtnboy wrote:
kempo wrote:It's about using Communist Chinese firms and workers to build our infrastructure in this country while our construction firms and workesr are out of work. That is what so unbelievable!
The point I'm trying to make is that with the attitude of US corporate leaders that it's laudable to cut business operation costs as low as possible regardless of the consequences on American workers, and state and local government agencies being on a tighter and tighter budgets, American workers are going to lose out to cheap foreign labor. It's been happening for years in manufacturing. Why is it surprising it's reaching into areas like construction? I didn't watch the video but I'll bet the construction work is being done by a state that is right-to-work and does not follow Davis-Bacon wage rules. Unless there has been some real serious loosening of contracting regulations in just the past few years, the construction work is not a Federal Government project. The Fed requires contractors to pay prevailing union labor rates, the Davis-Bacon rule, hence bringing in Chinese workers would cost more than American workers.

I don't like nor condone bringing in Chinese workers to build the American infrastructure. The way I see it, it is sadly the natural consequence of the business attitudes and policies of the past 50 years. You are right to be upset. We all should be. That's part of the frustration being displayed by the Occupy movement. It's time for some serious soul searching on the part of national business and political leaders.

Tax rates don't have the impact on the economy the anti-tax crowd tries to claim. The 1950s and 60s was a period of tremendous economic growth in the US, and the period of some of the highest tax rates ever. When tax rates were high investors put their money into capital investments to take advantage of depreciation tax breaks.
You need to watch the video idamtnboy. It is truely unbelievable.

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ameriken
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by ameriken » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:40 pm

Tigger wrote:I'm sorry I must have stumbled on the wrong web site. I thought this site was to help people with sleep apnea, not for political agendas.
With a single (one) OT (clearly labeled as "off topic") political thread and 49 (forty nine) other sleep apnea threads on just the front page of the site, how in the world did you come to the conclusion that the entire site was for political agendas and not sleep apnea?
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by Goofproof » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:41 pm

WARNING: Don't view OT Posts until your treatment has successfully kicked in. Doing so before may cause a INFO overload. Jim You have been warned!
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!

"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire

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rocklin
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by rocklin » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:56 am

Hi PST.
PST wrote:To the best of my knowledge, no one has used it against open video recording of the police.
What's the difference if the video camera I use to record police misconduct is held openly in my hand, or hidden in my lapel flower?

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CHICAGO SUN TIMES : (JUST POSTED)

Judge Stanley J. Sacks issued the ruling in the case of Christopher Drew, a Chicago artist who was charged with felony eavesdropping after he recorded his Dec. 2, 2009, arrest on State Street by Chicago Police.

“The Illinois Eavesdropping Statute potentially punishes as a felony a wide array of wholly innocent conduct,” he read.

“A parent making an audio recording of their child’s soccer game, but in doing so happens to record nearby conversations, would be in violation of the eavesdropping statute.”

Prosecutors now may appeal the judge’s ruling directly to the state’s Supreme Court.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1100 ... ional.html

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idamtnboy
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by idamtnboy » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:51 am

kempo wrote:You need to watch the video idamtnboy. It is truely unbelievable.
I watched it. I don't find it unbelievable at all. We've been heading in that direction for years. 15 years ago Uncle Sam had no choice but to buy castings for large pumps from China because no one here was doing that type of steel casting any more. The heads of large American corporations have for years been inexorably shipping work to Asia. There probably is a shortage of welders in the US now. Why would young men 10 years ago get into welding when welding jobs were disappearing due to automation and fabrication jobs were being sent overseas? And only University trained workers headed to Wall Street were considered worthy of adoration. Now when we need them, they aren't here. With everybody screaming get the projects going now the buyers don't want to wait until new welders can get trained.

The American infrastructure has been ignored for decades. Now that states have the money to replace bridges I can understand why they want to get the projects underway as fast as they can before DC politicians stop the flow of money. And I can understand why they want to buy as many pounds of steel for every dollar they can. That doesn't make it right by any means. Why lambast state politicians for doing now what corporations have been doing for years? Don't we want states to be run like businesses? There's plenty of blame to go around.

It sure would be nice if something like this serves as a wake up call to all our national leaders. In the unrelenting chase after the all mighty dollar with the attitude that average Joe and Jane be damned, our economy has been screwed up royally. I won't deny that part of the problem has been caused by union greed, but that certainly is not the case across the board. I live near a UP railroad line and often see the stereotypical high paid under worked employees in action. On the other hand my son works in a plant manufacturing steel parts for office furniture, an American job, making American products, for American companies. But he is paid a near starvation wage. That is just as unfair as over paying the railroad worker.

Buying bridges from China is sad, very sad. But don't place the blame solely on politicians. Place the blame where it belongs, on the shoulders of every American leader who is in a position of power to embrace greed while pushing everyone else out of the way so they can suck up the money of the less well off.

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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by hades161 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:18 am

Glad the Judge ruled the way he did. Its nice that people in prison for it already can Appeal. But as of yet it is still a Felony.

The "Trespass Bill' H.R. 347 is just a signature away from law.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-347

Better link.

I do agree with idamtnboy's post in full, except on one point.

I do not believe for a second that our Nation's Leaders or Corporations will "wake up" be it Democrat, Republican, Independent, Conservative, Liberal, CEO, Banker, Investor, Shareholder, or any other label in use. They all have an agenda both Personal and Political, even if they like the little guy called "The Working Class" he will get over looked when the "Mighty (Insert Favored Currency)" is on the table.

The reason I am focused on the Protest Laws is simple. I honestly believe that no matter who you vote for, no matter how diligently you try to "work" the system, that any true change will happen. All that's left is the ability to Protest. Only by Protesting long and loud to wake up enough people to say NO can we make changes that go against the idea of "Greed is good, so more Greed is Better". Like for example SOPA.

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rocklin
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by rocklin » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:58 am

Governments, just like corporations, have the God-given right to buy from the cheapest supplier, and anyone who complains about that right is a bed-wetting commie libtard.
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NightMonkey
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by NightMonkey » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:42 am

There are 600,000 highly paid, skilled manufacturing jobs open in the U.S. that manufacturers are having trouble filling. http://www.resourcemfg.com/news/2012/2/ ... staff.aspx

Let's face it, most today have a negative view of manufacturing and overlook opportunities. Manufacturing is seen as "nonglamorous" and "everyone" wants a white collar job requiring a bachelor's degree.

Of those 600,000 jobs the typical profile is:

- Start working at age 18
- In five years your income is $50,000 per year
- In ten years your income is $100,000 per year

You are 28 years old and making $100,000 per year! Invest a reasonable amount of your income and at the age of 58 - 63 you can retire very comfortably.

Such a career path requires an apprenticeship and/or some technical school training. This can be done without incurring college debt. You can already start investing small amounts for retirement in your early twenties.

Yes, you may have to relocate to a different area of the country. But guess what, college graduates who want to be successful also relocate.

I have a right to buy what I choose from overseas suppliers and so do you. All of us have the right to band together in a corporation and buy from wherever we choose.

It is a lie that manufacturing has been in decline in the U.S.

Manufacturing output in the U.S. continues to grow rapidly. No one is outpacing our growth and no one is as innovative and productive in manufacturing as the U.S.

Image

Be thankful that we can buy overseas and reduce the cost of massive bridges!
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by NightMonkey » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:49 am

PST wrote: . ACLU is fighting this use of the law, which I agree is inappropriate;

I hope you mean the law is inappropriate and the ACLU fighting is good.

Thank God for cell phone videos, the internet, and the ACLU. It would be better for our society if every citizen encounter with law enforcement were on video. We would get a higher conviction rate and the bad cops would quickly be weeded out.
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by NightMonkey » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:50 am

ameriken wrote:
Tigger wrote:I'm sorry I must have stumbled on the wrong web site. I thought this site was to help people with sleep apnea, not for political agendas.
With a single (one) OT (clearly labeled as "off topic") political thread and 49 (forty nine) other sleep apnea threads on just the front page of the site, how in the world did you come to the conclusion that the entire site was for political agendas and not sleep apnea?

Ditto to that ameriken.
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Re: OT: Unbelievable

Post by BlackSpinner » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:10 pm

And far more dangerous are the Girl Guides
Morris felt the need to warn fellow legislators of the organization's corrupting influence. The Girl Scouts, he wrote, is the "tactical arm" of Planned Parenthood. He called it a "radicalized" group with a homosexual agenda that promotes abortion while seeking "the destruction of traditional American values."

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