Water in lungs due to humidifier?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
SleepyBobR
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:42 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by SleepyBobR » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:50 am

Nah, the windy day analogy doesn't apply. Moisture is not "blown out of our mucous membranes" when using CPAP. Air volume and flow is a function of lung volume and respiration rate and is the same with or without therapy. The only difference is the pressure of the air, not flow rate. Clearly, some people benefit from humidification but I don't understand why unless they would have very dry nasal passages sleeping without CPAP as well. In that case I get it.

For those suffering with rain out and congestion, try a few nights without the humidifier before looking any further.
Worth a try.

_________________
Mask: Simplus Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: AirSense 10 AutoSet For Her @ 7-10

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 13229
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by LSAT » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:40 am

SleepyBobR wrote:Nah, the windy day analogy doesn't apply. Moisture is not "blown out of our mucous membranes" when using CPAP. Air volume and flow is a function of lung volume and respiration rate and is the same with or without therapy. The only difference is the pressure of the air, not flow rate. Clearly, some people benefit from humidification but I don't understand why unless they would have very dry nasal passages sleeping without CPAP as well. In that case I get it.

For those suffering with rain out and congestion, try a few nights without the humidifier before looking any further.
Worth a try.
I disagree....I'm with "the frog" on this one. Direct air flow into the nose will dry out the membranes. Why do they use fans to dry out wet basements?

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Fisher & Paykel Vitera Full Face Mask with Headgear (S, M, or L Cushion)
Additional Comments: Back up is S9 Autoset...... Buckwheat hull pillow

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34378
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:48 am

Stop trying to confuse the man with science!
Of course, leaks out of the top of my mask dry my eyes out really bad; and with no leak, my eyes are fine. Hmmmm.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
Lazer1234
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:08 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by Lazer1234 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:52 am

If you use the nasal pillow mask and no mouth breathing I do not see that there is a reason for it dries out the mucous membranes.

_________________
Mask: TAP PAP Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Improved Stability Mouthpiece
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: APAP 7,8 - 20 EPR 3 No Ramp ResScan 5.1 SleepyHead 0.9.8.1
Everything I write I translate through Google Translate.
Hope you have patience with that, sometimes it can get a little crazy.
/Lazer1234

User avatar
BlackSpinner
Posts: 9745
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:44 pm
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Contact:

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by BlackSpinner » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:09 am

Lazer1234 wrote:If you use the nasal pillow mask and no mouth breathing I do not see that there is a reason for it dries out the mucous membranes.
Maybe you don't see the reason but it does.

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Hybrid Full Face CPAP Mask with Nasal Pillows and Headgear
Additional Comments: Quatro mask for colds & flus S8 elite for back up
71. The lame can ride on horseback, the one-handed drive cattle. The deaf, fight and be useful. To be blind is better than to be burnt on the pyre. No one gets good from a corpse. The Havamal

bavinck
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:26 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by bavinck » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:13 am

It dries them out as you have more volume of less humid air constantly running through the mask, in nose and then out the mask vent. More volume means the capacity of the air to remove more moisture from the sinus area. Richard Feynman's book "Six Easy Pieces" describes this process brilliantly if you are interested.
Auto 9-15cm
SleepyHead v0.9.3

User avatar
zorki1c
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:24 pm
Location: Intermountain West

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by zorki1c » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:00 pm

avi123 wrote:No I don't feel any congestion in my lungs. I use the following:

Use distilled water.
Humidifier is set at 5 out of 8.
I keep room temperature at 75 F, so I don't need to use the climate controlled air hose.
Before going to sleep I use Waterpik Neti pot to clear my nose:

http://www.waterpik-store.com/detail/WAT+SWN-260

Wow! No way I could sleep with the room temp at 75 degrees. In the winter our room is at 62 degrees with my heated hose is set somewhere from 71 to 75 degrees.

_________________
MachineMask
Additional Comments: Use the P30i in the cooler months and the P10 the rest of the time.

User avatar
2 B Sleeping Soundly
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:24 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by 2 B Sleeping Soundly » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:21 pm

Just like PAP masks where one size or type doesn't work for everyone, humidifiers may or may not be necessary or work for you. My need to use an humidifier is not more validated just because I get someone else to agree that it is necessary. The fact that through trial and error it has been found to be of a great benefit for me should not be seen as a challenge to someone elses experience where it isn't for them, whether theirs is from personal experience or based on scientific principles.

IMO, it isn't complicated. The use of a humidifier works for me, if it doesn't work for you great. It is just that simple... no need for me to try to convince others that they should somehow need it or use it; we are all individuals.

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: EasyLife Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: 11-09-11 Start PAP therapy. Current settings: APAP 13cmH2O - 17cmH2O / Ramp, off / A-Flex, off / Respironics Premium Chin Strap / Sleepyhead Software
One time a cop pulled me over for running a stop sign. He said, "Didn't you see the stop sign?" I said, "Yeah, but I don't believe everything I read." -- Steven Wright

User avatar
robysue
Posts: 7520
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY
Contact:

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by robysue » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:49 pm

Lazer1234 wrote:If you use the nasal pillow mask and no mouth breathing I do not see that there is a reason for it dries out the mucous membranes.
Lazer1234,

You're like my brother: The CPAP air just doesn't bother the mucous membranes in his (or your) nose. And my brother long ago took the heated humidifier off his Resmed S8 and hooked the hose directly up to the blower unit.

But I tried one miserable night having the hose hooked up directly to my blower unit. The nose was painful the next morning, and the additional noise interfered with trying to get to sleep. (My System One seems to be much noisier if the hose is hooked directly to the blower unit instead of using it withe the humidifier.) And if I set my System One humidifer at 3 or below, I wake up with a nose that is painfully dry. At 4 my nose won't be painful, but it will not be particularly happy. At 5, my nose is content. And for me---the amount of sinus congestion I get tends to be less at 5 than it is at 3. But my brother is just the opposite---if he tried to use his heated humidifier at its maximum level, he'd be super congested.

In other words, whether a humidifier is useful or not really depends on the person PAPing. There's not a magic setting (including OFF) that works for everybody

_________________
Machine: DreamStation BiPAP® Auto Machine
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: PR System DreamStation and Humidifier. Max IPAP = 9, Min EPAP=4, Rise time setting = 3, minPS = 3, maxPS=5

User avatar
SleepyBobR
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:42 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by SleepyBobR » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:20 pm

2 B Sleeping and RobySue are correct. If the humidifier works for you then use it by all means. My suggestion to turn it off was for Cpapiscrap for whom the humidifier clearly isn't working. He may find he is better off without it, like me, and it costs nothing to try it. Chunkyfrog, other than the controlled leak through the vent, airflow through a CPAP is determined by your respiration; air is not blowing into your nose when you use CPAP. If it was you'd inflate like a balloon. And Spinner, of course a mask leak will irritate your eyes if the leak is aimed directly into it. That is a malfunction unrelated to the topic. Puncture a garden hose with the faucet open and the nozzle closed and you get the same effect.

_________________
Mask: Simplus Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: AirSense 10 AutoSet For Her @ 7-10

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 13229
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by LSAT » Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:19 pm

SleepyBobR wrote:2 B Sleeping and RobySue are correct. If the humidifier works for you then use it by all means. My suggestion to turn it off was for Cpapiscrap for whom the humidifier clearly isn't working. He may find he is better off without it, like me, and it costs nothing to try it. Chunkyfrog, other than the controlled leak through the vent, airflow through a CPAP is determined by your respiration; air is not blowing into your nose when you use CPAP. If it was you'd inflate like a balloon. And Spinner, of course a mask leak will irritate your eyes if the leak is aimed directly into it. That is a malfunction unrelated to the topic. Puncture a garden hose with the faucet open and the nozzle closed and you get the same effect.
Have you ever used a nasal pillow mask? CPAP = CONTINUOUS positive airway pressure.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Fisher & Paykel Vitera Full Face Mask with Headgear (S, M, or L Cushion)
Additional Comments: Back up is S9 Autoset...... Buckwheat hull pillow

User avatar
SleepyBobR
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:42 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by SleepyBobR » Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:47 pm

Yes, the pressure is continuous. The flow is not; it is variable and is determined by your breathing effort. If you stop breathing there is no airflow (other than through the vent) but the pressure throughout the system remains constant (continuous). This is how CPAP works.

_________________
Mask: Simplus Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: AirSense 10 AutoSet For Her @ 7-10

JHZR2
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:05 pm

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by JHZR2 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:28 pm

Yes but as the OP, I have a heated hose, the hose never gets logged with water, its purely a moisture/water in lungs issue.

The air with any humidity level feels thick and difficult to breathe, like breathing on a 100% humidity day vs when it is really dry.

Kind of have gotten used to the feeling, and it does indeed clear out. I generally keep the humidifier between 0 and 2 out of 10, which is more than sufficient. More ofter at the 0 setting, as the water gets some slight heating just from the electronics in the CPAP (F&P Icon).

schlaflos

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by schlaflos » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:15 am

YES! I often find myself waking with a watery feeling in my lungs, I havent been using the CPAP long but I have the moisture level on 2 and still I find myself with water lung and brain fog. Anyone else experience that?
Schlaflos

User avatar
Wulfman...
Posts: 6688
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:41 pm
Location: Nearest fishing spot

Re: Water in lungs due to humidifier?

Post by Wulfman... » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:28 am

schlaflos wrote:YES! I often find myself waking with a watery feeling in my lungs, I havent been using the CPAP long but I have the moisture level on 2 and still I find myself with water lung and brain fog. Anyone else experience that?
Schlaflos
Well, turn it DOWN or OFF (and leave the water in the tank).
I've had mine turned off since I started over 9 years ago and have never experienced "a watery feeling in my lungs".


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05