memory and cognitive relationship with apnea

[noSLEEPforYOU]

I have read numerous studies correlating the loss of cognitive abilities and memory with sleep deprivation and low oxygen. My question is how many here have noticed these problems and thought they had the beginning stages of Alzheimer disease?
I have been struggling for the last 6 yrs with one problem after another and never had an answer. My wife went into the hospital and I almost lost her, that started the depression which led to skin problems, weight gain and then stress ,anxiety more depression and then the memory problems. I was getting so depressed I was seeking a psychiatrist. I tried for years to get an appointment. The story was always the same, no answer, no call back, no new patients. I tied to get help from my primary who said that even though I am only 46 years old that I could have Alzheimer's, I was so depressed I was making myself sick. I would read everything trying to find other possibilities but never thought about apnea. When you search online everything comes back to a few possibilities. My depression was bad enough to affect memory but it's impossible to get any help with that. So I was talking to a plumber of all people who was describing his sleep problem. WHAT that sounds like me. I can't have sleep apnea my BMI is 20%. I went back to my doc who was convinced I had Alzheimer's or was a hypochondriac. He said you don't have that your too thin. I had the study and within a few hours they came running into the room to put a mask on me. The results came back with severe sleep apnea and the doctor said that I could have died. I had 140 events an hour. I was pissed, not the fact that I had it but the fact that my so called doctor never checked me for it. Now they're saying that I had this for over ten years.
Now the question is how long will it take for my memory to come back and how much damage was done to my brain? Why don't doctors know about this and how many millions of people never had alzheimers?

[sickwithapnea17]

I'm experiencing the same thing. None of my doctors would believe that I had bad sleep apnea because my BMI was 24 and I was in my early 30s.
But I've been having headaches, grogginess/fog for 2 days sometimes after bad apnea, and memory problems.
you really need to get a cpap/bipap as soon as possible. also what was your O2 level and sleep fragmentation?

[indyzoom]

I never got that far, but definitely knew I had a memory problem. If I didn't write something down, there was no way I'd remember it, even 5 or 10 minutes later. I never really thought about why this was happening, but this could definitely be a contributing factor and I'm interested to know as well how long before others regained their memory abilities.

Glad to hear you're finally getting the treatment you need. I would imagine getting a good, proper night's sleep on a regular basis will make you feel much better.

[MaxDarkside]

I had cognitive impairment and "Alzheimer's" like events. I had two significant "Alzheimer's" events after diagnosis with moderate to severe sleep apnea;

1. I was in Target (a large department store) with my wife and son and wandered off to another isle looking for something, but then I didn't know what, where I was, why I was there nor how to get back to my wife and son. Thank goodness I knew that I needed to. I was lost 1-2 isles over. It took a bit but then with some struggle remembered they were in "that direction" (not knowing what direction that was) and walked that way and saw familiar faces. For an executive of an analytical software company (like to be in control) that was scary.

2. A few days later I came out of a grocery store with my wife and was presented with a parking lot. I didn't know what it was, where I was, why I was there or what to do. After a few seconds of thinking hard, I realized that is where cars are and where my car was and needed to go to it. However I had no idea what kind of car I had, but I knew it was, again, "that way" and then it came back to me.

Cognitive problems is one reason I went to the doctor (along with about 10 other symptoms) but I could no longer function at my job and something had to be done. I've been on APAP for about 6+ weeks and most of my cognitive abilities have returned but still not at levels of a year or two ago. I'm still recovering and improving, as long as I have good compliance. If I screw up on my APAP treatment (take mask off for hours at night) then I step a few steps backwards.

How much damage is done probably has to do with your O2 sats and for how long you have been O2 deprived. In my case, probably years with excursions into the 70%'s.

I too am 6' 1" and 160 lbs. "Why are you here?" were questions from both the sleep tech at the study and also the Doctor. After the test, they clearly knew.

[Kitatonic]

Your story sounds so familiar to mine: disbelief to order testing (BMI=19), then desats to the 60s with the tech rushing in after two hours to initiate CPAP. Since it was such an "emergency" I insisted to be set up with a unit the next day. Now I've assured myself with home oximeter readings above 95 on three nights over the last three months.
As to your permanent damage, you're only 46, and I think our brains can re-perfuse other areas within all the unused capacity.

[Emilia]

I am so happy you are finally getting the help you need. I get so M.A.D. when I read about doctors who completely ignore symptoms of OSA simply because the patient presents as a 'fit' person. WHEN will the medical community acknowledge that sleep apnea can affect ANYONE, ANY SIZE, ANY AGE, ANY FITNESS LEVEL???????? My PCP never suggested sleep apnea to me for the 10 years I complained of what I now know to be CLEAR AND OBVIOUS symptoms. After my diagnosis by a cardiologist, who sent me for my sleep study, and subsequent guidance by a sleep doctor (pulmonologist), I returned to my PCP and I clearly and calmly laid my cards on the table about what I thought she had ignored and caused me to suffer. I told her that while it was too late for me, I sincerely hoped she would incorporate simple sleep disorder tests into her practice. Tests like the Epworth scale and overnight pulse oximetry tests are inexpensive and easy to do...yielding excellent data with which to proceed. She was open and receptive, and I can only hope she has done it. I sing my praises of cpap every time I see her for a regular visit.... just to keep her aware!

Now.... for myself, I was suffering from horrible cognitive abilities. Of course, I didn't know I was suffocating every night in bed! After only 3 days of cpap therapy, it was as if someone had cleared all the cobwebs from inside my head. I became aware of much improved memory and alertness. I still have my 'senior moments'....but I am a senior so it goes with the territory. I do keep my brain active with learning new things, playing word games, and taking B12 and D3 to help my brain function. I have no doubt you will recoup full function of your brain power.... you are young and now receiving the proper therapy.

You don't mention when this happened...but if you are new to cpap, please add your equipment to your profile in the User Control Panel (top left) in the Edit Equipment tab. If you need help of guidance with your machine or mask, how to get the data and read it to tweak your settings for optimal therapy, you have landed in the right place. Keep us posted on your progress.... and best of luck to you!

[noSLEEPforYOU]

I don't have a machine yet. The doctor has me scheduled for further testing. I remember my oxygen levels went down into the 70's . The doctor said he has never seen anyone skip through sleep stages like I do. He sent my results to a university with no name attached. I am new to this, but apparently I skip from 1 to 4 often but only spent 3 minutes in stage four. I don't have my results yet. I forgot to ask for them . I saw another guy here that had problems with getting a machine and my situation is similar. The doctor won't prescribe one until he gets everything right. But in the meantime I am suffocating every night.
I started doing online training to keep my brain working. I failed miserably. My memory and cognitive abilities are deplorable. I am still very fast and good at math, 40 equations a minute average. But when it comes to short term memory, what was I saying! I play that Simon game out to 11 but I used to be in the 20's.
I know I have a few words to say to my doctor. My wife says she has to go with me so I don't get out of control.
The last five years have been hell and the doctor should have caught the problem. I went to that office over thirty times in the last five years complaining about everything connected to sleep apnea.

[RocketGirl]

So glad you're finally getting the help you need. It was something like that for me too, to the point that to function at work I had to get in the habit of taking notes on everything, including what I said in meetings, what other people said, what we agreed upon, what I had to accomplish, what the deadlines were... you get the idea. In my case, no one suggested sleep apnea either, even though I told my doctor over and over how tired I felt, how i woke unrested, the whole familiar litany. Part of the problem for me was that I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia 20 years ago, and many of the symptoms are similar (and possibly related, I think). But once you have a diagnosis of a condition like that, the tendency is for everyone to attribute ANY tiredness, stiffness, cognitive difficulty, lack of coordination, or memory loss to fibro and look no further.

Early on after the fibro diagnosis, things were so bad that my doctor told me flatly that I'd be on disability within a few years despite all my coping efforts. I feel like I totally lost over 15 years of my life due to the persistent fog and the struggle just to remain functional. Now that I'm on cpap, the reaction times are improving and so is the memory.

One wry benefit of all that coping, though, is that I have a reputation for my fiendishly detailed note-taking at work - if there is any disagreement about what was decided in any given meeting, they know that I'll have the entire discussion down in my book

Edit to add: Rheumatologists are another type of specialist who should be sensitized to the possibility of sleep apnea, since they're often the ones who diagnose fibromyalgia. Mine was a very good doctor, but the standard treatment for fibro can routinely include prescriptions for sleeping medications and muscle relaxants - and from what I see here, a depressed CNS is definitely NOT what you want if you have untreated apnea. (I rejected the meds because I couldn't function while on them, but it's kind of scary to think what I could have been doing to my heart, had I taken them.)

[sickwithapnea17]

I'm curious has anyone had 100% recovery of mental abilities/cognition that they lost from using cpap/bipap?
yeah I've had similar problems with memory and losing my place geographically and learning issues and it's compounded by my other diseases
doesn't Nuvigil mess up your brain?

[M.D.Hosehead]

OP, you ask how much damage was done to your organs and how long it will take to recover your cognitive function.

Unfortunately, no one knows the answer. Some people have noticed an early, dramatic improvement, in a few days or a week. Probably it's more common for it to be gradual. Someone posted here that after a year they were still getting better.

That assumes the cognitive impairment is due to sleep apnea. I hope your doctor checked other possibilities, such as, thyroid, iron, B12 and Vitamin D levels. I also assumes you aren't taking meds that cause cognitive impairment.

[idamtnboy]

That assumes the cognitive impairment is due to sleep apnea. I hope your doctor checked other possibilities, such as, thyroid, iron, B12 and Vitamin D levels. I also assumes you aren't taking meds that cause cognitive impairment.

I'm convinced another possible cause of memory problems is anesthesia during surgery. I had hernia surgery several years ago and was put under all the way. I really believe that my short term memory capability suffered a step down loss at that point. My veterinarian brother says it can happen. My cardiologist says it does not. My experience leads me to say it does. Whose right? All of us, or none of us? Would be nice to know!

I can set an object on the table next to the door so I'll remember to take it to town in a few minutes. I'll go to the bathroom, or get a drink, or do something else for 2 minutes. I'll then walk out the door right past the object and leave it behind. That memory problem has not improved with 16 months of CPAP. Another thing I'm losing, it seems like, is vocabulary. The storage drawers for words are getting sticky in my brain. It took me several seconds to remember the word anesthesia when I went to write it above. That problem does not seem to be improving with CPAP.

My niece is dealing with her mother's onset of apparent Alzheimer's and we were talking about her. I mentioned my short term memory problem. She said that if I suddenly remember the forgotten item, like by getting into the car, or remembering the object on the table when I get to a store, that is not Alzheimer's. With Alzheimer's the forgotten item is not triggered back into memory in that fashion. If that is really the case I don't know, but it makes sense.

All this makes me kind of wonder what sort of memory problems are caused by apnea, and solved by CPAP therapy.

[jmcd]

My issues weren't as varied or severe. I initially saw a sleep specialist because I would get so tired during the day. Twice when chatting with close friends on the phone I sort of dozed off or momentarily blacked out and caught myself responding based on something I "dreamed" in that moment. I know that sounds weird. Believe me, it was scary. I am a consultant and spend a lot of time in my car driving around the state to visit clients. I was having to add additional time to my travel so I could stop and "power nap" if I had to drive for more than an hour. I was noticing that I was having trouble organizing my work and being productive. After 9 months on CPAP, using it consistently with data looking good and feeling rested when I woke up in the morning, I went back to my sleep doctor. His response was to order another sleep study. I opted not to do that. I saw my general practitioner and was telling him about the trouble I was having and he prescribed Nuvigil. He described it as medication that would "wake up" my brain. What an incredible difference it has made. I feel "normal" again. Still use my CPAP faithfully but I only get tired at the end of the day when most people are tired.

[feeling_better]

Many of the above posts in this thread are supported by sleep experts' claim that only about 10-20% of all sleep apnea cases are diagnosed at all. Most docs do not have enough knowledge about it; there are a lot of prevailing myths: if you are thin you wont have apnea, if you are young you wont have apnea, if you are woman you wont have apena, if you are an athlete you wont have apnea. When you search the threads here you would find first hand stories of many very severe cases of apnea in all those categories.

As for apena and memory impairment [Some of the earlier med articles have been sited here in previous posts and discussed before; this is a quick review of my view of the current thinking among (some) medical experts]:
Apnea (as well as some other medical conditions) cause blood oxygen deprivation. When brain remains starved for oxygen for extended cumulative periods of time, some areas atrophy similar to muscle atrophy. The remaining functioning portion of the brain has been described as resembling swiss cheese, actually seen in scans. Depending on which particular region of the brain became dysfunctional, one may have one more diseases caused by this! This could be strokes, diabetes, hypertension, heart attack, or memory loss. At least one expert has conjectured that this is how possibly all diseases (other than bacterial/virtul ones) are started!!

And finally, on an optimistic note -- the very modern neurologists' finding: The brain just like muscle, perhaps even more so, regenerates; with continued increased oxygen levels and proper exercises that forces the brain to have to learn new things, just like the babies' brain, new path ways, and even memory, is dramatically improved in the brain. The dramatic stroke recovery even after severe episodes by relearning with continued physical / speech / mental training is an example of this. So more than likely continued effective therapy with cpap and better and longer sleep may result in better memory too, if that was the cause of the original decline.

feeling_better

[noSLEEPforYOU]

I struggled for years with sleepiness and managed to drag my as-- to work. Some days I work longer hours and only put down eight. I know how much I am expected to accomplish and can't justify my piss poor performance. The doctor would always claim the obvious, you're getting older. The funny thing is I was always in excellent shape and worked with guys older than me. His constant dismissal of my complaints forced me to find other possibilities. I constantly hear people saying you have to be your own advocate. Why is it we pay these doctors? I found another potential sufferer at a New Years party. I was talking about my problem with my cousin and this guy says, I wake up gasping for air all the time. We then begin to talk and he was told the same irresponsible crap from his doctor. He was in three accidents in the last two years, and doesn't remember what happened.
My personal memory problem has other possible causes. I have severe depression, my doctor had me convinced I had early onset Alzheimer's. I have panic attacks and anxiety. All of these problems are connected to sleep deprivation and I am hoping for a miracle. My problem has good and bad days. Now that I am paying attention, the bad days coincide with too much sleep. I know that sounds stupid unless you take into consideration that the longer I sleep the longer I go without oxygen. For years my wife has commented that I am always miserable on the weekends. That's because I usually sleep longer on the weekends.
I have been staging my sleep, trying to minimize the length of time I go without Oxygen.

I would like to know how many people diagnosed with Alzheimer never had it.

[Guest]

my problem is that I never feel normal anymore and keep having fog and memory problems. It seems that this disease really messes up your hormones. I also have recurring infections and have taken a long time to recover from this last one. I'm not sure if it was an antibiotic resistant one or was due to too many asthma steroids.