Build Home Sleep Lab < $1000

[moresleep]

Professional home sleep test equipment is now available for under $2000. For example, the MediByte Junior http://www.braebon.com/docs/BRAEBON%20HST%20QA.pdf

There are plenty of compact, accurate brands available and many more models are coming. This competition will drive the prices down.

In three years or less the prices will be under $1000. $600 is not out of reach.

I hope a used market develops quickly.

CPAP manufacturers may be forced by competition to include more data (oximetry, heart rate, ...) with the CPAP machines.

The MediByte is quite impressive. Do you know what they mean by it being able to interface with Cpap machines?

"Is the MediByte compatible with CPAP?
Yes, both the MediByte and MediByte Junior can be connected to any CPAP for recording flow, snoring,
and CPAP pressure."

[NapsZ]

It would be great to be able to add more sensors to existing CPAP machines. I mean, the person's already got a 6 foot long tube attached to their face every night, what's a few extra sensors? An earlobe oximeter attached to the mask would be super handy .. yeah and maybe a chest strap branching off the tube? That and the CPAP machine already contains a stable power source, clock, computer, SD card ...

[Jay Aitchsee]

NightMonkey, jamiswolf, NapsZ,

I agree the equipment's coming with some pretty good stuff already on the new and used market.

It does make sense to use the PAP machine as the core machine and add a few more sensors. I, too, think we'll see more capability included with next generation PAP. It seems to me that ResMed kind of opened the door with the S9 and making their software available to essentially anybody.

The Medibyte looks cool, too. No EEG though, although they did mention open channels for that sort of thing - plug in the Zeo? Certainly not totally unreasonable price. It's looks kind of like what NapZ proposed in his original post-a central unit to gather and sync info from various sensors.

I think we might also benefit from players like Zeo and FitBit, http://www.fitbit.com/ , entering the market. Fairly sophisticated machines with low price points. No Rx required. Get the stuff out of the hands of the DME's and we'd all benefit.

Jay

[moresleep]

Reading the MediByte brochure more carefully, I see it collects Cpap flow data simply by plugging a tube into an O2-type cannula that you put in series with the Cpap hose. An Auto Cpap these days is close to the MediByte in its ability to record data; but, still isn't there. The MediByte, though, would put it all together.

$2200 is still a bit pricy, though, for us non-millionaires. That used market needs to develop. I want a MediByte!

[Jay Aitchsee]

Me too!

[NightMonkey]

Here is a review of some of the HSTs that were available two years ago - http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/issues/pd ... ide_09.pdf

All of those companies are banging heads for market share. Every model that has been introduced in the last two years is cheaper that its predecessor.

Get the stuff out of the hands of the DME's and we'd all benefit.

Jay

Yes! All of this equipment should be OTC. Some heads at the FDA will have to be crushed to get this done. (Figuratively speaking, although the literal feeling is in me at times.)

[Guest]

Wow thats some good work and setup. Very interesting stuff.


I was diagnosed with severe osa in 2008. Lost some weight and feel like I sleep better, but, I still wake up every 2 hours on the dot. I like yourself do not get much deep sleep. I had a high amount of REM sleep. I had a second sleep study to determine why I wake up every 2 hours. This time, my osa was mild and did not qualify for cpap. Yet, they still were not able to tell me why I wake up every 2 hours and my deep sleep is still too low. Thus, I actually did my own little sleep study. I did the webcam thing like you did and wore my oximeter. I was not able to determine very much though other then what my saturations were and the events.

Your setup is way better. How are you able to determine your stages of sleep and the timing in each?
Were your saturation levels you posted of a basal of 94.6% on cpap or without cpap?

Good stuff man

[Jay Aitchsee]

Liz, if you're watching, I thought you might be interested in this. This is a shot of a night where I got a little more deep sleep. The Zeo reported 17 minutes, but the default graph (in the middle) only shows about 5. Curious as to where the rest of it was, I downloaded the detailed data and graphed it (in blue). The detailed data is in 30 sec intervals. The default graph is in 5 minute intervals. The downloaded info is kind of a mirror of what we're used to for sleep graphs but you can see the legend.

Anyway, there's my deep sleep right where it should be at the end of the first sleep cycle before REM. Only problem is that it is fractured. Any duration would have to be longer than 2.5 minutes to show up on the default graph. Finally, toward the end of the night I get some fairly uninterrupted deep sleep.

Before Zeo, I thought REM was interrupting my deep sleep, but clearly it's not. Doesn't appear to be apnea either. I didn't show it, but there are no leaks or abnormal pressures during this time. So...? Maybe pain?

BTW, the download part is easy. You just select "export data" from the website and you get all the data to date that you've uploaded.

Jay

[Jay Aitchsee]

Wow thats some good work and setup. Very interesting stuff....

Your setup is way better. How are you able to determine your stages of sleep and the timing in each?
Were your saturation levels you posted of a basal of 94.6% on cpap or without cpap?

Good stuff man

Thanks,

The Zeo determines sleep stage with a time line reference. The data presented was with CPAP.

J

[Axxel]

Jay, so since your able to measure your own rem and deep sleep with that device, is there anyway to increase or decrease those stages of sleep?

I have high REM and low deep sleep. Would be so nice to get some deep sleep.

[Jay Aitchsee]

Axel, that's exactly what I'm tyring to do - increase my deep sleep. I really don't know why I don't get any. A few theories: I had untreated apnea so long it permanently changed my sleep architecture, or being heavy drinking alcoholic (now abstinent) for years permanently changed my sleep architecture, or ongoing severe PLMD (diagnosed) causes arousals, or ongoing continual low back pain causes arousals, or ....?
Anyway, I practice all the good sleep hygiene techniques I can, like no caffeine after 11 AM, no naps, exercise daily, dark cold room, etc, etc. without success, so I'm methodically looking for a drug that might help. I have tried most of them in the past, but I had no way to monitor my sleep and I wasn't cpap compliant so I really don't know that one of them could have helped. So, I'm going through them again.
Since I've had my Zeo, I've tried three drugs and none have worked. I'm not sure it would be fair to name them since they might work for somebody. Anyway, all three are commonly prescribed for sleep disturbances. All three had similar effects; they tended to decrease deep, increase REM, and increase the number of wakenings. So, the search continues. If I find a one that works, I'll definitely post it.
Meantime, for you, I'd suggest the Zeo. In the short time I've owned it, I've become a believer. The results are consistent and objective. Although I know it's not 100% accurate, I think it does well enough to cut drug trials down to weeks instead of months and that's a good thing.
I hope you find something that helps,
Jay

[Axxel]

Axel, that's exactly what I'm tyring to do - increase my deep sleep. I really don't know why I don't get any. A few theories: I had untreated apnea so long it permanently changed my sleep architecture, or being heavy drinking alcoholic (now abstinent) for years permanently changed my sleep architecture, or ongoing severe PLMD (diagnosed) causes arousals, or ongoing continual low back pain causes arousals, or ....?
Anyway, I practice all the good sleep hygiene techniques I can, like no caffeine after 11 AM, no naps, exercise daily, dark cold room, etc, etc. without success, so I'm methodically looking for a drug that might help. I have tried most of them in the past, but I had no way to monitor my sleep and I wasn't cpap compliant so I really don't know that one of them could have helped. So, I'm going through them again.
Since I've had my Zeo, I've tried three drugs and none have worked. I'm not sure it would be fair to name them since they might work for somebody. Anyway, all three are commonly prescribed for sleep disturbances. All three had similar effects; they tended to decrease deep, increase REM, and increase the number of wakenings. So, the search continues. If I find a one that works, I'll definitely post it.
Meantime, for you, I'd suggest the Zeo. In the short time I've owned it, I've become a believer. The results are consistent and objective. Although I know it's not 100% accurate, I think it does well enough to cut drug trials down to weeks instead of months and that's a good thing.
I hope you find something that helps,
Jay

Were the 3 sleeping drugs you tried prescription or otc?
My Dr wont prescribe me any of the typical sleeping drugs, since they make the airways relax more and can worsen the apnea. I can attest to it because I took an ambien from my mother and boy did I stop breathing alot those nights.

Its difficult to know what to do or try. There are so many theories out there that can cause apnea/sleep disturbances. I have read articles about low seratonin levels as a possible cause of apneas. Thyroid issues. Acid reflux. And of course anxiety and depression. Of course everyones cause may be different.

Sounds like you are going thru the process of elimination.
I myself have not eliminated all of them yet. I am going to have thyroid checked and the reg blood panel.
The strangest thing about my situation is when my osa was severe, I could still sleep for 4 or 5 hours without waking up. Since it has been downgraded to mild, I began waking up every 2 hours. Ready to pull hairs out
I do plan on purchasing the Zeo.

Best wishes
Keep us posted

[Jay Aitchsee]

Axel,
I don't know of any OTC drugs that will increase deep sleep. There are very few drugs that I know of that will promote deep sleep. In fact, I know of none. A few Rx sleeping pills are thought not to inhibit deep sleep, Ambien being one. Sedatives put you to sleep but many inhibit deep sleep. The drugs I have taken have been to target the PLMD but many of those drugs (anti-siezure) also inhibit deep sleep, That's why so many people don't feel any better (hung over) when they take them.
You mentioned a lot of possibilities for non-restorative sleep and that's the problem. You just have to rule them out one by one. I would start by becoming cpap compliant, that's probably the easiest. Rule out apnea and you can move on. It's a real tough problem. Lack of sleep causes many of the things that cause lack of sleep. Circular. Many of the treatments for things lack of sleep causes cause lack of sleep, but I'm convinced that if one keeps at it, it can be licked!
Good luck to you,
Jay

see here for an earlier post on meds viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68121&p=632998#p632998

[Lizistired]

GRRRR hate it when a post disappears.
Hi Jay,
I got my ZEO yesterday. I'm impressed with how user friendly the console is.
I bought a used one and myzeo.com won't let me log in. So I emailed customer support and hopefully they will reset it on Monday.
Last night wasn't a good first night... friday night sleep hygiene issues. That may explain only 9% deep sleep.
It slipped off my head for about an hour but I still got 7 hours of data.
With the console graph, I was able to confirm what I thought was REM in ResScan. It also appears that my leaks happen mostly in deep sleep. Something to watch.
So far so good.

[Jay Aitchsee]

Hi Jay,
I got my ZEO yesterday.

Cool!!

I'm impressed with how user friendly the console is.
I bought a used one and myzeo.com won't let me log in. So I emailed customer support and hopefully they will reset it on Monday.

I hope you get logged on. The website is really good. Keeping track of trends, etc. And the coaching for sleep hygiene

Last night wasn't a good first night... friday night sleep hygiene issues. That may explain only 9% deep sleep.

I'd kill for 9% Did you see my above post where I found mine?

It slipped off my head for about an hour but I still got 7 hours of data.

Yeah, I had a little trouble with that too, at first; but then I incorporated the sensor/sender into my regular headgear and no problems.

With the console graph, I was able to confirm what I thought was REM in ResScan. It also appears that my leaks happen mostly in deep sleep. Something to watch.
So far so good.

Neat, isn't it?

I've just been working at merging the downloaded Zeo data (sleep stages) with the downloaded ResScan Data (AI,HI, Pressure, Leaks) just to see if there's a relationship. So far, I have the data from the end of June thru yesterday from both sources into two separate spreadsheets, but I haven't put them together yet. I'm using OpenOffice and I'm still learning. I've used the draw function a lot for some design work I did, but I don't have more than basic knowledge and experience using spreadsheat and charting funtions of any kind, so it takes me a while. Probably won't be that useful, but I just love charts and graphs!

Keeps us posted on how it's going with the Zeo (I knew you'd like it).
Jay