Poll: Should OT posts be banned from cpaptalk.com?

[PST]

Both of you stop it. Starvation, violence, hate, cruelty; these things are not being ignored, we are fighting them, it is not getting worse overall, the state of humanity is in the best condition it has ever been. You're both looking at the same glass and seeing it as half empty when the reality of it is that it's fuller than it's ever been. These are the good old days.

Political right or political left if you disagree please reference a time and place in Human History when it was better for ALL of mankind for us so that we might study it as a model for our future behavior.

"Garden of Eden", before the Snake infestation.

I'd like to think its getting better, but I don't believe it is. The world is getting smaller due to the electronics age. Man has prefected, mans abuse to his fellow man to a science, unlike in the past we are electronicly plugged in. We are now taught, we aren't responsible for what we do, while news and magazines sensationalize it to gain a audience.

A high percentage all the population watch with their heads in the sand. We as children never would have thought about going into a school to kill teachers or our classmates something has changed about how we value others.

I certainly remember singing a version of this little ditty (quoted from Wikipedia) 50 years ago:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school
We have tortured all the teachers - we have broken all the rules
We ramrocked the offices and hung the principal
March on, third grade, march on!
Glory, glory, hallelujah
My teacher hit me with a ruler
I hid behind her door with a loaded .44
And the teacher don't teach no more!

I understand the difference between fantasy and reality, but no one can say we didn't think about it. Fighting and bullying were constants as well. Every year when the movie of Jean Shepherd's A Christmas Story plays I am reminded of how accurate a picture it paints, after you strip away the nostalgic haze, of what school could be like in the '60s. Moreover, the most lethal school massacre in American history is still one from 1927. Between the tendency we all have to idealize the good old days, and the fact that any outrage that occurs in a corner of this land of 315 million people is instantly known in every other corner, it is no wonder we think the world is going to the dogs. All us grumpy old men tend toward that mistake.

A guy named Steven Pinker wrote a good book a couple of years ago that actually tried to measure the violence of societies through the ages. It is difficult, of course, to weigh the toll of constant, low-tech war among tribes against the mass horrors of the 20th century, but he marshals convincing historical and statistical evidence that an individual's exposure to violence and murder has been diminishing for centuries, subject, of course, to some local peaks and valleys. I find the argument he makes in his book, The Better Angels of Our Nature, much more convincing than any conclusion about trends in violence based on my memories or those of others, limited as they are in time and place.

[woodworkerjunkie]

Julie...What on earth makes you think people who don't subscribe to organized Christian religion (or any other religion) have no moral values?
John...Such thinking is why many people turn away from organized religion.
What thinking is that? Tammy Faye and Jimmy Baker espoused it. Prosperity Christianity. Believe and God will give your all you need. The Vending Machine God. Stick in a prayer and out pops all your needs. It tends to yield Christians that are lazy in putting their faith into action.

I never mentioned anything about "organized religion", you can be a Christian without belonging to a church or a certain denomination! A person can read the bible at home and believe on their own. Maybe you need to consider the difference! http://www.theexaminer.org/volume8/number1/organize.htm John, there is a difference in asking God for worldly goods and asking God to give you strength to fight a illness or to comfort someone that is hurting! God will give a person what they need, not what they want. It may not even be what the person "thinks" they need. God gave man "free will", it's not an orchestrated script that we are living out. Man makes his own decisions, good or bad, lives his life as he sees fit, good or bad.

Julie... giving nonbelievers a hard time because they choose to not honor stories about gardens, snakes, arcs, fire and brimstone, rods, pillars of salt, etc. etc., allegories though they may be, is not right either. We have morals and values and all those other good things you believe you have special rights to, but we choose to follow them not because they were handed down from heaven (or hell) by gods, but because they make good sense, are simply 'right', give appropriate results when carried out properly and because people are generally good to begin with...

I state my opinion and beliefs about what is happening in the USA and you (being from Canada) think I'm giving you a hard time! If you don't want to believe in God, that is your choice, but, don't try to pretend that most or our original laws were not based on the very principles of the bible (read the 10 commandments)! The bible was written long before the United States and Canada was ever even known about. The bible speaks of how a person is to live their life, including laws that both of our countries enforce! The morals and good values that you talk about, have been taught to the younger generations throughout the years, that's how these values came about!

they just get corrupted as they grow up by others who are greedy, power hungry, blood thirsty, etc., many (if not most) of whom consider themselves to be Christian (or pick another name).

They call themselves Christians (or pick another name), but that doesn't mean they are Christians. Ever heard of a wolf in sheep's clothing? Ever seen a Republican jump over to the Democrats side or vise versa? Ever heard about false prophets? Do you not believe there are non believers that do these exact same things?

Julie...God is a man-made concept! Children were taught the fairy stories long ago to 'reach' them where they live (in fantasy filled childhood), but why do adults persist in carrying on with the stories as adults - you no longer believe in Santa, why go on believing in the other stories? Makes no sense to me!

Please show me the proof, so that I can quite wasting my time believing in fairy tales! I've got a bible that tells me otherwise, what have you got that proves he is a man made concept? Just you stating it?

John...The problem with thinking that God is the ultimate vending machine is that reality differs dramatically from wishful thinking. Horrible things happen all the time to very good people. Is that God's doing? Really?? Is your God that small and mean spirited?

We should NEVER equate lack of faith in God with lack of decency. Many, many people without a belief in God try to make the world a far better world. And WAY too many people with faith are content to do NOTHING. We all know it's true. Some people (with or without faith) reach out and help their fellow men. And far too many people (with or without faith) could not be bothered, even if it is their family. As Douglass Adams put it, some people are just Vogons:

Again I will point out to people that when a general statement is made, don't try to make it all inclusive. Yes, Horrible things happen to good and bad people! "Is it God's doing?"... no! "Is your God that small and mean spirited?" He is everyone's God, whether they believe in him or not, not just my God! As stated above, God gave man free will to live his life as he sees fit. The choices that someone makes can't be blamed on him! ex. You could live your life perfectly, then out of nowhere, someone else decides to drink and drive and hits you head on, making you dependent on others for the rest of your life. Was it your fault? No, but, yes, more so, than it was God's fault! If you had left 10 minutes later or earlier, you wouldn't have been there at the exact time the accident happened! That was your decision, not God's! My boss was in an accident around the 15 of December, 12 broken ribs, broken wrist, punctured lung. He laid on the ground in 20 degree temps. for almost 3 hours before anyone found him, toes and fingers frost bit. Did he get mad and blame God? No... he posted on FB that his work for God must not be done yet, or the Lord would have taken him home!

There are good and bad traits in each and every person on this earth. Christians don't claim to be perfect, for we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. But, as a Christian, we are to try to live our lives following the teachings of the bible to the best of our abilities! I will never claim to be the perfect Christian, so don't try to point out the faults of Christians, if your not willing to be judged yourself! Some of you seem to think, that to claim ourself as a Christian we must be perfect, without flaw!

Go back to my first post, did I not state, that when someone mentions God or the bible, people will jump on and start trying to make them feel like a second rate citizen? Thank you for proving my point! My point was when you take away the material that teaches people good moral values, to be honest, to be kind to other people...etc., and the parents are to busy in this hectic world, where else are they going to learn it? If they are not taught these values growing up, what kind of people do you think they are going to become?

[mgaggie]

As Douglass Adams put it, some people are just Vogons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbN1NaQ7yQI

I want that in triplicate John

Sorry couldn't help myself

[Vader]

Julie...What on earth makes you think people who don't subscribe to organized Christian religion (or any other religion) have no moral values?
John...Such thinking is why many people turn away from organized religion.
What thinking is that? Tammy Faye and Jimmy Baker espoused it. Prosperity Christianity. Believe and God will give your all you need. The Vending Machine God. Stick in a prayer and out pops all your needs. It tends to yield Christians that are lazy in putting their faith into action.

I never mentioned anything about "organized religion", you can be a Christian without belonging to a church or a certain denomination! A person can read the bible at home and believe on their own. Maybe you need to consider the difference! http://www.theexaminer.org/volume8/number1/organize.htm John, there is a difference in asking God for worldly goods and asking God to give you strength to fight a illness or to comfort someone that is hurting! God will give a person what they need, not what they want. It may not even be what the person "thinks" they need. God gave man "free will", it's not an orchestrated script that we are living out. Man makes his own decisions, good or bad, lives his life as he sees fit, good or bad.

Julie... giving nonbelievers a hard time because they choose to not honor stories about gardens, snakes, arcs, fire and brimstone, rods, pillars of salt, etc. etc., allegories though they may be, is not right either. We have morals and values and all those other good things you believe you have special rights to, but we choose to follow them not because they were handed down from heaven (or hell) by gods, but because they make good sense, are simply 'right', give appropriate results when carried out properly and because people are generally good to begin with...

I state my opinion and beliefs about what is happening in the USA and you (being from Canada) think I'm giving you a hard time! If you don't want to believe in God, that is your choice, but, don't try to pretend that most or our original laws were not based on the very principles of the bible (read the 10 commandments)! The bible was written long before the United States and Canada was ever even known about. The bible speaks of how a person is to live their life, including laws that both of our countries enforce! The morals and good values that you talk about, have been taught to the younger generations throughout the years, that's how these values came about!

they just get corrupted as they grow up by others who are greedy, power hungry, blood thirsty, etc., many (if not most) of whom consider themselves to be Christian (or pick another name).

They call themselves Christians (or pick another name), but that doesn't mean they are Christians. Ever heard of a wolf in sheep's clothing? Ever seen a Republican jump over to the Democrats side or vise versa? Ever heard about false prophets? Do you not believe there are non believers that do these exact same things?

Julie...God is a man-made concept! Children were taught the fairy stories long ago to 'reach' them where they live (in fantasy filled childhood), but why do adults persist in carrying on with the stories as adults - you no longer believe in Santa, why go on believing in the other stories? Makes no sense to me!

Please show me the proof, so that I can quite wasting my time believing in fairy tales! I've got a bible that tells me otherwise, what have you got that proves he is a man made concept? Just you stating it?

John...The problem with thinking that God is the ultimate vending machine is that reality differs dramatically from wishful thinking. Horrible things happen all the time to very good people. Is that God's doing? Really?? Is your God that small and mean spirited?

We should NEVER equate lack of faith in God with lack of decency. Many, many people without a belief in God try to make the world a far better world. And WAY too many people with faith are content to do NOTHING. We all know it's true. Some people (with or without faith) reach out and help their fellow men. And far too many people (with or without faith) could not be bothered, even if it is their family. As Douglass Adams put it, some people are just Vogons:

Again I will point out to people that when a general statement is made, don't try to make it all inclusive. Yes, Horrible things happen to good and bad people! "Is it God's doing?"... no! "Is your God that small and mean spirited?" He is everyone's God, whether they believe in him or not, not just my God! As stated above, God gave man free will to live his life as he sees fit. The choices that someone makes can't be blamed on him! ex. You could live your life perfectly, then out of nowhere, someone else decides to drink and drive and hits you head on, making you dependent on others for the rest of your life. Was it your fault? No, but, yes, more so, than it was God's fault! If you had left 10 minutes later or earlier, you wouldn't have been there at the exact time the accident happened! That was your decision, not God's! My boss was in an accident around the 15 of December, 12 broken ribs, broken wrist, punctured lung. He laid on the ground in 20 degree temps. for almost 3 hours before anyone found him, toes and fingers frost bit. Did he get mad and blame God? No... he posted on FB that his work for God must not be done yet, or the Lord would have taken him home!

There are good and bad traits in each and every person on this earth. Christians don't claim to be perfect, for we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. But, as a Christian, we are to try to live our lives following the teachings of the bible to the best of our abilities! I will never claim to be the perfect Christian, so don't try to point out the faults of Christians, if your not willing to be judged yourself! Some of you seem to think, that to claim ourself as a Christian we must be perfect, without flaw!

Go back to my first post, did I not state, that when someone mentions God or the bible, people will jump on and start trying to make them feel like a second rate citizen? Thank you for proving my point! My point was when you take away the material that teaches people good moral values, to be honest, to be kind to other people...etc., and the parents are to busy in this hectic world, where else are they going to learn it? If they are not taught these values growing up, what kind of people do you think they are going to become?

Amen, Brother.
You've got far more patience than I. Very well stated!

[popcpoo]

Personally, I am not bothered by the OT posts. What bothers me, and almost drove me away from here is the occasional sniping and offensive comments that take place. Like everyone else, I came here looking for help, and have found it. Being a relatively new XPAP user (five months), I try not to give advice unless it is something simple like expressing my personal opinion about certain masks or dealing with Medicare requirements. I fought that battle for almost nine months before I finally got a machine and started treatment. I have found the advice offered here to be very useful. Sometimes, I have problems, but think it too small of an issue to post here and ask for help, then within a few days I will see someone else posts that problem and others answer clearly and logically on how to solve it. As my wife likes to say, I am just a stubborn, old man who is too dumb to ask for help.

[chunkyfrog]

I "audited" the forum (lurked) for several months before I joined.
I gleaned much useful advice from the amazing, wise people here.
From the OT threads, I learned (and still do) much about the personalities here.
Human nature is very "interesting".

[deerslayer]

& Frog Legs are Delicious

[49er]

Personally, I am not bothered by the OT posts. What bothers me, and almost drove me away from here is the occasional sniping and offensive comments that take place. Like everyone else, I came here looking for help, and have found it. Being a relatively new XPAP user (five months), I try not to give advice unless it is something simple like expressing my personal opinion about certain masks or dealing with Medicare requirements. I fought that battle for almost nine months before I finally got a machine and started treatment. I have found the advice offered here to be very useful. Sometimes, I have problems, but think it too small of an issue to post here and ask for help, then within a few days I will see someone else posts that problem and others answer clearly and logically on how to solve it. As my wife likes to say, I am just a stubborn, old man who is too dumb to ask for help.

Popcopoo,

Never hesitate to ask for help even if you think your issue is small. As you found out, someone else had the same issue and if you had posted instead of that person, they would have been very happy to see your post.

And to answer the question, I don't mind OT posts at all. So no, I don't think they should be banned.

[Gasper62]

Without "OT" threads, there'd be no access to D.I.Y. Bailey's Cream recipes and lots of other good stuff to take the mind away from the grim realities of life with apnea. I'm almost ready to impart my secret, grilled flank steak recipe. What I'd really like to see removed is, Enchanter's posting privileges, and, that he or she be confined to a read-only status on the forum. Maybe a write-in campaign could bring that about.

[49er]

Without "OT" threads, there'd be no access to D.I.Y. Bailey's Cream recipes and lots of other good stuff to take the mind away from the grim realities of life with apnea. I'm almost ready to impart my secret, grilled flank steak recipe. What I'd really like to see removed is, Enchanter's posting privileges, and, that he or she be confined to a read-only status on the forum. Maybe a write-in campaign could bring that about.

Not going to happen Gasper as I don't think the Goodmans would allow this. And besides, if you truly believe in an unmoderated forum, you can't have it both ways and start banning people you don't like. If we revoked his posting privileges, then where do you draw the line? Not to sound like a broken record but it is simply best to not respond to his posts. If we stop responding, eventually he will have no incentive to continue to post here.

[JoeWingrove]

Not sure if this was mentioned or not since it this is a long thread but would it be possible to get a couple of different sections where off topic posts can be done separate from the help and advice ones?

[Goofproof]

No but we do have the ability, not to click on any post, it's in the by-laws. Jim

[zoocrewphoto]

I would rather ban polls, or put them in a separate section. Either ask a question or not. But most polls do not have enough answer options anyway, so they won't be valid. Many times, somebody has to start it over when they add more answers. I saw one recently that was an older one that mentioned hot or cold air, then asked for humidifier and hose settings. If I had chosen to answer, it would have been misleading. I do use a climateline hose with temp set. But I usually keep the temp set low. So, while i actively use a heated hose, I prefer cold air. My first thought was,great another poll. Then, nope, no valid answer for me. Another useless poll.

[Boyce]

Not sure if this was mentioned or not since it this is a long thread but would it be possible to get a couple of different sections where off topic posts can be done separate from the help and advice ones?

No.

[Demmom]

Wow this was a waste of time. Keep venting it helps the circulation. I would prefer helpful information and cpap talk. It respects the forum purpose, maybe it even respects me and my desire to be successful in my cpap journey. Is that as important to you as it is to me, I am an analytical problem solver and not a verbose ventilator.

I don't know anyone who would volunteer to enforce upon others the complete adherence to the purpose of cpap talk as I desire. The best hope that I have is that each of us will show respect for the purpose of this forum.