Another Battery Option

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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idamtnboy
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by idamtnboy » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:10 pm

Bert_Mathews wrote:I'm not very good with electric wiring so maybe SOMEBODY can jump in with some HELP.

I have a CPAP battery setup for the M series Image
My setup now is a S9 VPAP : "The QUESTION is" can I connect to the battery's in my Electric wheelchairs ? If so can I get the wiring to go from the three wire plug (straight XLR 3 pin plug) on the chairs to the CPAP?
Image
Or do I need to buy this setup from CPAP.COM Image
and open the wheelchairs too clip into the battery's with the Alligator Clips.

If somebody has already made up a setup for the S9 and willing to make a second one PLEASE PM me
You'd be better off to have someone install a power outlet on your chair. An XLR plug is mostly used in audio systems, and although they may carry the voltage they aren't very rugged. I'd be leery about using one for power. Better off to use a real power outlet and plug. Actually, a usual automotive 12 volt power outlet would be a good choice.

You will need the Resmed power converter, or an inverter will work if the chair is 12 volts.

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Malaka
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by Malaka » Thu May 16, 2013 1:28 pm

GumbyCT wrote:I got this via emale... I don't have this 1 yet
$149.95
Duracell DPP-600HD Powerpack 600 Jump Starter & Emergency Power Source with Radio $149.95
http://www.robustbuy.com/led-lighting-g ... 7_730.html

$149.95 ------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:
Product Features

DPP-600HD is Hazmat and is non-returnable
Contains one DC outlet which can be used to both power devices and recharge the HD600 unit and also Contains three three-pronged AC outlets (480-watt continuous / 600-watt peak) to power multiple devices, appliances and tools
Built-in 600-watt power inverter, 5-watt flashlight, overload/over-temperature protection and reverse polarity detection
Sealed, non-spillable 28 amp hour AGM battery and detachable alligator clamps for jump-starting cars (up to 8-cylinder); non-returnable; refer to users' manual for charging instructions
Built-in AM/FM radio and digital alarm clock.

$149.95 ------------------------------------------------------------

Keep in mind you can get the B&D for $100 regular price. But the Duracell has a larger capacity battery and is prob that much heavier too.

Also worth noting the Duracell only has 1 DC plug but you can buy a multi-outlet adapter too. The B&D and the Sears both have 2 DC and 2 AC outlets.

The Sears also has a USB receptacle but if you need you can also buy a USB adapter to fit the cigarette plug outlet. Just make sure you have somewhere to plug it into. I don't think the Duracell has a USB; I know the B&D doesn't.
I bought a Maglite flashlight from amazon last month. It is great to use, has rechargeable powerful batteries and various light effects as well.
Last edited by Malaka on Fri May 17, 2013 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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billbolton
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by billbolton » Thu May 16, 2013 5:38 pm

Bert_Mathews wrote:Or do I need to buy this setup from CPAP.COM Image
You will need the Resmed DC adapter for your S9 if you intend to use the S9 when directly connected to ANY battery power source

Cheers,

Bill

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Guest

Re: Another Battery Option

Post by Guest » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:07 pm

Searching for Battery Backup Design V2 ... but this looks so much easier.

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CapnLoki
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:01 am

Guest wrote:Searching for Battery Backup Design V2 ... but this looks so much easier.
Easy it is, and it looks like it could be a handy device. However, the Amazon reviews are quite mixed - about a quarter of the ratings are 1 and 2 star - not what I'd want for an emergency backup. This unit is 26 Amp-hour capacity. A few months ago there was a thread on a bigger version, with two batteries and 52 Amp-hour capacity, which also had some scathing reviews. I think I found that those batteries were replaceable, so this one might be the same. This unit is not lightweight, so you're not going to carry it while hiking or flying, and at 26 Amp-hours it probably will handle a CPAP for a night or two, but not with a humidifier.

Here's John's design:
viewtopic.php?t=89123

John's attention to detail makes it look complicated, but it really comes down to two items: a deep cycle battery and a trickle charger. The battery can start at around $75 for a Walmart marine deep cycle that will have 3-4 times the capacity of the Duracell, and the "Battery Tender" high quality trickle charger which starts at under 35 with a "cigarette lighter" socket and fuse. If you have a Respironics add $30 for a 12V plug, ResMed converter is $90. Otherwise add a 150 Watt inverter. Keep it all in the garage and when they say the big one is coming, make sure its charged up. It will also start your car.

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Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

Guest

Re: Another Battery Option

Post by Guest » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:30 am

did you read the posters here that said they have used it successfully for several nights
with a humidifier
or what was said about the amazon comments
you wont go camping with johns either
this guy said he sleeps with it every night
i think its worth a go

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CapnLoki
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:20 am

Guest wrote:did you read the posters here that said they have used it successfully for several nights
with a humidifier
I missed that. I did see where he said that the humidifier was turned off. I also saw that when he turned the humidifier from 0 to 1 it popped a 3Amp fuse. That makes it pretty unlikely it could actually power a humidifier for two nights. Of course, at the lowest settings you might be able to stretch it, though if you run this type of battery down low the number of cycles its good for might only be a dozen or so.
Guest wrote:or what was said about the amazon comments
Nope, why don't you tell us where it is since this is a 3 year old thread with about 100 posts. There are a number of units mentioned. I was assuming the last one mentioned from DuraCell, but the first one, from Sears had ratings just as bad.
Guest wrote:you wont go camping with johns either
No, my point was that as long as it isn't portable you might as well get something with three times the power, or more. Obviously some people will never use a naked battery, but John's approach can easily be scaled to any size you want, and you can get a replacement battery at any auto shop or Walmart.
Guest wrote: this guy said he sleeps with it every night
Yes, but he hasn't posted since then. And for all his hype, it was only used as an emergency backup once or twice, when it was still fairly new. BTW, he uses a direct 12V cord rather than the "power brick." Certainly this is recommended for efficiency while running from the battery, but I'm not sure I'd trust my CPAP to a cheap charging circuit every night. Worse, his cord is a not the factory Respironics which comes with two large filters. I suppose if I had frequent outages, I could be tempted to use a UPS, but then I don't think I'd select the absolute cheapest option. I'm more interested in solutions for a hurricane or ice storm that takes out power for a few days or more.
Guest wrote:i think its worth a go
Great! Tell us how it goes.

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Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

Guest

Re: Another Battery Option

Post by Guest » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:11 pm

perhaps you should research a bit more
Would you think the one I have been using in this fashion since June meets or exceeds that requirement?

I tend to think that "most" have under powered chargers which allow it to stay plugged in "until needed". After all, how can you tell when the power will go out? I can't which is why I keep my plugged in AND connected to my BiPap.
Also you should be aware that many, many websites have bogus reviews posted by bogus reviewers who also taint the competitions reviews. I know I don't rely solely on reviews for movies or restaurants either. What does not appeal to me may in fact appeal to you. As in this case.
When reading a review that says it (a battery jump starter) worked fine but then 6 (8 or 10) months later it didn't work I just thought they didn't charge it at all during that time. Maybe not even before or AFTER the first use.

You can't just go out and buy a battery that has been sitting on the shelf (for who knows how long) and go camping this weekend or for a power outage that just happened and expect to get good results.
OR - you can buy one of these jump starters then spend that $100 on a marine battery. Connect the jumper cables to the battery AFTER Fully charging said battery for maybe 3-4 days with the battery tender of your choice.

Connecting the jumper cables positive to positive and negative to negative will increase the load capacity and depending on the size of the battery you connect will add more days and even several more IF using DC.

The point is you can make a great modular system this way and make it easier to move it. I would only use the battery tender when the 2nd battery is NOT connected to the jump starter.
However, because the jump leads remain live this B&D jump starter is ideal to build a larger battery into. Simply connect the jumper leads to whatever battery you have and it is connected in parallel, which is what you want to increase the battery capacity (hours of use). Then use the charger built into the B&D to charge the external battery also.

In fact, the B&D Jump Starter could easily be used in the JBF Battery Backup Design
on using the inverter
After the 5th night of no power (wow -- never had an extended period like that before!) our electric came back on, so I'm giving the charger the chance to bring the battery back to full charge (or whatever the new "full" might be).

I don't know how I would have made it through without the battery. So, thank you for getting me motivated with your advice many months ago! This is a great low-fuss solution to keep on CPAP during an outage, and would have been even better if I'd gone to the trouble of getting the DC cord to use (I might do that now).
This is when I am thankful to have a 2nd homeade Radio Shack DC cord in my travel bag. So I grabbed that, went back to sleep and dealt with the problem cord in the morning.

Turns out the Respironics special DC cable has a 3A 250V slo blo fuse in it and yes it blew. Then I remembered about 3 days earlier I turned my humidifier up from 0 to 1 and it does work on DC.

So it worked fine for the 3 days then right when you need it, poof.

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CapnLoki
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:54 pm

Sorry, Guest (if that is your real name), tossing a mess of random quotes out is essentially gibberish. For instance, discounting the large number of negative reviews by assuming they didn't bother to plug it in is nonsense. And while hotels and restaurants can have a large number of "false positive" reviews, I seriously doubt some competitor chose to bad mouth both the Sears and Duracell units. Actually its far more likely that someone would shill for them.

On the comment the starts out "after the 5th night of no power" you snipped the part where the poster says he recharged during the day, but after several days it had trouble taking the charge. Not a glowing endorsement, nor a claim that it could run for 5 nights. With an automotive style deep cycle, you can simply plug it into the cigar socket of a car and drive around for a while to charge it up. Actually it might well run for 5 nights without recharging.

I don't know the point of mentioning the second battery setup - its true that paralleling a second battery will add power, but its poor practice to do this for an extended period unless the batteries are well matched. When I mentioned "scaling up" a system I assumed using two or more identical batteries - my "off-grid" system has four identical batteries.

And the blown fuse episode simply shows that the draw of the humidifier makes it impossible to run on battery more than one night (and even one night might damage the battery).

I wish you would join our group and post under a name. You could tell us what equipment you use, and what pressure - that would certainly make it easier to tell how a battery would work for you. If you do purchase one I'd love to hear how it worked out.

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Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
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Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

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SleepyCPAP
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by SleepyCPAP » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:12 pm

Hi Guest and CapnLoki,

I see you both quoted me (from a 2011 post) as having used the DieHard 1150 through the regular plug (inverter) during the five days without power. Obviously I was recharging each day by bringing to work. It wasn't a problem of the battery taking a charge, but rather how slowly it charged. Each day was not long enough to bring it up to 100% before I went home from work, and so each night of use took the battery down lower. The charger was just too slow, and the draw through the inverter too high. Once the storm was past I stopped using the jump-starter and it charged back up to show 100% later. Is that the same 100% as when new? I don't know.

For those wondering how that solution is going now (2014), I am still using that same DieHard 1150 jump-starter as my emergency back-up if needed. It was what I used in the most recent storm. I ran my 60-series PRS1 at 10cm with humidifier at 2 (but with a regular hose, not heated hose) for 7.5 hours that night, using the 12v cord for the CPAP (not regular plug). The 60-series 12v cord has a higher capacity fuse, so I didn't worry about having my humidifier on. The jump-starter charge had been topped off the week before (I do that once a month), and said 100% when I started, and 90% when I turned the unit off. A moment later after I ran my modem and router through the inverter it said 80%. When I started charging it at work later in the day it was showing 55% as the initial starting number. I've never figured out which number to trust, but in any case it was there when I needed it for as long as I needed it and still had power left. It will now continue to gather dust and be topped off once a month.

--SleepyCPAP

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RogerSC
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by RogerSC » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:50 pm

billbolton wrote: You will need the Resmed DC adapter for your S9 if you intend to use the S9 when directly connected to ANY battery power source :idea:

Cheers,

Bill
I believe that Resmed has a very expensive battery pack that doesn't require buying the separate 12V -> 24V dc power converter. Or if you happened to have a 24V battery lying around you wouldn't need the Resmed converter, either. But yes, if you have a 12V battery that you plan to use, you'll need the power converter to get the 24V that the Resmed S9 cpap's require.

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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by Guest » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:52 pm

so you heard from a real life happy camper
SleepyCPAP wrote:For those wondering how that solution is going now (2014), I am still using that same DieHard 1150 jump-starter as my emergency back-up if needed.
hopefully that carries more weight than from someone you dont know

have you ever known someone who bought a brand new lawn mower snowblower etc
never ever put oil then wrote a scathing review
same thing applies with batteries
regardless of what you say
they do need to be charged before use

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CapnLoki
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:08 pm

Thanks for clarifying, Sleepy - nice to know someone is actually following this to keep us honest! I'm not surprised it couldn't charge over 80-90% in a limited time; it hard to get any battery, and especially an AGM the last 10%. On a boat the rule of thumb is discharge to 50%, recharge to 85%. It is a bit disappointing, though, that a day's charging could not recover a night's use.

I haven't been able to really figure out the humidifier usage, in fact I never use it when I run on battery. It seems the new Respironics measures the ambient humidity and on turns on only when needed. Since power failure means no air conditioner, and likely for me means hurricane, the ambient humidity is probably high.

The "power meters" on these batteries are notoriously inaccurate. There is no magic sensor; all it can do is look at the "surface voltage" of the battery. In fact, even if you have an accurate voltmeter it takes a lot of experience to read. When I live "off-grid" I check the battery voltage maybe ten times a day, and more often than not all I can say is "that's interesting, maybe some day it will all make sense." My standard is the Amp-hour meter, which tells me how much juice has gone in or out of the battery. This is similar to the Kill-a-Watt meters some folks use. Its also how computers read their battery state since lithium batteries have a rather flat voltage curve. The voltage of a lead acid battery is affected by many factors and is only meaningful after its been under a calibrated load - which is why battery shops have "load testers."

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

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CapnLoki
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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by CapnLoki » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:32 pm

Guest wrote:...
have you ever known someone who bought a brand new lawn mower snowblower etc
never ever put oil then wrote a scathing review
same thing applies with batteries
regardless of what you say
they do need to be charged before use
Yes, I understand there is always one bozo who totally misuses the reviewed item. When a third of the reviewers give a bad review, I take it more seriously. In this case (the Sears) a number of the reviewers were quite explicit that they were using the battery properly but it wouldn't take a charge. Actually, I didn't notice any reviews that sounded like they didn't charge before using. Most of them were failure shortly after purchase, or dead battery after about a year's service. It makes sense when you sell a charger/inverter/compressor/battery for $100 its going to be cheaply made. We'll never really know because this is a statistical game - probably 80% of the users get good service from the item, and probably you will too. For my purposes, however, I can get better odds with more power for less money.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ Air Full Face Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Pressure 9-20, average ~9.5; often use battery power while off-grid
Hark, how hard he fetches breath . . .  Act II, Scene IV, King Henry IV Part I, William Shakespeare
Choosing a Battery thread: http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t1140 ... ttery.html

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Re: Another Battery Option

Post by Guest » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:42 pm

CapnLoki wrote:Actually, I didn't notice any reviews that sounded like they didn't charge before using.
can you show one that said they charged it before use
or after for that matter
mebbe it was sposed to stay charged forever