Cpap and Bronchitis/Pneumonia

[JohnBFisher]

I agree (mostly) with what others are saying:

Pre-xPAP therapy, I was headed down the road to COPD due to the constant (twice per year) bronchitis.

Post-xPAP therapy, I rarely get a chest cold (about once every five years instead of twice a year). I sometimes get a head cold. But not all that often.

Here's where I can differ. IF you mask is leaking and/or you are using only a nasal mask, then if you have a lot of air flowing out of your mouth, it WILL dry out your throat and mouth, leaving you open to an infection. That's part of why it is so important to use your mask without constant large leaks. (Avoiding loosing the therapeutic pressure is the other, obvious reason.)

So, can it make things worse - yes. Should it, if used correctly, no. It should in fact help improve your health.

By the way, I only rarely use clean my mask and hose and humidifier. I've NEVER replaced the humidifier. I only use distilled water. And in the past 20 years, I have probably only washed out the humidifier on my unit about four or five times. I replace the mask and hose more frequently than I would wash them out. It's not as if there is some medium in which germs or mold would thrive. The filter helps eliminate any dust / contaminants from entering the unit. It's a fairly clean environment. That makes it unhealthy for germs and not at all necessary to constantly clean.

But in summary, xPAP therapy actually should significantly improve your respiratory health.

[Guest]

I'm still sick after 2 months of this respiratory infection- don't know if it is antibacterial resistant or viral or what. I can't sleep on bipap because I keep on waking up with the mask off. nothing is working for me even auto cpap.
I woke up today and was so sleepy I'm going back to bed- just tired and having slight flu symptoms. I was on 4 antibiotics and still seem sick...

[Janknitz]

I'm still sick after 2 months of this respiratory infection- don't know if it is antibacterial resistant or viral or what. I can't sleep on bipap because I keep on waking up with the mask off. nothing is working for me even auto cpap.
I woke up today and was so sleepy I'm going back to bed- just tired and having slight flu symptoms. I was on 4 antibiotics and still seem sick...

Sickwithapnea,

I might have posted to you about this in another thread, but these symptoms can be a sign of asthmatic bronchitis which is NOT a bacterial infection and won't get better no matter how many antibiotics you take. More often than not it's an autoimmune response which causes mucous production, inflammation, and tightening of the airways. Primary care physicians don't always "get" this. They throw antibotics at you to see if that helps, and it often does not. You need to see a pulmonologist if your PCP doesn't have anything more to offer you than antibiotics. More than likely you need to be on steroid medications that will reduce the inflammation and autoimmune response, as well as bronchodilators that will relax the airway spasms. Only then will you start to feel better.

This problem is NOT caused by CPAP. The original trigger may have been even a very mild upper respiratory infection (i.e. a cold) or an allergy. But not CPAP treatment, which, if anything, helps by keeping the upper airway open so you can get as much oxygen as possible.

[sickwithapnea17]

my O2 is low for my age at 94% and I'm having heart rhythm problems, wheezing, exhaustion
I'm on dulera, xopenex, singulair, and went through a month of prednisone but it didn't really help. is there anything else I can try? I'm trying advair 250

[howkim]

my O2 is low for my age at 94% and I'm having heart rhythm problems, wheezing, exhaustion
I'm on dulera, xopenex, singulair, and went through a month of prednisone but it didn't really help. is there anything else I can try? I'm trying advair 250

Are you seeing a pulmonary specialist for this? Years ago, there was research that indicated that people who saw specialists received better care in the specialist's areas than those who didn't. Don't remember the citation or I'd post it.

[taunygail]

I have only been on the CPAP for a week and two days. I am now suffering from bronchitis. I have always been prone to sinus infections and bronchitis, so I started looking online to see if there was a connection. For me it could be coincidental, but I thought I would see what others out there had to say. I have read a few different forums....some say YES it is a possible side-effect....while others say NO it is not. I suppose that if your problem persists maybe you should check with your doctor or sleep center for an alternative method, even if it is temporary to see if the bronchitis/pneumonia issues subside. I hope they are all right that say it is not a side-effect. I have had success with it for the most part and it does seem to be helping the fatigue and I feel like I actually sleep through the night. But with the onset of bronchitis so quickly after I began using the machine, I can not tell yet if there are other benefits. I have been told I'll feel more energetic, more focused, ect., but at this moment I'm too sick to know. I wish you well and hope that you find the answers you are searching for!

[BlackSpinner]

I have only been on the CPAP for a week and two days. I am now suffering from bronchitis. I have always been prone to sinus infections and bronchitis, so I started looking online to see if there was a connection. For me it could be coincidental, but I thought I would see what others out there had to say. I have read a few different forums....some say YES it is a possible side-effect....while others say NO it is not. I suppose that if your problem persists maybe you should check with your doctor or sleep center for an alternative method, even if it is temporary to see if the bronchitis/pneumonia issues subside. I hope they are all right that say it is not a side-effect. I have had success with it for the most part and it does seem to be helping the fatigue and I feel like I actually sleep through the night. But with the onset of bronchitis so quickly after I began using the machine, I can not tell yet if there are other benefits. I have been told I'll feel more energetic, more focused, ect., but at this moment I'm too sick to know. I wish you well and hope that you find the answers you are searching for!

Sign up, login, update your profile to include your mask and machine and start your own thread instead of a year old one.

[locust78]

I'm going to jump in with the rest. I think my CPAP experience has been beneficial when it comes to my sinus health. At times when I felt that cold or allergy was threatening to close up my passages, my CPAP would keep them open, and as a result, seemed to chase away whatever it was that was trying to do me damage. As a person who has ongoing sinus issues I also use a SoClean to keep my equipment as clean as possible. I've learned from past experiences that I can't afford to take any chances in that department.

[Todzo]

Hi Andy!

Once in a while I get a little ozone based car air freshener and attach it by clip leads to a 12 volt dc supply. I place it running in a plastic tub along with my CPAP machine which is also running. I place the top on the box and let them both run in the small enclosed space for an hour or so. I then run the CPAP outside of the box for an hour or so (not attached to me).

This will oxidize most anything growing inside the air handling parts of the CPAP and give it s fresh smell when used for the next week or so.

CPAP tends to raise breathing levels and through the CO2 circuit (we blow off CO2 when we move air – too much lost is bad) that frustrates metabolism and makes us vulnerable to disease.

Read, take to doc and talk with doc about:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21206741 (note that the full text is free!)

Have a great week!

Todzo

[SickCPAPUser]

I have been using a Cpap machine for 4 months. I use a pressure level of 13 and am using a ResMed Elite machine with a Climate Control and a heated hose with a humidity setting of 81. I use a Swift FX Nasal Mask.
Five weeks ago I started withn an Upper Respiratory illness, tickly throat and blowing my nose. This progressed to Bronchitis and now Pneumonia. My Doctor has prescribed a Z pack and Mucinex. In addition I now have Conjunctivitis. During this period I have gone a few nights without the Cpap, but have to tried to continue with the regime.
I have recently searched online and there appears to be a clear link between Cpap users and repeated bouts of Bronchitis/respiratory illness. Most 'posters' are being told they are not keeping their equipment clean enough and/or are not using Distilled Water. I am doing all of the above and yet I am convinced Cpap is the cause of my current complaints.
I also worry that it is difficult to get an honest point of view, as the Cpap industry brings in millions of dollars for manufacturers and DME companies. I wish a unbiased medical professional would honestly compare the benefits and drawbacks of using Cpap machines so that the patient can make an informed decision.
As for my illness, it seems strange that I have never suffered anything like this in the past and it all seems to much of a coincidence. Does anyone out there share my opinion, or indeed shed any more light as to the cause of my illness ?
Many thanks,
Andy

I don't know where you're getting that garbage. As BlackSpinner mentioned, the majority of folks find just the opposite. I know I did. There have only been a couple of times in the last six years that I've had a respiratory illness and it was the flu and it was transmitted to me by some other people at work. Prior to this therapy, I've had some kind of annual respiratory ailment since I contracted some kind of bronchial pneumonia in high school (mid 1960s).

Maybe you're using too much heated humidity and need to turn it down or Off and use "passover" (cool) humidification.

PS: As far as "cleaning" goes, I'm in the "minimalist" category. I've never actually "washed" my humidifier tank or my hose......just dump, rinse and refill. I do wash my mask "occasionally"......a few times a year. However, I do rinse my air intake filter out at least once a month. And, I've always used distilled water in my humidifier tank.


Den

Perhaps you'd like to consider reading the following Medical Journal article before concluding the suggestion is garbage?:

"Filters Reduce the Risk of Bacterial Transmission from Contaminated Heated Humidifiers Used with CPAP for Obstructive Sleep Apnea" J Clin Sleep Med. 2007 December 15; 3(7): 700–705.
PMCID: PMC2556912 (Article PMC2556912 available at www<dot>ncbinlm<dot>nih<dot>gov)

Which notes that "... recent observations suggest that their use, particularly if not cleaned, increases the risk of respiratory infections. Humidifier water may be contaminated, but the long-held view that passive humidifiers cannot aerosolize water may obscure the perception of risk of infection."

Study Results: "Bacteria were recovered in 9 of 11 tests from the breathing tubes of CPAP devices fitted with heated humidifiers with water contaminated with Brevundimonas diminuta or Serratia marcescens. Recoverable bacteria ranged from tens to thousands of colony forming units when tested at air flow rates of 60 liters per minute for 90 minutes. Neither organism was recovered from the circuit tubing when a hydrophobic breathing-circuit filter was positioned between the humidifier and face-mask tubing with a commercially available nCPAP machine tested under simulated-use conditions. Conclusion: Data suggest that patients with OSA being treated with nCPAP fitted with humidifiers may be aerosolizing bacteria, putting them at risk for developing respiratory infections and that the use of a hydrophobic filter may attenuate the passage of microbes from contaminated humidifier water."

[Wulfman...]

I have been using a Cpap machine for 4 months. I use a pressure level of 13 and am using a ResMed Elite machine with a Climate Control and a heated hose with a humidity setting of 81. I use a Swift FX Nasal Mask.
Five weeks ago I started withn an Upper Respiratory illness, tickly throat and blowing my nose. This progressed to Bronchitis and now Pneumonia. My Doctor has prescribed a Z pack and Mucinex. In addition I now have Conjunctivitis. During this period I have gone a few nights without the Cpap, but have to tried to continue with the regime.
I have recently searched online and there appears to be a clear link between Cpap users and repeated bouts of Bronchitis/respiratory illness. Most 'posters' are being told they are not keeping their equipment clean enough and/or are not using Distilled Water. I am doing all of the above and yet I am convinced Cpap is the cause of my current complaints.
I also worry that it is difficult to get an honest point of view, as the Cpap industry brings in millions of dollars for manufacturers and DME companies. I wish a unbiased medical professional would honestly compare the benefits and drawbacks of using Cpap machines so that the patient can make an informed decision.
As for my illness, it seems strange that I have never suffered anything like this in the past and it all seems to much of a coincidence. Does anyone out there share my opinion, or indeed shed any more light as to the cause of my illness ?
Many thanks,
Andy

I don't know where you're getting that garbage. As BlackSpinner mentioned, the majority of folks find just the opposite. I know I did. There have only been a couple of times in the last six years that I've had a respiratory illness and it was the flu and it was transmitted to me by some other people at work. Prior to this therapy, I've had some kind of annual respiratory ailment since I contracted some kind of bronchial pneumonia in high school (mid 1960s).

Maybe you're using too much heated humidity and need to turn it down or Off and use "passover" (cool) humidification.

PS: As far as "cleaning" goes, I'm in the "minimalist" category. I've never actually "washed" my humidifier tank or my hose......just dump, rinse and refill. I do wash my mask "occasionally"......a few times a year. However, I do rinse my air intake filter out at least once a month. And, I've always used distilled water in my humidifier tank.


Den

Perhaps you'd like to consider reading the following Medical Journal article before concluding the suggestion is garbage?:

"Filters Reduce the Risk of Bacterial Transmission from Contaminated Heated Humidifiers Used with CPAP for Obstructive Sleep Apnea" J Clin Sleep Med. 2007 December 15; 3(7): 700–705.
PMCID: PMC2556912 (Article PMC2556912 available at www<dot>ncbinlm<dot>nih<dot>gov)

Which notes that "... recent observations suggest that their use, particularly if not cleaned, increases the risk of respiratory infections. Humidifier water may be contaminated, but the long-held view that passive humidifiers cannot aerosolize water may obscure the perception of risk of infection."

Study Results: "Bacteria were recovered in 9 of 11 tests from the breathing tubes of CPAP devices fitted with heated humidifiers with water contaminated with Brevundimonas diminuta or Serratia marcescens. Recoverable bacteria ranged from tens to thousands of colony forming units when tested at air flow rates of 60 liters per minute for 90 minutes. Neither organism was recovered from the circuit tubing when a hydrophobic breathing-circuit filter was positioned between the humidifier and face-mask tubing with a commercially available nCPAP machine tested under simulated-use conditions. Conclusion: Data suggest that patients with OSA being treated with nCPAP fitted with humidifiers may be aerosolizing bacteria, putting them at risk for developing respiratory infections and that the use of a hydrophobic filter may attenuate the passage of microbes from contaminated humidifier water."

Nonsense!
Water vapor molecules are much too small to carry any possible pathogens out of a humidifier to the user.

Q. Is it possible for a patient to catch an infection from a humidifier?
A. The environment in the heated humidifier chamber under most operating conditions is such that the majority of pathogens are rapidly killed.

Even if pathogens were able to exist in the humidification chamber, they would not be able to be transported to the patient. The humidity travels from the chamber in vapor form, which is too small for a bacteria or virus to travel in.

http : // www . talkaboutsleep . com/sleep-disorders/archives/Snoring_apnea_cpaphumid9 . htm

(take out the spaces and it will give you a link to a visual aid source)


Den

.

[HoseCrusher]

While Den is theoretically correct actual performance may differ between machines.

If you actually test your set up you can determine if your machine humidifier delivers vapor or an aerosol.

I use the S8 and H4i humidifier. My system can deliver aerosol as confirmed by testing using my pressures (9-13). Other machines and other pressures may be different.

I will also point out that the article test used a flow rate of 60 L per minute. The higher the flow rate the more turbulence induced into the humidifier and the higher the probability of producing an aerosol rather than just vapor. Pathogens can not be transported on vapor, but they can be transported with an aerosol. I believe I used about 35 L per minute for my tests.

The temperature of the water in the humidifier is not hot enough to kill most pathogens. Remember that to purify water you need to boil it and the water in the humidifier is no where near boiling temperatures.

All in all the best practice is to clean according to your immune system capability. If you have no "issues" you don't need to clean as often. However if you have congestion, pneumonia, sinus drainage, a soar throat, and so on, you may want to clean more thoroughly and more often.

[mgaggie]

why drag up a thread over a year old?

[Wulfman...]

I think the "bottom line" is that if you have any "pathogens" growing (or existing) in your CPAP humidifier, you've got bigger problems......they already exist within your dwelling and you're exposed to them when you're not hooked up to the XPAP machine. I don't think they just appear out of nowhere.


Den

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[shirleybyemail@aol.com]

I have been on C-Pap for 4 months now due to sleep apnea and a past heart attack. I use a ResMed device, setting of 6 with humidifier and extra small nasal pillows (I could not stand the smothering feeling of a mask). I am about to think the cure is worse than the ailment!! I do the cleaning regimens religiously yet I have had constant nasal issues and dry eyes from cold air blowing up into my face from the exhaused air. I might could endure these ailments if it were not for the fact that I have also "caught" 4 really bad illnesses since going on C-Pap! I spent most of a week in bed each time very sick!! I am beside myself as to what to do and appreciate any and all comments.