Wanted - Lab Rats...

[HoseCrusher]

Many people suffer from nasal congestion and irritation. Along with that comes sinus problems, or those symptoms are a result of sinus problems.

Going back as far as Hippocrates, steam was used to treat these problems. The twist is that salt was added to the water and you ended up breathing salt vapor.

This got me thinking...

Based upon a test sample of 2 (me and a friend) we have "discovered" that adding a very small amount of salt to the xPAP humidifier "seems" to relieve nasal congestion and help sinus problems.

With that bold statement and our extremely limited sample size, I was wondering if anyone would be willing to join us in trying this and see if it works for more than just a couple of people?

If you are interested there are some additional things you need to do.

You need to mix up a 1 liter salt solution. You do this by filling a water bottle with distilled water, then add .2 grams of a pure high quality salt. I use aquarium rock salt found at the pet store. You will fill your humidifier using this water. .2 grams of aquarium salt is around 3 small chunks.

One possible downside, although we haven't experienced it, is that there may be some scale that forms on the side of your humidifier if you run it all the way out of water. I have measured the amount of water I typically use per night, and simply fill my humidifier with that much water plus a little extra for a cushion. Each morning I dump the remaining water and fill the humidifier each night before sleep. I have had no slime or other indications that anything is growing in my tank. I wash my humidifier tank every 1 - 2 weeks just to make sure.

I am not a medical professional, but I think this is very safe. The idea of breathing salt has been around a long time and you can read up on this by searching on halotherapy. It is possible that a small amount of salt added to the humidifier water can help with the nasal irritation that many experience.

Note: We started at .1 grams and it didn't seem to do anything at all. When we bumped the amount up to .2 grams, several "near congestion" occurrences were simply stopped in their tracts. I don't think there are any scientific studies in this, and it is important to be very careful what your are adding to the air you breathe each night.

[roster]

Crusher, That is interesting.

This is from Wikipedia:

Breathing an aerosol of hypertonic salt water (3-7% NaCl) has been found effective as a treatment for the heavy build up of mucus typical of cystic fibrosis.[9] The benefits of this were first noticed by sufferers who regularly surfed in Australia and so were exposed to the natural aerosol of the salt spray.[10]

The use of saline solution delivered by a nebulizer to treat bronchiolitis in children has also been systematically reviewed. The conclusion was that, "Current evidence suggests nebulized 3% saline may significantly reduce the length of hospital stay and improve the clinical severity score in infants with acute viral bronchiolitis."[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_therapy

You would need to put 30 grams of salt in one liter of water to reach a 3% solution. Then of course the salt is staying in the humidifier tank and not traveling through the hose into the respiratory system as is the case with the nebulizer.

I have some serious doubts that any benefit, besides placebo benefit, would be realized. Nonetheless I still find the idea interesting.

[Julie]

Might'n it be a good idea to check with your doctor about it? Not everyone should necessarily be increasing their salt ingestion, however it's presented, plus who knows what it could interfere with otherwise. I know it's generally a good thing for congestion (neti-pots are doing very well these days) but I don't know if it's the best idea in the humidifier (not to mention what it could do to machines... it can be corrosive).

[chunkyfrog]

Water in the humidifier is evaporated, technically distilled; therefore the likelihood of salt leaving the chamber is negligible at best.
This is not the same as nebulized water solution, where dissolved salts are carried along with the water mist without leaving solution.
Provided there is no harm to the tank, hose, and mask; this may help inhibit bacterial growth, but IMHO, not much else.

[kempo]

Every time I take a vacation to any ocean beach my sinuses are completely open the whole time I am there.

[HoseCrusher]

Roster, Yes I saw that. It was one of the things that actually prompted me to actually post this.

[idamtnboy]

I'd be pretty careful, and skeptical, about trying this. The reason is water vapor will not carry salt. In order for any of the salt to get to your nose and mouth you would have to have water droplets transported from the humidifier to your nose. In other words, you would have to force your humidifier to cause a 'rain out'. In the quote rooster gives the operative word is "aerosol", i.e., water droplets. From what I read in this forum, water droplets in your hose are quite undesirable.

Here's a good answer from scientists at Argonne National Laboratory to a question for a situation that exactly parallels the issue here.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/c ... m00492.htm

Salt Water Steam

name Diana P.
status other
age 40s

Question - In cooking, can the steam from salted water season food
(make the food taste salted)?
------------------------
Diana,

The steam from salted water is simply water vapor that contains no salt. You
can demonstrate the truth of this by boiling some salt water in a teakettle
and allowing the steam that emerges from the spout to impinge on the bottom
of a glass of ice water. Taste the condensate on the outside of the glass --
it will be ordinary, tasteless (pure) water.

Regards,
ProfHoff 304
========================================================
Only a little. Salt itself will not go into steam. However, the action of
boiling produces aerosols of the salt water. The collapse of the bubbles
makes tiny droplets of salt water that can be carried along in the steam
convection currents and eventually land on the food it contacts.

This is similar to the way that objects near the ocean, such as cars,
develop a salt coating over time. The salt, of course, comes from the salt
spray from the surf. The salt spray is an aerosol produced by wave action.

Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph.D.
Assistant Director
PG Research Foundation, Darien, Illinois
=========================================================
No, the steam will not carry any salt to the food. However, if the water is
boiling rapidly enough, it may splash liquid up onto the food and that could
carry salt to it.

Greg Bradburn
========================================================
If the world were perfect and the steam was only water the answer is no.
But in the real world of boiling mist and droplets of the salt water escape
into the steam and would salt the food.

Vince Calder
=========================================================

[HoseCrusher]

Julie, It is always a good idea to check with your doctor.

I am not sure breathing salt ions counts toward ingestion. There are a lot of people that live near salt water that would have problems if that was the case.

If it helped, I think that many people would gladly trade reduced machine life for improved nasal condition. However, I don't think the concentration of salt is going to corrode anything, and I don't believe the hose and mask are subject to corrosion.

[HoseCrusher]

Chunkyfrog, That is correct. But while the salt is left in the water for the most part, it seems that salt ions can escape and it may be the salt ions that help with the nasal irritation.

I know that many people feel much better when visiting the salt water beaches. I don't think they are breathing salt particles as much as salt ions.

[HoseCrusher]

Kempo, exactly my point.

[roster]

Crusher, I have experienced improvement in nasal conditions when at the beach. I suspect that with wind and wave action some salt is being carried in a type of aerosol.

How about this as an alternative - http://www.healthandmed.com/p-1953-hima ... haler.aspx

[HoseCrusher]

Idamtnboy, That is interesting and has prompted me to check this out. I put high concentration salt water into my humidifier and have the hose emptying into a glass that is in an ice water bath. I hope to gather enough condensation to be able to test it.

If it is nothing but distilled water, it should test low on my PWT, but if there are some ions that make it through, it will be higher. I did a double rinse with distilled water to make sure the glass is clean. It actually tested at 1.2 on the PWT. If the salt water concentrate condenses in the glass and tests higher than that, some salt ions are making it through the process.

[HoseCrusher]

Rooster, do you think that would last all night?

[Joe50]

After a quick google I found lots of references and studies dealing with, "Breathing salt therapy". Not sure you should say there are no studies dealing with the subject. ???????

[HoseCrusher]

Joe50, The studies I reviewed all involved breathing particles of salt in the air. I think this is a little different from breathing vapor from salt water.