Nasal Pillow Users -- 50 ways to seal your mouth

[Scarlet834]

I use the Swift LT for Her. The PapCap chin strap eliminated virtually all leaks--you might look into it. Unfortunately the type of downward pressure causes tension in my neck. I don't breathe through my mouth every night, but I need to wear some sort of chin strap to make sure that doesn't happen. Don't know why, but what works for me is a velcro-closure eye mask with the eye part under my chin and the narrow elastic straps going up over my head. For a long time I used tape over the mouth, varying from a strip in the center of the mouth to covering the entire mouth. At present I use no tape at all> Not to say I have no leaks, but I am doing quite well and satisfied with my setup.

I hope you will find a solution that works for you. I think the minimal-design masks are just wonderful!

[klgm326]

I'm right there with you (except for the facial hair)! And like you, my latest "love" is the Swift LT (for Her). It does seem like there would be a better way, doesn't it? Like you, I too, have an overbite which complicates that whole closing the mouth thing. I seem to do well until an hour or two before wake up. I have the Liberty and thought it was great, but wow, my AHI went up tremendously! (and leaks were next to nothing!). I'm now experimenting with EPR (aerophagia and doc says go up...but when I go up...no gas, but high AHI, so tired and grumpy). So I definitely don't need the leaks and with the LT, that's the problem. I seem to need the chin strap AND the tape. I can't stand the Papcap that so many people love...I guess I'm built funny, but it didn't hold my chin up and it made my head itchy. The Ruby scrunches my faces all to smitherines and I have lines on my face for hours...so attractive...ughhh...Makes me tired....

Well, I just thought I thought I would help you vent...lol. No pearls of wisdom other than I'll keep on trying just like you.

[DreamOn]

Has anyone seen any posts where some sort of chin support lifts it up and attaches to the mask (whether nasal or otherwise) device itself.

There's the "RipVW100" chin strap, that fits onto the mask straps: http://cgi.ebay.com/CPAP-Chin-Strap-Sle ... ltDomain_0. I've never used it myself and I'm not sure if it gives maximum chin support, but it seems to get good reviews there. I just ordered one. The maker of this chin strap posts here from time to time. His user name is ripVW. Here is his website: http://www.ripvw.com/, where he also sells the chin strap. He offers two sizes there: Standard (for most masks) and Long (for masks such as Headrest and ComfortLite 2).

The PAPCap is the only chin strap that I've tried so far that works well for me. I can keep my tongue in position to prevent mouth leaks while awake in bed, but my tongue and jaw relax once I'm deep asleep, so my mouth opens and I lose therapy air then. So I do need to wear a chin strap. My Leak Rate is zero with the PAPCap, but I would rather not use a chin strap at all too. Sometimes it's a little warm, especially in the summertime. My machine pressure is quite low, so perhaps that's why a chin strap is all I need to prevent mouth-leaking.

I also have a prominent overbite. This makes most nasal, and many nasal pillows, masks very uncomfortable. I haven't had much luck with full-face or hybrid masks, although I do keep trying them from time to time.

Sorry that you're having so much difficulty. I hope you figure out what works best for you. The three masks in my profile work for me, but I do need a chin strap with all of them.

[plr66]

WhiteNoise, I still grieve being unable to now use a nasalpillow mask as I did for my entire first year. Had the best sleep, and my AHI quickly became consistently between 0.5 and about 1.5. I used blue delicate painters tape very successfully from the get-go with no problem whatever, until I suddenly started getting skin irritations from it. And I knew all the tricks. All other tapes I tried created more skin problems.

So I worked hard and long at trying probably 4-5 FF and the two Hybrid masks. I am not in any way enamored with ResMed, believe me. But I found that for me, the Quattro became my first low-leak FFM (unfortunately, still higher than the nasal pillows with tape, at about 1.5-2.5 AHI) due to the great dial knob which has so many increments of snugness against your nose bridge. After six months, this mask presented leak problems that were not able to be consistently resolved (or true to ReMed's decreased quality in production of nasal pillows, perhaps the cushions just became more quickly flimsy and faulty due to that inferior production issue). From that point, the Ultra Mirage FFM has seemed to fit me perfectly. I keep reading on this forum that if one doesn't work for your facial structure, then the other one probably will. I expect, however, that the cushion issue will recur, since this is another ResMed mask product.

When I look at your avatar, I can't help but wonder how you can tolerate all the straps and wrappings on your face and head, when really, a FFM is so much lighter, cooler, and simpler. Just a suggestion. And coming from one who was a die-hard, staunch believer in nasal pillows & taping!!

[jdm2857]

3M Micropore is the same as Nexcare Gentle Paper tape.

3M Transpore is the same as Nexcare Flexible Clear tape.

Read directly from the packages.

[Catnapper]

As a word of encouragement to you, I have read here of people who taped for long periods of time and then found that they had somehow learned to keep the mouth sealed without tape.

I also think that the air stent (made by the cpap) helps your body and maybe your mind relax enough to realize that air is coming in sufficiently to keep you from suffocation and that it is no longer necessary to open your mouth to breathe.

Both these things may take a long while, so you have to keep on trying with the tape, cap, etc. Leaks are so annoying. Do you sleep on your back? If so, try to sleep on your side or stomach, and that might help.

Catnapper - Joanie

[WhiteNoise]

WhiteNoise, I still grieve being unable to now use a nasalpillow mask as I did for my entire first year.

When I look at your avatar, I can't help but wonder how you can tolerate all the straps and wrappings on your face and head, when really, a FFM is so much lighter, cooler, and simpler. Just a suggestion. And coming from one who was a die-hard, staunch believer in nasal pillows & taping!!

Pir66, I'm sorry you had to stop,,,,, and as for my pic,,,, I started this post because I CAN barely tolerate what you see and so badly want to reduce anything. I tried 4 or 5 FFM and the nose bridge ones just never fit the face without incredible tightening and or scraping the bridge of my nose despite gel pads under. (which worsened the leaks up there) Maybe in the future I'll have the gumption to keep trying em on as there has to be one to fit. The one thing I do like of the FFM traditionals is breathing through my nose with them for some reason is smoother. Thank you so much for your post!

Thanks jdm for taking the time to look up the tape confirmations!

Has anyone seen any posts where some sort of chin support lifts it up and attaches to the mask (whether nasal or otherwise) device itself.

There's the "RipVW100" chin strap, that fits onto the mask straps: http://cgi.ebay.com/CPAP-Chin-Strap-Sle ... ltDomain_0. I've never used it myself and I'm not sure if it gives maximum chin support, but it seems to get good reviews there. I just ordered one. The maker of this chin strap posts here from time to time. His user name is ripVW. Here is his website: http://www.ripvw.com/, where he also sells the chin strap. He offers two sizes there: Standard (for most masks) and Long (for masks such as Headrest and ComfortLite 2).

Thanks for the link!! I guess anything one thinks has already been tried so you just have to ask the right question. The first thing would be to test the concept out and if it works buy a finished product from the clever maker to reward the approach taken all the way to market. I see that the long rear straps that can be removed from the papcap plus for headgear attachment may just hook on to the headgear straps and under the chin with the velcro there making it adjustable. This would be to close my mouth even a little for use with the liberty to combat the VERY dry mouth I get from any mouth breathing which wakes me up.

[ifrimmel]

HI

Sorry to hear you are struggling.

FF for me still offers the best experience IF and ONLY IF I don't get leaks the whole night - which is pretty much 10 nights out of 10. Re-ordered a Resmed Ultra Mirage after I broke my last one (used and abused) - having a little better luck this go round .. but nasal with tape is still what I usually end up falling back on during the night because I get irritated with the leaks.

Hybrids have proven interesting - but the nasal interface leaks like crazy during the night and are EXTREMELY noisy when they do - just like a Swift or any others do at the pressures I need to deal with. Relegated to the cupboard.

Waiting for the perfect FF. Hopefully ONE DAY someone will figure it out.

[jdm2857]

The Respironics FullLife has a chin strap built in. But it's not beefy enough to stop a determined mouth breather.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... -pack.html

[WhiteNoise]

Continued thanks for the posts. In preparation for another night this time with my liberty FF with nasal, I put on the old cushion for testing purposes (thank goodness for the S9 mask fit feature - I don't know how others do it without this) so I don't have to go through a complete wash and dry before putting the new cushion on. I find if the face and cushion aren't squeaky clean the leaks may abound and as it is I have to try and not move my face in any way or the slight distortion is enough for leaks. I don't know why,,, but the fit of the mask is tighter (even after a complete new adjustment of all straps) over the papcap than without it. I tried putting the papcap OVER the straps to get around this but couldn't get a good leak free fit no matter what! What the ? I then took everything off and started over with the mask only and still couldn't get a fit. Hmmmmmm now I am frustrated and it is likely fatigue.

I took it all off, put the new cushion on and will go back to square one earlier than usual to avoid too sleepy to have dexterity scenarios I'm sure others have experienced. Another night, another day..

May you all sleep well!

[plr66]

WhiteNoise, you've probably figured this out for yourself, but you would do better to experiment with things during the middle of the day, on your bed and pillow. Gives you time with your better-thinking to adjust things in your sleeping position.

[klgm326]

Has anyone seen any posts where some sort of chin support lifts it up and attaches to the mask (whether nasal or otherwise) device itself.

There's the "RipVW100" chin strap, that fits onto the mask straps: http://cgi.ebay.com/CPAP-Chin-Strap-Sle ... ltDomain_0. I've never used it myself and I'm not sure if it gives maximum chin support, but it seems to get good reviews there. I just ordered one. The maker of this chin strap posts here from time to time. His user name is ripVW. Here is his website: http://www.ripvw.com/, where he also sells the chin strap. He offers two sizes there: Standard (for most masks) and Long (for masks such as Headrest and ComfortLite 2).

The PAPCap is the only chin strap that I've tried so far that works well for me. I can keep my tongue in position to prevent mouth leaks while awake in bed, but my tongue and jaw relax once I'm deep asleep, so my mouth opens and I lose therapy air then. So I do need to wear a chin strap. My Leak Rate is zero with the PAPCap, but I would rather not use a chin strap at all too. Sometimes it's a little warm, especially in the summertime. My machine pressure is quite low, so perhaps that's why a chin strap is all I need to prevent mouth-leaking.

I also have a prominent overbite. This makes most nasal, and many nasal pillows, masks very uncomfortable. I haven't had much luck with full-face or hybrid masks, although I do keep trying them from time to time.

Sorry that you're having so much difficulty. I hope you figure out what works best for you. The three masks in my profile work for me, but I do need a chin strap with all of them.

Thanks for this link. I held my breath and ordered one of these. My Ruby chinstrap leaves such terrible marks on my face...ughhh...but it apparently does work! Let's hope this one does as well!
Thank you!

[happysleeper]

Hi WhiteNoise,

I can SO relate to your frustration! Here's my latest fix, which I believe for me is keeping my mouth shut with my nasal pillows at minimum leaks: I use polygrip strips to glue my lips together, with a vertical piece of gentle micropore paper tape to prevent my jaw from opening. No leaks, and my tape-sensitive skin has the least amount of tape on it. Here are the steps to apply:

* Cut two polygrip strips in 1/2.
* Moisten top of lower lip (where lips touch) with water.
* Moisten a piece of polygrip and place it in the corner area of the lower lip, horizontally. Continue with two more 1/2 strips, one in the middle area of the lower lip and one in the other corner area. You now have a smile of polygrip on the lower lip. You'll have one 1/2 strip left over to save for another night.
* Moisten upper lip and close mouth. Lips should stick together--you can press them together to help start the seal. This creates a relatively air-less seal, but not too strong. Some folks can get away with just this.
* Cut a 1 1/2 inch piece of micropore paper tape. Fold one edge over for easy removal. Apply vertically over both the top and bottom lips, with the tab at the bottom so that it doesn't get in the way of the nasal pillows. Whala! Mouth more strongly supported to stay closed, with minimal mouth air leaks.

I use a mouthguard, as I tend to grind my teeth. I tried various chin straps, but I also felt my throat closing, or they were just too hot/biting into my neck.
I seem to be doing OK without a chinstrap with the above taping. When I tried using just tape I had the drool factor, waking up in the middle of the night with slimy lips inside the tape, unpleasant, and eventually would have blown off. Drool factor contained with the above set-up.

I also have an alarm in the wall socket that will make a loud noise and wake up me if the power goes off. As using a nasal mask with mouth tape provides no rebreathe prevention valve for if the power goes out (which the FFMs do have), I want to be sure that I wake up and take the mask off in the event of a power outage.

Sweet dreams! ~Happy Sleeper

[WhiteNoise]

WhiteNoise, you've probably figured this out for yourself, but you would do better to experiment with things during the middle of the day, on your bed and pillow. Gives you time with your better-thinking to adjust things in your sleeping position.

I guess I may have finally figured this out Trouble is,,, without good sleep successively at night the days aren't much clearer either,,Middle of the day for sure!

Hi WhiteNoise,

I can SO relate to your frustration! Here's my latest fix, which I believe for me is keeping my mouth shut with my nasal pillows at minimum leaks: I use polygrip strips to glue my lips together, with a vertical piece of gentle micropore paper tape to prevent my jaw from opening. No leaks, and my tape-sensitive skin has the least amount of tape on it. Here are the steps to apply:

* Cut two polygrip strips in 1/2.
* Moisten top of lower lip (where lips touch) with water.
* Moisten a piece of polygrip and place it in the corner area of the lower lip, horizontally. Continue with two more 1/2 strips, one in the middle area of the lower lip and one in the other corner area. You now have a smile of polygrip on the lower lip. You'll have one 1/2 strip left over to save for another night.
* Moisten upper lip and close mouth. Lips should stick together--you can press them together to help start the seal. This creates a relatively air-less seal, but not too strong. Some folks can get away with just this.
* Cut a 1 1/2 inch piece of micropore paper tape. Fold one edge over for easy removal. Apply vertically over both the top and bottom lips, with the tab at the bottom so that it doesn't get in the way of the nasal pillows. Whala! Mouth more strongly supported to stay closed, with minimal mouth air leaks.

I use a mouthguard, as I tend to grind my teeth. I tried various chin straps, but I also felt my throat closing, or they were just too hot/biting into my neck.
I seem to be doing OK without a chinstrap with the above taping. When I tried using just tape I had the drool factor, waking up in the middle of the night with slimy lips inside the tape, unpleasant, and eventually would have blown off. Drool factor contained with the above set-up.

I also have an alarm in the wall socket that will make a loud noise and wake up me if the power goes off. As using a nasal mask with mouth tape provides no rebreathe prevention valve for if the power goes out (which the FFMs do have), I want to be sure that I wake up and take the mask off in the event of a power outage.

Sweet dreams! ~Happy Sleeper

Well this is the first time I've seen this suggestion. I did try the polident strips (one in the middle) a few times but it always blew out and I had to work quite a bit to get the "cemented" material from between my teeth. I was successful one time with a tape strip down vertical and that made a lot of sense and held fine in my ffm but I doubt it would alone with the pillows. Combined, I can imagine would hold with the nasals for sure! Only problem for me (always the special case it seems) is I need to wake up sometime in the middle of the night to drink some water with some tryptophan and valerian or I wake up too early. I have a ZEO brain wave sleep monitoring device which shows I get another 2 hours of brain fog clearing REM after taking the supplementals around 4am. http://www.myzeo.com/ if anyone cares to read a little about it. Another member here uses one and he is the one who told me about this board.

Last night, I found that my old cushion testing (leaks) were likely due to an oily skin and cushion problem (coupled with late in the day brain fog as pir66 suggested) and when I applied the full regalia per pic it was a zero leaker all night. (but man,, i feel locked up in that get up) I guess I'll do a few more nights in "The Fly" outfit and after I feel rested, will go back at it and try one of my (now 3 in waiting) nasal pillow masks (siwft lt swift fx opus 360) with the polident and tape strip down vertical.

[Tired Linda]

[quote="happysleeper"]

When I tried using just tape I had the drool factor, waking up in the middle of the night with slimy lips inside the tape, unpleasant, and eventually would have blown off. Drool factor contained with the above set-up.

_______________________
Happy Sleeper, this gives me hope! Off to CVS for some strips to try this afternoon for a "dry run."
2" wide Nexcare surgical paper tape holds my lips shut all night, but I wake up with it soaking wet (still sealed) and I'm concerned about possibly developing skin irritation. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks.

L