S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

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DreamDiver
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by DreamDiver » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:49 am

dave21 wrote:Is it the flow again that's skewed by 15 seconds?

Was the previous night okay and last night it jumped from no skew to 15 seconds?

If yes, did you do anything different in the last day?

Thanks
Dave
Yesterday it was 8 seconds. The day before it was 4 seconds. Today it's 15 seconds. Oddly though, the events still seem to line up with the flow. I keep forgetting to lock the card before putting it in. I close without saving and try putting it in locked, but I still see the increasing skew. It's kind of a comedy of errors that I keep doing it that way.

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dave21
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by dave21 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:28 pm

Here's the process I go through if this helps on a daily basis...

Morning wake up
1. Wake up
2. Power machine off
3. Have a bathroom break (approx 2 mins)
4. Come back and now eject card (I don't eject it directly after switching S9 off just in case there's some write-back cache happening)
5. Lock SD card
6. Insert SD card into laptop
7. Create new folder on my USB Hard Disk
8. Copy entire contents of card into newly created folder
9. Launch ResScan and click CLOSE to card detection wizard
10. Open Patient
11. Select DOWNLOAD
12. Select DISCARD
13. Once download is complete, click CLOSE
14. Click SAVE twice
15. Once I've looked at my data close ResScan
16. Only when ResScan is fully closed eject the SD card (although that shouldn't really matter if it's locked.
17. Unlock SD card

Evening ready for bed
1. Unplug S9 for 2 minutes
2. Go fill up water reservoir for the H5i (takes approx 2 mins)
3. Place water reservoir into the H5i
4. Plug the S9 back in
5. Ensure it reads the card okay and no error is on screen
6. Get into bed, start warming up the water in the H5i for about 5 mins
7. Put mask on
8. Press power button to start machine

S9 usage per day
1. I'm only reading the SD card once a day
2. I'm only using the S9 once a day (I don't take any naps with it)

Firmware version
1. Hold down INFO + SETUP for 3 seconds
2. Go into SERVICE MENU
4. SW = SX474-0601

I'm wondering if it might be advisable seeing that you're getting it skew a lot quicker than I am whether it's worth erasing the SD card and also going into the SETUP menu and using the ERASE option there too. I'm guessing it will probably erase the summary data held in RAM in the S9.

The only thing I don't have enabled is the SmartStart feature as I don't like this.

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fiberfan
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by fiberfan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:26 pm

I formatted my card yesterday. When I checked data today there is no flow skew.

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dave21
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by dave21 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:36 am

5x nights now and no skewing massively.

I did notice the previous nights 1 second flow overrun increased to 2 seconds at the end of last night.

- Still keeping my SD card write protected when inserting into PC
- Still power cycling the S9 prior to use

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DreamDiver
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by DreamDiver » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:41 pm

22 seconds last night. I tried everything. I tried rebooting my computer before porting my data. I tried porting the data using the 'no patient' feature so it wouldn't save. I did everything right, but the skew keeps getting bigger - even though the skew for the events remains aligned with where they show up in flow. Weird. I think I'll clear my card and start again.

Dave - thanks so much for the recap of the best practices. It really helped. Cheers.

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Also using quattro full face alternately - standard/medium

DreamOn
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by DreamOn » Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:39 pm

A few rambling thoughts, for what they're worth [probably nothing]....

Dave and DreamDiver and you other S9 Pioneers, how many days of detailed data are you downloading each time--just one day? Is everyone doing that the same way? DreamDiver, as I recall you take naps quite often. I get the impression that Dave doesn't. Could this be affecting the data? Also, with my S8 machine and ResScan 3.7, I always download the previous night's data before noon. Could the time of data download be affecting anything?

manas
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by manas » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:09 pm

Dave: Maybe we need this info on a "S9 Data Download Best Practices" wiki, or a sticky thread.

I still haven't received my S9, thought I am ready with the software all installed, and have a question on transfering data. I have the software installed on myd esktop, and shall be carrying my Windows laptop while I travel for a month on vacation. Is there a way for me to copy the data back frm my laptop to the desktop when I return and combine the 2 databases? How are folks dealing with these kinds of issues right now?

Also, can dave21 clarify
1) what is the need to copy entire contents of SD into a new folder on USB hard drive? Is it effectively a deaily backup? What is the naming convention you use/recommend?
2) When you DOWLOAD (step 10), do you download from the copied folder, or the SD card?

Ideally, I am looking fora good way of
a) combining data from different computers
b) backing up the data so it can be restored later, if needed.

I suspect your USB disk is your serving both purposes. Maybe if I carry my USB disk during trave, it solves the problem.

Manas

dave21 wrote:Here's the process I go through if this helps on a daily basis...

Morning wake up
1. Wake up
2. Power machine off
3. Have a bathroom break (approx 2 mins)
4. Come back and now eject card (I don't eject it directly after switching S9 off just in case there's some write-back cache happening)
5. Lock SD card
6. Insert SD card into laptop
7. Create new folder on my USB Hard Disk
8. Copy entire contents of card into newly created folder
9. Launch ResScan and click CLOSE to card detection wizard
10. Open Patient
11. Select DOWNLOAD
12. Select DISCARD
13. Once download is complete, click CLOSE
14. Click SAVE twice
15. Once I've looked at my data close ResScan
16. Only when ResScan is fully closed eject the SD card (although that shouldn't really matter if it's locked.
17. Unlock SD card

Evening ready for bed
1. Unplug S9 for 2 minutes
2. Go fill up water reservoir for the H5i (takes approx 2 mins)
3. Place water reservoir into the H5i
4. Plug the S9 back in
5. Ensure it reads the card okay and no error is on screen
6. Get into bed, start warming up the water in the H5i for about 5 mins
7. Put mask on
8. Press power button to start machine

S9 usage per day
1. I'm only reading the SD card once a day
2. I'm only using the S9 once a day (I don't take any naps with it)

Firmware version
1. Hold down INFO + SETUP for 3 seconds
2. Go into SERVICE MENU
4. SW = SX474-0601

I'm wondering if it might be advisable seeing that you're getting it skew a lot quicker than I am whether it's worth erasing the SD card and also going into the SETUP menu and using the ERASE option there too. I'm guessing it will probably erase the summary data held in RAM in the S9.

The only thing I don't have enabled is the SmartStart feature as I don't like this.

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Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
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DreamDiver
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by DreamDiver » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:21 pm

DreamOn wrote:A few rambling thoughts, for what they're worth [probably nothing]....

Dave and DreamDiver and you other S9 Pioneers, how many days of detailed data are you downloading each time--just one day? Is everyone doing that the same way? DreamDiver, as I recall you take naps quite often. I get the impression that Dave doesn't. Could this be affecting the data? Also, with my S8 machine and ResScan 3.7, I always download the previous night's data before noon. Could the time of data download be affecting anything?
I generally download last night's data and yesterday's nap data after I take my morning bathroom break or after breakfast. I've stopped downloading directly after naps. It's enough to see the AHI and nap duration. I take usually one nap a day, and that's usually after 12:00 noon, sometime around 2:30 or 3:00 - sometimes as late as 4:30, and usually for less than two hours.

I have it set to quick start - not that quick start is all that quick. It usually takes a minute before it recognizes the SD card. It asks me if I want to overwrite or discard duplicate data. Since the data isn't really duplicate, I discard it. That way, I end up just with the newest data since last time I downloaded. At least that's the theory. I try to remember to lock the SD card before inserting it into the USB SD card adapter.

I also more often than not take the card out of the machine more than once in a 24 hour period. In removing and replacing the unlocked SD card more than once a day from the S9, I wonder if there is some deleterious effect that causes the skew.

_________________
Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Pressure: APAP 10.4 | 12
Also using quattro full face alternately - standard/medium

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billbolton
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by billbolton » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:42 pm

DreamDiver wrote:I also more often than not take the card out of the machine more than once in a 24 hour period. In removing and replacing the unlocked SD card more than once a day from the S9, I wonder if there is some deleterious effect that causes the skew.
I've been using my S9 for over a week and I've been doing exactly what I did with my S8.

I take the card out of the machine in the morning after I've had a shower, and then switch the S9 off at the power outlet.

I take the card downstairs and leave it near my PC.

When I get a chance durng the day (usually after getting home from work) , I put the SD card (unlocked) into my SD reader and fire up ResScan 3.10. I open up my patient file in ResScan and then manually download the data, telling ResScan to discard any duplicates, and look at my data before saving it and closing down ResScan.

Then I take the SD Card out of the reader (no "eject") and put it back into the switched off S9.

I'm not seeing any data skew issues or any SD card problems.

YMMV

Cheers,

Bill

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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by billbolton » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:54 pm

manas wrote:I have the software installed on my desktop, and shall be carrying my Windows laptop while I travel for a month on vacation.
This is very straightforward, and I do it when I travel.

Just copy the whole data directory location where you have ResScan storing your data across to you laptop on the day you leave for vacation. (You might wantto rename the directory on your desktop system after you have doen this, so that it is a snapshot of your data up until the time you left).

On vacation just keep adding your daily data to ResScan as normal.

On the day you return home, copy the directory back from your laptop to the desktop. If you did the renaming of thd deskop directory before you left, that's all you need to do. If you didn't do the renaming, you will need to tell Windows to overwrite the existing files in the desktop data directory.
manas wrote:what is the need to copy entire contents of SD into a new folder on USB hard drive?

Explicitly copying the contents of the SD card anywhere seems quite pointless to me.

Cheers,

Bill

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bigk
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by bigk » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:06 pm

Explicitly copying the contents of the SD card anywhere seems quite pointless to me.
As it does to me. I agree 100% with what Bill has said here. It is exactly the same as I am seeing.

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dave21
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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by dave21 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:56 pm

DreamOn wrote:Dave and DreamDiver and you other S9 Pioneers, how many days of detailed data are you downloading each time--just one day?
Just one day at a time and not overwriting any other data within ResScan. I don't take naps so mine is a complete days session.
manas wrote:Dave: Maybe we need this info on a "S9 Data Download Best Practices" wiki, or a sticky thread.
I'm still waiting to see if my data skews again. DreamDiver's data and KatieW's was skewing a lot more soon than mine, but so far so good for me. I agree I think it would be good to have it where every S9 reader can see it.
manas wrote:Is there a way for me to copy the data back frm my laptop to the desktop when I return and combine the 2 databases? How are folks dealing with these kinds of issues right now?
There's no easy way to merge, you could create two separate patient profiles and merge these into one folder but then you're going to have two patients. Personally what I would do would be to import as usual onto your laptop when you're on holiday but also make backups of the card every 5-7 days into a folder (each week have a different folder). That way you can write these to another blank SD card when you get back and import them.

The other solution is that before going away, copy your patient folder on your PC to your Laptop. Continue using it on your laptop and when you come back before importing another session copy the patient folder back. That might be more useful to you.
manas wrote:Also, can dave21 clarify
1) what is the need to copy entire contents of SD into a new folder on USB hard drive? Is it effectively a deaily backup? What is the naming convention you use/recommend?
Yes, it's just a daily backup I do.
manas wrote:2) When you DOWLOAD (step 10), do you download from the copied folder, or the SD card?
From the SD card.
billbolton wrote:Explicitly copying the contents of the SD card anywhere seems quite pointless to me.
Hi Bill, as I have mentioned before on other threads, some people want to keep their entire SD card intact. For me I provide my stats back directly to ResMed (i'm carrying various mask testing for ResMed and also they want to see how well the S9 is performing out in the field compared to 4 years with of S8 usage - bear in mind I have a super high AHI of 141.2 when I'm off the machine so I'm a good benchmark test). Likewise for others, their DME or Sleep Doctor maybe wanting to see a full cards worth of detailed data (hires will go after 7 days), so this is the main reason for doing backups because you can then very quickly reconstruct a full card, write it out and provide it to the Doctor/DME. Each for their own. But, if you just do a simple import into ResScan you can't easily reconstruct an SD card if you need to.

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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by dave21 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:18 am

6x nights now and no skewing massively.

- Still keeping my SD card write protected when inserting into PC
- Still power cycling the S9 prior to use

I still think it has something to do with the S9's internal memory that if it starts to run away and skew itself it skews more and more, so power cycling regularly is helping keep the skew under control.

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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by billbolton » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:15 am

dave21 wrote:so this is the main reason for doing backups because you can then very quickly reconstruct a full card, write it out and provide it to the Doctor/DME.
You seem to be determined to make things overly complex!

The number of clinicians, etc, who show any real interest in machine data is truly miniscule, and I see nothing to indicate that the data available from S9 is going to change that to a point where SD cards need to be reconstructed

Cheers,

Bill

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Re: S9 flow skew bug... Anyone else seeing this?

Post by bigk » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:21 am

I'm yet to see a DME interested in anything but compliance data and that is written to the card anyway.

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