S9 Reviews

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
jnk
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by jnk » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:59 pm

WillSucceed wrote:. . . For what it is worth JNK, I, and others I suspect, are very interested to read a variety of posts with a variety of thoughts/opinions. This difference makes for interesting and informative reading.
Thanks for that, WillSucceed. I needed to hear it.

My problem is that my questions are based mostly on my ignorance, so I can see how my questions can be irritating to some, like dsm. And I tend to play devil's advocate when the tide seems to be going all one way on most any subject. Guys like me can be dangerous, I guess, because my opinions on machines can be unpredictable, even to me. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with ResMed. I love their machines, but I am frightened of the influence of any company that big. That is my disclosure statement for where I am coming from.

And that is why fantastic reviews like DreamDiver's, and others', are so valuable to me. I hope this thread fills up with many more reviews. There is strength in numbers, and a large number of reviews should give a good picture, I hope.

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DreamDiver
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by DreamDiver » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:06 pm

I've been re-reading this thread with great interest. A couple things come to mind.
First, I want to apologize for coming off like a ResMed fanboy. Posts by jnk, carbonman and others who have been skeptical have offered balanced perspective that has helped me a lot. Thank you. Second, to those who have said it's helped - believe me - it's helped me as much just to get such great feedback and diverse perspectives. Thank you too.

Third, I've noticed that my AHI is actually higher, on average than it was on the M-Series Pro, similar to the broad opinion Rested Gal shared recently suggesting that numbers are characteristically higher on Resmed than Respironics. The software, however, is presented differently, forcing me to look at the data in new ways. It's made me realize that maybe the number of apneas may not be as important as the apnea duration -- something that was also suggested, I think, at one point in this thread.

Another thing I've noticed is worse O2 events than on the Respironics machine. That may in part be from various differences in S9's algorithms, or it may be because I haven't found the ideal titration for this machine yet. I noticed experienced similar O2 events with my Respironics machine when I first started using the oximeter. So I'm learning that the machine is really good, but mainly it's different from my previous Respironics machine. I'm still learning how to make it useful for me.

Ultimately, being able to isolate examples of the Periodic Breathing, FOT and COS on a wave-by-wave basis in the ultra-high-resolution data doesn't really give us anything except the likelihood that the data isn't filtered. It's possible that the ResMed algorithms are skewing the results and that we're seeing what amounts to a 'Hollywood' placebo affect. But after being able to find predictable data in waves without them being pointed out by algorithms, it seems more likely that FOT really is a better method for detecting centrals than bands and exhale attempts or COS - in which case, if there really is game-changing information that will reshape how we perceive the data to better purpose, it may be good thing. Maybe our previous methods for detecting central apneas were less reliable than we thought.

The real difference for me lies in the ultra-high resolution data available with the Resmed machine and consequently so easily dissected with the ResScan software. I'd love to compare it with data from a System One using the Encore Pro 2.2 software. Anyone care to send me a zip of the data on your System One SD Card? What size SD card does the System One use? (Note to self -- buy a couple cheap SD cards...)

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dsm
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by dsm » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:18 pm

jnk wrote:
WillSucceed wrote:. . . For what it is worth JNK, I, and others I suspect, are very interested to read a variety of posts with a variety of thoughts/opinions. This difference makes for interesting and informative reading.
Thanks for that, WillSucceed. I needed to hear it.

My problem is that my questions are based mostly on my ignorance, so I can see how my questions can be irritating to some, like dsm. And I tend to play devil's advocate when the tide seems to be going all one way on most any subject. Guys like me can be dangerous, I guess, because my opinions on machines can be unpredictable, even to me. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with ResMed. I love their machines, but I am frightened of the influence of any company that big. That is my disclosure statement for where I am coming from.

And that is why fantastic reviews like DreamDiver's, and others', are so valuable to me. I hope this thread fills up with many more reviews. There is strength in numbers, and a large number of reviews should give a good picture, I hope.
But JNK,

Would you agree that the best reviews - good or bad - come from someone who tries that actual device out ?

DSM

PS I really enjoy lots of what you say here at cpaptalk, I do hope that we can question each other without it triggering unneeded overreactions.
I was sure surprised when you smacked yourself in the eye then pointed to me in that one memorable post

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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by Dr. G » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:00 am

I'm nw to this forum and will get an s9 tomorrow. Any basic advice how to read the card. The DSM guy said the "doctor will read it for you." Yea, right!

Thanks. Great forum.

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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by jnk » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:58 am

dsm wrote: . . . unneeded overreactions. . . . smacked yourself in the eye . . .
Wow. You keep finding new ways to call the people around you stupid, don't you.
dsm wrote: . . . I am a friend - really
One must assess that claim by observing actions in harmony with those expressed intentions.

But if that was meant to be some kind of an implied apology, I accept. Only because DoriC may be reading, though.

jeff

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Llama
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by Llama » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:07 am

Has anyone here actually gotten an oximeter that hooks into the S9? I am still waiting for my DME to set my appointment when my S9 arrives, but am already trying to trick it out. I think I read some posts about S9 oximetry packages, but didn't know if anyone actually got one or knew where to get one. Having ResScan have all the data in a single place with a single timeline would be awesome.

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jnk
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by jnk » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:31 am

Llama wrote:Has anyone here actually gotten an oximeter that hooks into the S9? I am still waiting for my DME to set my appointment when my S9 arrives, but am already trying to trick it out. I think I read some posts about S9 oximetry packages, but didn't know if anyone actually got one or knew where to get one. Having ResScan have all the data in a single place with a single timeline would be awesome.
We should all take up a collection and buy DreamDiver one of those oximeter adapters. It would be worth it for the review and graphics.

In fact, if ResMed was smart, they would donate one to him.

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ozij
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by ozij » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:05 pm

I've been using an SPO Medical 7500 pulse oxymeter with a sampling frequency of 1 second concurrently with the S8 (the old one) for a few months now. The software that comes with the oxymeter lets you drill down to even greater granulatrity's than ResScan. So I compare time segments on ResScan and on VitaScore (the SPO Medical software).

Something in my therapy is not working proprely at this point -- which is why I am daily extremely impressed by the correspondence between Resmed's recorded hypopneas on the S8, and my 5%-8% destaturations. I'm dieing to try this with the S9.

O.

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dsm
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by dsm » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:54 am

ozij wrote:I've been using an SPO Medical 7500 pulse oxymeter with a sampling frequency of 1 second concurrently with the S8 (the old one) for a few months now. The software that comes with the oxymeter lets you drill down to even greater granulatrity's than ResScan. So I compare time segments on ResScan and on VitaScore (the SPO Medical software).

Something in my therapy is not working proprely at this point -- which is why I am daily extremely impressed by the correspondence between Resmed's recorded hypopneas on the S8, and my 5%-8% destaturations. I'm dieing to try this with the S9.

O.
Ozij

You are very valuable to cpaptalk - please don't be to enthusiastic about hat 'dieing' bit - please stay with us

DSM
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ozij
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by ozij » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:30 am

Thank you, dsm. I'll do my best to live a long and healthy life....

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And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.
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Good advice is compromised by missing data
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Arizona-Willie
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by Arizona-Willie » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:43 am

I've seen posts where people question whether the S9 has actually improved treatment or has " doctored " their software to not show so many hypopneas etc. as it did with the S8's.

Using a recording pulse / oximeter should offer some proof of better treatment, if it is better.
Like always when dealing with xpap, what works for one doesn't do so good for another.

But, if your pulse / oximeter is showing better results most nights and the S9 is showing a lower AHI, then it probably is doing a better job. Occam's Razor.

One or two nights won't tell the entire story, I'm sure.

So far, I've only used the S9 3 nights and the first night I didn't get detailed data due to my screwup with the SD card.
However, all 3 nights my p/o has shown somewhat better SO numbers than it generally did before.
But again, a couple of nights is not proof of the pudding. It will take awhile to get solid answers.
Subjectively, people are reporting feeling better, but it may just be the " magic machine " affect.

I doubt that Resmed would jimmy the software / firmware to simply report better numbers.
They have too much to lose and there are too many people watching them and testing their machine(s) every way we can think of.
And this is only one of several sites on the internet dedicated to xpap.

And, I believe Respironics is probably testing the S9 also looking for anything they can use to claim their machine is better.

It just would be a very boneheaded thing for Resmed to invest millions of dollars in engineering and manufacturing the new machines and " fiddling " the firmware to make it " lie ".

I'm still testing with the S9 set to CPAP and my standard pressure.
Next week, I will switch to auto and see how that works out.
I'm looking forward to that.

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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by DreamOn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:31 am

Thanks for posting that information, Arizona-Willie. I think it's a great idea to use the pulse oximeter to verify whether treatment is actually more effective by comparing S9 oximeter results to oximeter results from your previous machine. I hope that you'll continue to do this and let us know what you observe longer term! That would be more objective evidence for me than "how you feel" since that can be influenced by a placebo effect. I know that I would certainly FEEL better if I had a shiny new machine on my bedside table!

I don't have an S9 machine, so I'm not qualified to review it. Although I don't think it likely that ResMed has made the S9 "lie", I do find the spectacular results that some are reporting to be a bit suspect. I'd sure like to know how much they've changed the way the machine defines a "hypopnea", especially since there seem to be SO many less hypopneas being reported by the machine. Is it actually preventing the hypopneas from occurring or just defining them differently?

Keep the reports coming everyone! I'm very interested in this machine.

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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by carbonman » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:21 pm

Arizona-Willie wrote:It just would be a very boneheaded thing for Resmed to invest millions of dollars in engineering and manufacturing the new machines and " fiddling " the firmware to make it " lie ".
A-W, I'm here.....I'm watch'n.....you.

I'm all ears.
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to see or feel those changes, you'll never know what you're capable of."
I said that.

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Uncle_Bob
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by Uncle_Bob » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:00 pm

I'm 5 nights in on the S9 and am getting great numbers, my highest AHI is 2.2 and my lowest 0

The highest AHI was when i switched to the new Swift FX mask, all other AHIs have been below 1. I'm back to the Swift LT as I find it harder to breath with the FX, not enough air flow and I feel like i have to suck it in. And i don't wanna suck.

My fault i shouldn't be changing machine AND mask in the same week, naughty.

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dsm
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Re: S9 Reviews

Post by dsm » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:30 pm

carbonman wrote:
Arizona-Willie wrote:It just would be a very boneheaded thing for Resmed to invest millions of dollars in engineering and manufacturing the new machines and " fiddling " the firmware to make it " lie ".
A-W, I'm here.....I'm watch'n.....you.

I'm all ears.

Luvya C'Man

I too 've been wondering if the improvement everyone feels is entirely because the AHI is suddenly so low. WOW factor that boosts well being. The ultimate placebo effect.

BUT thankfully we have folk like Arizona-Willie who are objective enough to see through any such sham and who will tell us like it is over time as they get past any WOW influence.

DSM
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