Meet the minds behind the S9

[ozij]

If anyone wan't to know why the design is so user unfriendly (hose in the back!), just listen to those proud designers on the video in packitin's link: http://www.s9morecomfort.com/s9morecomfort/en_gb/

Meet the mindse behind the S9

That wonderful (hose in the back, yay, great looks, hurray, was used by Sandman 2 years ago, but the way...)

They really believe compliance is based on how the device looks....

(Australian accent...) "We access, for the first time to some of the best market research I've ever seen at ResMed"
(German accent...) "We went into the market talked to all our distribuion customers to understand what important to them"

01:03: "If your best friend's got one of these, you want one too, just have in on your bedside table"
02:48: "It really has brought ResMed into the 21st century,of you know, of consumer products rather than being a medical device company"

Nah.... the don't. They believe buying a device is based on how it looks:
03:50: (American accent):"Really make a positive first impression on the patient, that the patient will be happy to take this home...."

The engineers are the ones who sound like they know what its all about... I bet that gray haired bespectacled Brit uses one!

Edited typos in last sentence

[KatieW]

Yes, I thought their marketing approach was similar to a car ad: "buy this one...it's sleek and shiny, and all your friends will want one too!"

If there were truth in advertising, the ad would read: "We know cpap therapy is cumbersome and uncomfortable, but you will be so much healthier if you use it anyway. And we want you to buy our machine, so we made it prettier."

[Muse-Inc]

The thing's ugly IMO, the hose is in back which is horribly inconvenient so ya gotta turn it backwards to get the most hose length & then ya can't read the LED...what were they drinking when they dreamed this up? A smiley face? For pete's sake we're adults not children who need to be entertained by a device intended to help us survive sleeping -- we are demeaned by patronizing engineers/designers. I cannot fathom what they were thinking...NOT...in making ya turn one dial (that projects way above the machine and makes me concerned about how well it packs and travels) to view things then push, then dial then push and push again to confirm with no prompts...this is not intuitive and not user friendly in the least. Push dial twice to navigate, then dial, then push, then push, then dial, then push twice...insane.

WOW factor? Are they nuts? IT IS A MEDICAL DEVICE, you nitwits, that's why I bought it. They can keep repeating you're in control and tout how easy it is to use all they want but that's in complete contradiction to reality.

You failed to make it easier to use ResMed; you distinctly make me NOT want to use it. I have no desire to sit it next to my bed. Positive experience using the device...I don't think so.

And what's the deal with the model sleeping on his back? With rare exceptions, we don't sleep on our backs because it invariably increases apneic events! And the implied sleep doc model looks like she's in her 20s, no way I'm going to a 20-something for advice on how not to die during my sleep...and did ya get a glimpse of the extended fingernails, like those claws are gonna make me trust that doc???

EDIT: The S9 is not all bad, the new humidifier system (heated hose) looks great! The videos suggest that the user sets the temperature and the machine sets the humidity to a std of 44% relative humidity...what do we users do who crank up the humidity when we get a cold/sionus ? Guess that's not gonna be an option with the S9 models...pity, that was really good. Guess not having rainout is the tradeoff.

[rosacer]

What a joke! She says they were to the market and asked the consumers what they wanted Which market The machine is so beautiful that each one who uses it won't have any of the difficulties we normal users have had trying to attain compliance with our ugly machines That's a comedy! I wonder if only one of them have ever had to sleep with a mask on his/her face. That's an insult to our inteligence.

We the users are the ones who have the last say. Are we going to buy it only because it's new and looks different or are we going to send a message to Resmed? The power is in our side (pockets ).

My next machine will very probably be something else than a Resmed, I don't appreciate at all their monopolistics ways trying to control what should be a free market economy with all kind of legal tricks. When you have a real good product you don't need to treat your costumers like hostages, are they scared of something or it's a case of simple and plain greed?

[Slinky]

The sad thing is the majority of new CPAP users just take what their local DME providers gives them and don't know one whit better so Resmed will get away w/the S9s just fine.

I liked Resmed much better under Ferrell (sp?) than I do under McKiernan or whatever his face is. Er, name is.

[rested gal]

Very sad.

They like to use faces now?

Here's one for them:

[Uncle_Bob]

I can't wait to get my hands on one of these.

If the features work as described it should be great.
I think it will look better on my nightstand and I LOVE the fact that the hose is at the back and they made it smaller by using a power brick, maybe it has to be there because of the electronics associated with the climate control. Right now i have my S8 positioned awkwardly as you can see from the photo. Having the hose come out the back of the machine will enhance my hose management.



The climate control will mean i can get ride of the snuggle hose and repti cable.

But the bottom line has to be therapy, it has to be at least as good as my S8

[Slinky]

I guess I don't have to worrry about an S9. I seriously doubt they will be coming out w/an S9 VPAP Auto any time soon since they just introduced the VPAP Auto and Auto 25 in 2008. *sigh* First time I've ever gotten in line TOO early. I'm almost always one of those who will be late for their own funeral.

[dsm]

The thing's ugly IMO, the hose is in back which is horribly inconvenient so ya gotta turn it backwards to get the most hose length & then ya can't read the LED...what were they drinking when they dreamed this up? A smiley face? For pete's sake we're adults not children who need to be entertained by a device intended to help us survive sleeping -- we are demeaned by patronizing engineers/designers. I cannot fathom what they were thinking...NOT...in making ya turn one dial (that projects way above the machine and makes me concerned about how well it packs and travels) to view things then push, then dial then push and push again to confirm with no prompts...this is not intuitive and not user friendly in the least. Push dial twice to navigate, then dial, then push, then push, then dial, then push twice...insane.

DSM: Muse-Inc, Gotta admit I still like the S8 - it is easy to keep beside the bed, easy to fill & appearance might be medical but that is what it is

WOW factor? Are they nuts? IT IS A MEDICAL DEVICE, you nitwits, that's why I bought it. They can keep repeating you're in control and tout how easy it is to use all they want but that's in complete contradiction to reality.

DSM: I think they really believe that if it looks 'mod' then others will not feel intimidated by it - I can understand that logic

You failed to make it easier to use ResMed; you distinctly make me NOT want to use it. I have no desire to sit it next to my bed. Positive experience using the device...I don't think so.

DSM: Hmmm, how do you know until you tried one ?

And what's the deal with the model sleeping on his back? With rare exceptions, we don't sleep on our backs because it invariably increases apneic events! And the implied sleep doc model looks like she's in her 20s, no way I'm going to a 20-something for advice on how not to die during my sleep...and did ya get a glimpse of the extended fingernails, like those claws are gonna make me trust that doc???

DSM: dunno why a marketing video would be any sort of issue ? - the real issue is SDB ? (isn't it )

EDIT: The S9 is not all bad, the new humidifier system (heated hose) looks great! The videos suggest that the user sets the temperature and the machine sets the humidity to a std of 44% relative humidity...what do we users do who crank up the humidity when we get a cold/sionus ? Guess that's not gonna be an option with the S9 models...pity, that was really good. Guess not having rainout is the tradeoff.

DSM: 'Not all Bad' ? - the thing is barely out the door, offers the biggest advances in sleep monitoring (for Resmed) & algorithms (in possibly 10+ years), we have very little feedback from users & it is 'not all bad' ? - lets get some real user experiences & then we can better tell - save the 'wake' for after the funeral

[Muse-Inc]

Ahh, I'm just pissed they put a smiley or frowny face for mask fit appropriate for a child...makes me think that's what they think of us users.

DSM: Hmmm, how do you know until you tried one ?

Watched the video of the guy using it...even with a lot of my brain back I'll need a cheat sheet at bedtime to remember which order I push, dial, push, dial, push, push to set the temp I want using that new climate control hose ! That is not a user friendly sequence.

DSM: dunno why a marketing video would be any sort of issue ? - the real issue is SDB ? (isn't it )

It's the complete missing the point of CPAP therapy that underlies the marketing videos that makes us all out to be complete dolts that pisses me off. Like I'm gonna use it more because they think it's mod, 21th century, whoopdedoo..sorry, getting carried away with my reaction to the videos. The focus is not on effective therapy, instead it's focused on selling what they see as the WOW of the S9. Any perceived WOW factor is NOT gonna make me take to CPAP therapy...it sucks for most in the beginning regardless of the WOW. Not that I have any strong feelings about those videos or anything

..offers the biggest advances in sleep monitoring (for Resmed) & algorithms (in possibly 10+ years)

That's just it...I am not sure that this really is an advance even tho they think so (sounds like they're just copying Respironics in reporting more data). I am not sure that reporting clear airway apnea provides any useful info for users...what are we supposed to do when it's reported except possibly scaring ourselves by worrying that we are having centrals? It uses FOT and makes me wonder if those who are challenged by the varying pressures of an APAP aren't likely to find FOT just as challenging even given these are microbursts...we're coming to understand just how sensitive the human body is to exceedingly subtle shifts and variations in sensory input. Could it be that the only real effective change to therapy with the new algorithm is that now the device will respond to the precursors of apneas when running >10 pressure? Does it not respond on the basis of precursors with increased pressure as it did before when running <10? Or, does it wait until the event is scored, then test to see if the airway is closed and then increase pressure if closed or not increase pressure if the airway is clear. This is completely opaque to me...does it or does it not respond to precursors? Precursors occur before collapse.

[dsm]

<snip>

..offers the biggest advances in sleep monitoring (for Resmed) & algorithms (in possibly 10+ years)

That's just it...I am not sure that this really is an advance even tho they think so (sounds like they're just copying Respironics in reporting more data). I am not sure that reporting clear airway apnea provides any useful info for users...what are we supposed to do when it's reported except possibly scaring ourselves by worrying that we are having centrals? It uses FOT and makes me wonder if those who are challenged by the varying pressures of an APAP aren't likely to find FOT just as challenging even given these are microbursts...we're coming to understand just how sensitive the human body is to exceedingly subtle shifts and variations in sensory input. Could it be that the only real effective change to therapy with the new algorithm is that now the device will respond to the precursors of apneas when running >10 pressure? Does it not respond on the basis of precursors with increased pressure as it did before when running <10? Or, does it wait until the event is scored, then test to see if the airway is closed and then increase pressure if closed or not increase pressure if the airway is clear. This is completely opaque to me...does it or does it not respond to precursors? Precursors occur before collapse.

Muse-Inc,
The big advance that we are seeing (both from Respironics and Resmed) is that the data they are now reporting is a quantum leap in usefulness to an RT than the machines were reporting before.

The data that shows trends of ...

CSA events - OAI/UAI (not previously reported in Resp/Resmed cpaps/autos)
Flow Lims (not previously reported by Resmed off std machines)
Minute Ventilation (previously only off BiLevls machines)
Snore data (not previously reported by Resmed off std machines)

That data required a reliable way of determining open airway centrals & both Respironics & Resmed have tackled the issue & delivered results.

The real benefit of this data is being able to determine if the right machine & settings were provided to the user. CompSAS is a typical
condition where even sleep professionals had no idea that their patients were going from OSA to CSA. Sleep studies are not all that good at
picking up subtle signs. I am convinced that sleep clinics are improving in leaps & bounds & that the staff mean the best but the SDB condition
has been a hard horse to ride to awareness & expertise by everyone including the professionals.

The new levels of data should make everyone's job that much easier.

The old Resmed A10 target for criticism has gone with the S9. The difficulty in dealing with disparate power sources & cables got done away
with (everyone switching to power bricks). The mediocre data presentation from AutoScan & early versions of ResScan has now gone & users
can with 3.10 access the most intricate data by drilling down to viewing comprehensive data presented as seconds of time.

The above changes are not trivial & thankfully we have healthy competition between Respironics & Resmed that pushes both companies
to improve their products. But, both companies want to deliver more *useful* product to a bigger base of needy users. The need is there
the demand is there and the users (like us) are getting smarter & more savvy & more demanding of what we get.

I think the past 6 months are amongst the more significant in SDB advancement for us users & new patients.

Cheers

DSM

[ozij]

Ahh, I'm just pissed they put a smiley or frowny face for mask fit appropriate for a child...makes me think that's what they think of us users.

DSM: Hmmm, how do you know until you tried one ?

Watched the video of the guy using it...even with a lot of my brain back I'll need a cheat sheet at bedtime to remember which order I push, dial, push, dial, push, push to set the temp I want using that new climate control hose ! That is not a user friendly sequence.

DSM: dunno why a marketing video would be any sort of issue ? - the real issue is SDB ? (isn't it )

It's the complete missing the point of CPAP therapy that underlies the marketing videos that makes us all out to be complete dolts that pisses me off. Like I'm gonna use it more because they think it's mod, 21th century, whoopdedoo..sorry, getting carried away with my reaction to the videos.

Yes, that was my feeling too. Plus the fact they did not consider input from users, only from distributors when designing it -- the truth will out, and it came out very clearly in this marketing video.
I can imagine a marketing video telling distributors "We did the most thorough market research ever, we interviewed cpap users -- new and experienced, this machine is base on their input" Vide DeVilbiss. Or many other companies, who do market research with users.

The focus is not on effective therapy, instead it's focused on selling what they see as the WOW of the S9. Any perceived WOW factor is NOT gonna make me take to CPAP therapy...it sucks for most in the beginning regardless of the WOW. Not that I have any strong feelings about those videos or anything

The crassness of the focus on the WOW factor, the blatancy of "this is what will make this SELL" blew my mind.

..offers the biggest advances in sleep monitoring (for Resmed) & algorithms (in possibly 10+ years)

That's just it...I am not sure that this really is an advance even tho they think so (sounds like they're just copying Respironics in reporting more data). I am not sure that reporting clear airway apnea provides any useful info for users...what are we supposed to do when it's reported except possibly scaring ourselves by worrying that we are having centrals?

I believe you miss the point here, Muse. First of all, there's no reason on earth to be "scared " of central apnea. Second, knowing that you may be having clear airway apnea at higher pressures, and not having them at lower can help you set the correct pressure: very important.

Could it be that the only real effective change to therapy with the new algorithm is that now the device will respond to the precursors of apneas when running >10 pressure? Does it not respond on the basis of precursors with increased pressure as it did before when running <10? Or, does it wait until the event is scored, then test to see if the airway is closed and then increase pressure if closed or not increase pressure if the airway is clear. This is completely opaque to me...does it or does it not respond to precursors? Precursors occur before collapse.

I think the above is base on some cofusion about how the present, A10 algorithm works:

ResMed's A10 algorithm stops responding to apnea above 10, because it can't tell if it senses a clear airway apnea or an obstructive one.
Some people snore enough and have enough flow limitation to drive the pressure higher than 10 -- those are the "precursors" that the machine always responds to.
Some people - a smaller number -- don't snore, don't have flow limitation, but do have obstructive apneas needng pressure higher than 10. These people cannot benefit from the older ResMed algorithm, but may indeed benefit from the new one.
I don't consider that an attempt to immitate Respironics -- alll APAPs look for a way of avoiding the pitfall of supplying additional pressure in response to a clear airway apnea (i.e. "central apnea")-- that's critical to their proper functioning. I repeat, all autos need to make that distinction. ResMed's new algorithm is an attempt to improve their old one -- time will tell how good it is, and how many benefit from the change.

[Bob3000]

Any modern autoPAP machine you purchase today from a legit source is going to provide effective therapy. Yes, some people want or need exhalation pressure relief, or heated humidifiers or even heated hoses. Yes, better internal data analysis may help the RT better titrate us or detect problems. But the fundamentals are the same, so I think Resmed has done well by trying to design a device that is attractive (at least, by my tastes), provides instant feedback without having to transfer data to a computer, reduces rainout, etc. These are all bells and whistles, which is one of the few ways to differentiate an APAP product - the actual therapy, the reason we buy an APAP machine in the first place, is in essence a 'solved problem'. So it may be the case that the extra line running from mask to hose is a pain in the butt, the humidifier is hard to access, and so on, but still I applaud RESMED for trying to differentiate their product by adding bells and whistles and going for the 'wow' factor. Some companies like Devilbiss (my favorite) differentiate on price, others like RESMED differentiate on looks and features. That is the beauty of capitalism; we have choices.

That said, I thought those videos of the 'minds behind the S9' were silly and over-the-top, and if in fact the S9 is user-UNfriendly, it's never going to get a spot on my night stand.

-Bob3000

[dsm]

Ahh, I'm just pissed they put a smiley or frowny face for mask fit appropriate for a child...makes me think that's what they think of us users.

DSM: Hmmm, how do you know until you tried one ?

Watched the video of the guy using it...even with a lot of my brain back I'll need a cheat sheet at bedtime to remember which order I push, dial, push, dial, push, push to set the temp I want using that new climate control hose ! That is not a user friendly sequence.

DSM: dunno why a marketing video would be any sort of issue ? - the real issue is SDB ? (isn't it )

It's the complete missing the point of CPAP therapy that underlies the marketing videos that makes us all out to be complete dolts that pisses me off. Like I'm gonna use it more because they think it's mod, 21th century, whoopdedoo..sorry, getting carried away with my reaction to the videos.

Yes, that was my feeling too. Plus the fact they did not consider input from users, only from distributors when designing it -- the truth will out, and it came out very clearly in this marketing video.
I can imagine a marketing video telling distributors "We did the most thorough market research ever, we interviewed cpap users -- new and experienced, this machine is base on their input" Vide DeVilbiss. Or many other companies, who do market research with users.

The focus is not on effective therapy, instead it's focused on selling what they see as the WOW of the S9. Any perceived WOW factor is NOT gonna make me take to CPAP therapy...it sucks for most in the beginning regardless of the WOW. Not that I have any strong feelings about those videos or anything

The crassness of the focus on the WOW factor, the blatancy of "this is what will make this SELL" blew my mind.

<snip>

Ozij, Muse & others,

Did Resmed seek you out & request you watch their promo video ?
or, perhaps did you seek it out & insist on watching it

Point being, it isn't any big deal - but there is a suprising level of nit-picking taking place
.

Cheers DSM

[ozij]

Any modern autoPAP machine you purchase today from a legit source is going to provide effective therapy.

No way. Any modern autoPAP machine should be tried before you buy it, because algorithms are very different, and while they may be good for a majority of the population, the minority is different for each of them. If you fall within the small group Algorithm X can't treat well, then you need to try algorithm Y. Read TimbaLionGuy's posts about his switch from one to another as an example. You are fortunate to have done well with your DeVilbiss - it treats many people well. That does not mean it treats all people well.

- the actual therapy, the reason we buy an APAP machine in the first place, is in essence a 'solved problem'.

Not at all.