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Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:46 am
by billbolton
JohnBFisher wrote:The power port is one of those DC 12v power outlets you find in cars.
The 12V at-seat power outlets on commercial aircraft is usually an
EmPower socket, which is
NOT the same as the cigarette lighter style power outlet in automobiles.
An adapter is needed to provide a cigarette lighter style power outlet.
The EmPower outlets are also limited to about 75W of energy (maximum), which
may not be enough to power a xPAP machine if you are using pressure greater than ~12 cms H
20 at the cabin pressure equivalent-altitude of 2400 metres. Also, at-seat power is not guaranteed so you may end out without power in any case.
I have had several occasions across various airlines when at-seat power simply did not work, to the point where I have since elected to carry my own rechargeable battery pack for in-flight use, as it is a power source I control and therefore can trust be available when I need it.
Cheers,
Bill
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:23 pm
by JohnBFisher
billbolton wrote:... The 12V at-seat power outlets on commercial aircraft is usually an EmPower socket, which is NOT the same as the cigarette lighter style power outlet in automobiles. ...
Excellent point. However, in the case of American Airlines, this appears to not be the case:
http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInformatio ... nology.jsp
The American Airlines website specifically states:
Your seat may be equipped with a DC power outlet. American uses a "cigarette lighter" style outlet delivering 15 volts of direct current. ... Outlets may be used to operate ... other devices with a maximum 75-watt capacity. ... For detailed powerport locations by aircraft type, visit the Our Planes section on AA.com.
And the Our Planes section is off the "About Us" tab to the left of the AA.com home page. It is currently at:
http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/ourPlane ... vent=false
Still, if someone travels extensively and can use the power port it is wise to have an adapter as you noted. Also thanks for reminding me about Magellens mail order (where you found that adapter image). I use their power adpater products but had not thought of them as a possible source to help here.
billbolton wrote:... The EmPower outlets are also limited to about 75W of energy (maximum), which may not be enough to power a xPAP machine if you are using pressure greater than ~12 cms H20 at the cabin pressure equivalent-altitude of 2400 metres. Also, at-seat power is not guaranteed so you may end out without power in any case. ...
Excellent point. So, though "It depends!" answers whether it will work or not, you provide information to qualify it. If someone needs pressure greather than about 12cm H
20 at normal cabin pressure, then the power port is probably not a good option. Thank you. That will save me (and others) a good bit of time.
billbolton wrote:... I have had several occasions across various airlines when at-seat power simply did not work, to the point where I have since elected to carry my own rechargeable battery pack for in-flight use, as it is a power source I control and therefore can trust be available when I need it. ...
Great point. I am rapidly reaching the same conclusion. Another point in favor of the rechargeable battery pack is the following statement, which American Airlines makes (and probably every other airline has similar wording):
The use of powerports is at your own risk. American is not responsible for loss of data or damage to personal hardware or software.
Some things I just don't want to risk, and in my case my ASV unit is one of those.
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:32 pm
by billbolton
JohnBFisher wrote:American uses a "cigarette lighter" style outlet delivering 15 volts of direct current.
From the photo on the AA web site, it looks like AA has a unique
retrofitted at-seat power solution, rather than going with the standard
built-in at-seat power options.
The 15V DC aspect is not good news for direct connection to xPAP devices, as it is a 25% overvoltage from the nominal 12V DC input on most CPAP devices, which is beyond the normal input voltage
tolerance levels (usually about 10% to 15%) of nominal 12V DC devices. This means a user supplied voltage regulator of some sort would also be necessary to provide 12V DC to the xPAP device. Resmed has such a device (DC-12) but I'm not aware of what other xPAP suppliers do in this area.
It seems to me that AA have primarily provided these outlets for laptops, and entertainment devices, that come with appropriate
power packs which will perform an number of power conversion tasks, including voltage regulation.
In general, the current generation of commercial aircraft now come with 110V AC power outlets, rather than low voltage DC outlets, which are much easier to deal with for CPAP use.... though the caveats of no guarantee of power availability still apply!
Cheers,
Bill
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:47 pm
by desert rider
A few years ago I was flying overseas and felt pretty smug to have one of those adapters so my wife and I could watch DVDs. But it turned out that the power needs of my super-duper laptop with its 90w brick were just too much for the poor little plane. (It was state of the art at the time.)
I learned that I needed to reevaluate my dependence on power from others. Ask yourself, "what would a Klingon do?" Klingons grab power from others and then support themselves. As humans though, short of bringing a huge pigtail so you could "grab" the power from your surrounding neighbors, I think your best bet is to be self-reliant and BYO.
Flying to Asia and using cpap on-board
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:31 pm
by dtsm
Has anyone had experience with flying on Singapore Airlines, Cathay Airlines or Korean Airlines to Asia and using cpap during the long flight? I started cpap about 2 wks ago and often take the non-stop 15-17 hr flights in business class, where many of the newly configured planes have AC 115V, 400H power.
Has anyone used cpap on the non-stops SQ or CX flights? Luv to hear re how to get permission, etc.
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:05 pm
by el_zorro
If you are flying business class your chances are pretty good of them having a solution for you. If you call the airlines they should be able to help you, all of the airlines you mentioned cater to long-haul travellers and probably get CPAP requests more than you think. I have read that Quantas even has special seats in coach with adequate AC power for most CPAPs.
I have a 14 hour flight to Shanghai in a little over a week and I am going to see how I do sitting up with a neck pillow. My company has cut back on business class so I will be in steerage. I usually cant sleep deeply sitting up, just take a few naps. If I had business class I would call ahead and try to use it since you can lay flat up there. I would go without the humidifier for convenience.
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:05 pm
by dtsm
Thanks el_zorro for your kind reply. I'd be interested in real life experiences - kinda surprised given the prevalence of cpap users that very little has been written about flying/sleeping with cpap unit
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:36 pm
by bearded_two
I carry a Battery Geek CPAP battery that I have used while flying. It is essentially a small metal box with a cigarette lighter socket on the side.
BTW, it seems that ResMed S8 can operate from 400 Hz aircraft power; I don't believe that Respironics are spec'ed to operate from 400 Hz.
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:32 am
by billbolton
dtsm wrote:kinda surprised given the prevalence of cpap users that very little has been written about flying/sleeping with cpap unit
There has been
quite a bit written about it in CPAPtalk, if you care to search for it.
Cheers,
Bill
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:40 am
by dtsm
billbolton wrote:dtsm wrote:kinda surprised given the prevalence of cpap users that very little has been written about flying/sleeping with cpap unit
There has been
quite a bit written about it in CPAPtalk, if you care to search for it.
Cheers,
Bill
Bill
I did search, which is how I found this thread. There were multiple threads, but most dealt with carrying on the cpap unit. If I missed something, would certainly appreciate a 'lead'......in the meantime, I will search again.
Edit: found another thread and maybe moderator wants to merge the two:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45678&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... p&start=15 -- this one has the title: "Re: A CPAP that will work on long haul flights..."
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:55 pm
by veeteegee
Don't bother trying to fly overseas on Continental Airlines using your CPAP machine on board. Their customer service informed me that my AEIOMed Everest 3 CPAP machine with integrated battery cannot be used on the plane, since the machine "has not undergone RTCA Document (DO)-160 testing. This test would be performed by the manufacturer and would report if a device has
or has not been found to exceed the maximum level of radiated radio frequency interference in all modes of operation." Upon contacting AEIOMed, I was informed that they would not conduct such a test due to the expense. Additionally, you are not allowed to plug any CPAP machine into the on board AC power even in Business/First class...so if you fly Continental on long business flights like me, you are out of luck in the sleep department. It looks like Delta Airlines has the same policy.
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:25 pm
by dtsm
Thanks for the update....booo to CO and Delta.
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:58 am
by veeteegee
Information below might help you, as it has been very informative regarding to recent DOT and FAA rulings about the use of CPAPs on airlines. It looks like US-based airlines and the TSA are required to address CPAPs as a bona fide medical device that does not count as a carry-on; however, at least some US-based airlines seem to now be restricting their usage on board either on battery or AC power. My next overseas flight is in a couple of weeks and I am preparing to not be able to use my machine on board.
The following information has been helpful to me:
FAA website and search on "Subject: Department of Transportation (DOT) Final Rule “Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability in Air Travel” and the Use of Respiratory Assistive Devices on Aircraft."
and
The DOT website on "Air Travel of People with Disabilities Under the Amended Air Carrier Access Act Regulation"
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:39 am
by JohnBFisher
veeteegee wrote:... as it has been very informative regarding to recent DOT and FAA rulings about the use of CPAPs on airlines. ...
Thank you. This will help everyone. By the way, you might want to consider registering with the forum. But regardless, I personally appreciate you providing the input.
veeteegee wrote:... It looks like US-based airlines and the TSA are required to address CPAPs as a bona fide medical device that does not count as a carry-on; however, at least some US-based airlines seem to now be restricting their usage on board either on battery or AC power. ...
I can confirm that American Airlines requires calling their disability services department AHEAD of the flight. They will work with the manufacturer of the equipment to see if it will work. However, few of the xPAP unit manufacturers have gone through the appropriate testing.
veeteegee wrote:... My next overseas flight is in a couple of weeks and I am preparing to not be able to use my machine on board. ...
A wise choice. As I understand it, most of these units are not validated. Part of the problem (as I understand it) is that until very recently the standards and process for testing and certification were not defined.
veeteegee wrote:... The following information has been helpful to me:
FAA website and search on "Subject: Department of Transportation (DOT) Final Rule “Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability in Air Travel” and the Use of Respiratory Assistive Devices on Aircraft."
and
The DOT website on "Air Travel of People with Disabilities Under the Amended Air Carrier Access Act Regulation" ...
I thought I would add the URL:
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation ... O09006.pdf
THough I could not find the second document, the following FAQ document is of interest:
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/FAQ_5_13_09.doc
There are three questions (and their answers) that are of interest for most of us in the forum:
52. May a carrier refuse to allow a passenger to use on the aircraft any respirator, ventilator, CPAP machine or FAA-approved POC that does not have a manufacturer’s label indicating compliance with the standards of RTCA/DO-160 (current edition) or other applicable FAA or foreign government requirements for medical portable electronic devices?
Answer: Yes. Carriers may refuse to allow a passenger to use a respirator, ventilator, CPAP machine or FAA approved POC onboard the aircraft if the proper manufacturer’s labeling is not present on the device. However, we would encourage carriers to voluntarily conduct the necessary tests on a particular respirator, ventilator or CPAP machine model that is not labeled, in order to determine its compliance with the applicable safety standards and allow passengers to use those devices found to be safe on its aircraft. We also encourage carriers to allow the use of POCs on aircraft in accordance with the guidance contained in FAA Information for Operators InFO 090POC (May 1, 2009) at
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation ... o09006.pdf. If the manufacturer has already tested the device and it meets the RTCA standard, despite the device not being labeled, the carrier may voluntarily accept the device for use in the aircraft cabin without performing additional tests.
53. May a carrier refuse to allow a passenger to stow on the aircraft any respirator, ventilator, CPAP machine or FAA-approved POC that does not have a manufacturer’s label indicating compliance with the standards of RTCA/DO-160 (current edition) or other applicable FAA or non-U.S. government requirements for medical portable electronic devices?
Answer: No. Carriers must allow passengers to carry a respirator, ventilator, CPAP machine or FAA-approved POC onboard aircraft, subject to applicable safety requirements, even if the device may not be used onboard the aircraft.
54. When the required manufacturer’s label is not present on a ventilator, respirator,
CPAP machine or FAA-approved POC, what safety requirements apply to the stowage of the device on the aircraft?
Answer: To be accepted for stowage on an aircraft, a ventilator, respirator, CPAP machine or FAA-approved POC that does not have the required manufacturer’s label on the device must comply with FAA size and weight limits and have the battery removed, packaged, and protected from short circuit and physical damage in accordance with the FAA’s Special Federal Aviation Regulation (SFAR) 106, Section 3 (b)(6).
Re: flying in airplane with cpap
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:56 am
by BlackSpinner
All of the above applies only to US airlines or foreign airlines in the US.
It doesn't necessarily apply to foreign airlines when outside of the US.
For example:
3. May a carrier refuse to allow a passenger to stow on the aircraft any respirator, ventilator, CPAP machine or FAA-approved POC that does not have a manufacturer’s label indicating compliance with the standards of RTCA/DO-160 (current edition) or other applicable FAA or non-U.S. government requirements for medical portable electronic devices?
Answer: No. Carriers must allow passengers to carry a respirator, ventilator, CPAP machine or FAA-approved POC onboard aircraft, subject to applicable safety requirements, even if the device may not be used onboard the aircraft.
Does not apply to AirCanada in Canada.