Product Challenge Chinstraps Fail To Please CPAP Users

[johnnygoodman]

Howdy CPAPtalkers,

Results from the CPAPtalk.com Chinstrap Product Challenge are in and CPAP users are not pleased. Full results and comments are available here:

http://chinstrap-sullivan-premium.cpaptalk.com

While the Respironics Premium was prefered by nearly a 2 to 1 margin over the Resmed Sullivan, participant comments indicate that both products have serious design flaws. These flaws have a direct, negative impact of the effectiveness of CPAP therapy. The quality of chinstraps available to CPAP users must improve. Manufacturers should closely follow user feedback in order to develop Chinstraps that improve the lives of CPAP users.

Product Challenge participant comments upheld the same high standard of user feedback and critical thinking that CPAPtalk threads offer daily. Thank you to all who took their time and effort to enroll or participate in this challenge. Here are two quick Product Challenge comments that nail it:

1. "The bulk provides awesome support for your chin but sometimes feels like you are wearing a ski mask." -John on the Premium Chinstrap

2. "I would wake up in the middle of the night with the top of the strap in front of where it was supposed to be and near the front of my head." -Frank on the Sullivan Chinstrap

Mouth leak is a reoccuring complaint on CPAPtalk threads. Here is a quote that sums up the problem:

"I'd much prefer to stick with my LT, but if I can't find a chinstrap that'll do the job, I'll have to bite the bullet and find something else. I've tried taping, but it irritates my skin..." -Bleeping Beauty on a recent nasal pillow thread.

If a CPAP user can not tolerate full face masks and their mouth opens during sleep, it becomes nearly impossible to receive effective therapy. In response, some resort to home brewed solutions, mouth taping or other measures; they are desperate for restorative sleep and will do what they must to get it when no traditional alternative remain. An effective chinstrap could be a blessing to many who currently struggle with mouth leak.

The results of Product Challenge 9 confirmed our suspicion that a suitable chinstrap has yet to be created. The Respironics Premium was too bulky and its fabric too heavy. The Resmed Sullivan fabric is lighter, but does not stay in place properly. This challenge has made clear what CPAP users want in a Chinstrap, here is the list of desired features:

• Made of light and breathable material

• Made of material that doesn't break down after a few months

• Push the jaw "up" instead of "back" or "in"

• Stays in place all night

• Easy on and off in the dark

As industry leading chinstraps have disappointed Product Challenge 9 participants, our sister website CPAP.com is extending the challenge to aspiring sellers: build a better Chinstrap and will promote and support it. Keep in mind that user feedback is the key indicator of product quality and truly superior chinstraps are proven only by Product Challenges. If you have a Chinstrap that is up to the challenge, contact katherine.fulmer@cpaptalk.com.

Johnny

[SleepGuy]

Howdy CPAPtalkers,

The results of Product Challenge 9 confirmed our suspicion that a suitable chinstrap has yet to be created. The Respironics Premium was too bulky and its fabric too heavy. The Resmed Sullivan fabric is lighter, but does not stay in place properly. This challenge has made clear what CPAP users want in a Chinstrap, here is the list of desired features:

• Made of light and breathable material

• Made of material that doesn't break down after a few months

• Push the jaw "up" instead of "back" or "in"

• Stays in place all night

• Easy on and off in the dark

As industry leading chinstraps have disappointed Product Challenge 9 participants, our sister website CPAP.com is extending the challenge to aspiring sellers: build a better Chinstrap and will promote and support it. Keep in mind that user feedback is the key indicator of product quality and truly superior chinstraps are proven only by Product Challenges. If you have a Chinstrap that is up to the challenge, contact katherine.fulmer@cpaptalk.com.

Johnny

Johnny, I would be happy to take you up on this offer. The papCAP has received a lot of attention on the forum here and I invite you to read any of the hundreds of posts on the product (just search pap cap or papcap).

*It is made of 100% Kona Cotton material, light and breathable. Cotton delivers tension right where it's needed.
*The chinstrap gently closes the jaw and simultaneously pushes up the fleshy part of the chin upwards about 2cm, using the bottom lip to actually seal the airway escape through the mouth. Simply closing the jaw is not sufficient since air easily leaks through the teeth.
*It doesn't break down after a few months. It's made using 4-inch medical grade Velstretch product from Velcro. It's the same stuff used for a variety of medical applications (especially splints, casts, etc.).
*It pushes the jaw gently forward, not back (a feature that Snoredog specifically noted in several posts--he really liked this product, though he did not believe in chinstraps generally--these posts are still on the boards).
*It is highly adjustable both as to tension and orientation, since the chinstrap completely detaches on both sides. Patients can obtain the ideal amount of tension and angle to suit individual needs and anatomy.
*The cotton chinstrap does not deform when under tension. Rather, it delivers tension right where it is supposed to be delivered--to the bottom of the chin. Other materials themselves deform under tension, resulting in, well, failure to deliver results.
*It is stable and stays in place all night because it does not rely on yet more straps around the cranium. Instead, it mounts to a very stable, spherical-shaped cotton platform that distributes tension evenly and comfortably into the shape of the cranium.
*It takes two seconds to remove and replace.

I'd be happy to provide free product for a Product Challenge (chinstrap mode only).

[tattooyu]

Johnny,

Please consider a challenge using the PapCap. I have used something similar to the Sullivan but haven't looked back since I've gotten the PapCAP. I have absolutely no pain or soreness when I wake up and my leak rates are 0.00 L/s every night. It really is very comfortable, light but durable.

When I saw there was a chinstrap challenge, I couldn't believe it wasn't a choice!

I'd buy another one in a heartbeat if mine were to ever get lost or damaged. Just my $0.02.

[Bert_Mathews]

Johnny;
I think you are MISSING an OPPORTUNITY on NOT including the PapCap in your CHALLENGE Plus SleeoGuy is willing to offer Supply's.............
I have been using the PapCap back to version 1 and even made suggestions on Improvements. It works better than four other models I personally have tried, It would be GREAT to have feedback from OTHERS on the PapCap. Having Pictures included how others us it as total headgear WOULD Impress YOU and Others HOW GOOD this Product can be!
I have been a CUSTOMER of CPAP.com & the Auction for a couple years and always thought YOU had the widest selection and all your customer service personal knew about all the products on the market with an IDEA if the produce was Good / Bad or even able to give + or - on features. NOW that you have the CHALLENGE department I was under the opinion it was for YOUR/employees Knowledge as much as being a SERVICE to users of the website.

THANK YOU for excepting my views......& Hope you change your mind ?

[carbonman]

Johnny, test the Papcap.
I used the Papcap w/chinstrap when I first started cpap therapy.
It was instrumental in my success w/the nasal pillows that I started with.

It is comfortable and easy to put on every night.
It does not pull your jaw backwards and is easy to adjust every night.
It is so much more comfortable than the neoprene straps.

It is also a real made in America product.
Created one at a time on state of the art equipment,
by talented, skilled, American hands,
who lost their job "off shore".

This is a fine product that I consider essential cpap equipment.
I have three and use it every night.

There is NO competition for this product.

[sleepyred]

Include the PapCap in your next challenge! It is by far the best chin strap/headgear combo I have ever used. I am a mouth breather and use a Mirage Activa. I have tried at least 4 different chin straps, have taped, and used poligrip strips and was not satisfied with any of them until......the PapCap!

The ONE and ONLY solution for me has been the papcap - I was impressed with the 1st papcap and it solved my mouth breathing issues WITHOUT bothering my TMJ at all.

Now that I am using the Papcap II - I do not need a headgear! I just put it on at night - chin strap headgear in one! No mouth breathing, no extra pressure whatsoever on my chin or jaw. It has also made it much easier to control leaks with my mask.

The material it is made out of is of superior quality. Kudos to SleepGuy who has worked and developed such a fine product!

I did not even apply to participate in the chin strap challenge - used them both and they are now in the trash.

[DreamDiver]

Johnny,

First I want to thank you for providing the CPAPtalk bulletin board. This has been a lifesaver for so many of us.

[EDIT - I've edited my reply because it's way off topic and a bit harsh for posterity. The gist of what I have to say is summarized below. Thanks for understanding.]

The problem of effectiveness stems not only from poor chin strap design, but from poor mask and mask strap design. The fact that a resolution is not available in one simple, elegant solution poses the main reason why people drop out of CPAP therapy. Chin straps would be entirely unnecessary if the mask designers would make a mask and mask strapping system that didn't require an additional chin strap in the first place.

The PAPcap is superior. It fits all of your requirements listed above when worn as the replacement mask strap for masks like the UMFF. It's cotton, so it breathes. It's washable, regardless of what the product specs say. I just air-dry the chin-strap part to keep the velcro stretchy. It generally prevents mask torque - thus most leaks - and stays put all night, regardless of how you toss or turn. It doesn't push your chin back. It's relatively easy to put on in the dark.

Even if you prefer a nasal mask or a hybrid and wear the PAPcap as a chin strap, it's still football-fields ahead in terms of stability and mask torque reduction, breatheability and comfort. I have tried the PAPcap with nasal, hybrid and full face masks, so I know whereof I speak. I have only tried one other chin strap and have refused to try others until I saw the PAPcap because I knew their designs would likely prove equally ineffective. PAPcap is a simple elegant response that stands far above the rest of the chin strap or replacement mask strap solutions. There is no competition.

[hrc54]

Johnny-

Use the Pap-Cap. I love mine & have tried the rest.

Bob

[krousseau]

DO ANOTHER CHALLENGE WITH THE PAPCAP. I was disappointed that you didn't include the PAPCap. The chinstrap works. I left behind one of my BiPAP power cables on a trip and could not get hold of a replacement. I got by and sleeping well-using a boil and bite mouthpiece and the PAPCap for 4 nights; also slept upright. Please note I am not suggesting that the mouthpiece and cap be used as a substitute of XPAP. It worked in an"emergency situation" for a short time.
It also is an effective headgear replacement. With a couple tucks to accomodate my small head and adding another velcro strip to the chinstrap part of the cap (and using a variety of 3-6 inch velcro strips on the masks) I have used it successfully with the following masks; Respironics OptiLife, Resmed Activa (in spite of the mask being basically too big for me to begin with), & the Fisher-Paykel mask similar to the Opti. I even dragged out my oldies Respironics classic, FP 40_ ?? something petite, Bravo, and Hybrid. Although I didn't actually sleep with them on as parts of them are missing; I was able to make them comfortably secure with a variety of velcro strips.

[mindy]

• Made of light and breathable material

• Made of material that doesn't break down after a few months

• Push the jaw "up" instead of "back" or "in"

• Stays in place all night

• Easy on and off in the dark

Johnny

Hi Johnny,

I, too, like the PapCap. IMHO, it is light and breathable, sturdy and is gentle on the jaw. When I use mine with the velcro and NAII, it's not quite as easy on and off in the dark, but if not using the velcro straps, it's easy. It's not perfect, but it's better than anything else I've found.

Mindy

[rodpetersen]

Who makes the papcap? I would like to add this to my inventory.

[SleepGuy]

Who makes the papcap? I would like to add this to my inventory.

That would be me and it's a fantastic product. The headgear replacement potential applications, in addition to serving as an effective chinstrap, make it just that much better. My contact information is below.

Bret aka SleepGuy

[Dennisla]

Who makes the papcap? I would like to add this to my inventory.

That would be me and it's a fantastic product. The headgear replacement potential applications, in addition to serving as an effective chinstrap, make it just that much better. My contact information is below.

Bret aka SleepGuy

The main reason I use the Swift LT nasal pillow system is that it leaves you feeling that you have minimum gear on your head.
I start feeling claustrophobic with all these head gear contraptions companies have designed for us to use.
It looks from the picture that putting this pap-cap on would make me feel more confined as I did wearing a full face mask.
Not to mention that it is now summer and having all that on your head when it's hot and sticky does not look like fun.
Don't get me wrong I am not knocking your product, I am just challenging it.
Once I tried using the waist band from an athletic strap, it worked better than all commercial straps I've tried but it kept slipping off.
Right now I use tape and would love to get away from it. So would the skin around my mouth.

-Dennis

[SleepGuy]

Dennis, thanks for your challenging feedback. You've nailed the #1 perception of the papCAP just based on "how it looks."

I believe that actual experience is quite the opposite, believe it or not (including for Swift users). We're one year+ selling the papCAP and I have yet to see any feedback or issues relating to claustrophobia, weight, heat, or anything like that (there were issues regarding fit on smaller and larger size heads, as well as the tendency to "pull down" a bit in the front during the night, but design changes seem to have resolved these issues).

In any event, this is exactly what a Product Trial is all about and I welcome participants to evaluate their experiences with the product as compared to to any other on the market!

[BleepingBeauty]

I would LOVE to try the papCAP. The people on this site who use it seem to rave about it, so I do hope the Challenge ensues (and, of course, that I'm able to participate in it).

I've used four different chinstraps since November, and none of them does an adequate job of keeping my mouth closed when I sleep. My recent sleep study was proof enough for me, when the tech woke me several times because of mouth leaks.

I tried taping, but my skin doesn't appreciate that. I've read about the Poligrip strips, and that doesn't sound very appealing, from others' experiences noted here. I really don't like the thought of my lips being stuck together. One night when I was taping over my mouth, I needed to cough; I looked and felt like Dizzy Gillespie... (That was NOT fun! The blowfish experience is not for me.)

I use the Swift LT, and I LOVE the mask. I'd really hate to have to wear a FFM just because I can't find a good chinstrap that does what it's supposed to do.

Thanks for making the offer, SleepGuy. I hope we see your product in the Challenge.