Poll: Breastfed/Bottlefed and OSA - Please vote ...

[nobody]

I wonder if animals can have sleep apnea?

I think one of my dogs does. She will wake up suddenly gasping and gasping. It sounds awful. And, no, she's not a bulldog. She's a husky with a large straight muzzle.

[debtheveg]

There seems to be many new people joining who may not have seen this discussion, so thought I'd bring it back so those who haven't yet voted may do so.

[roster]

Good Deb. We should keep the thread alive. I haven't reached any conclusions yet. Of course breastfeeding is excellent for many reasons independent of OSA.

[roster]

Ohio woman cited for breastfeeding while driving


Police in Ohio say a woman has been charged with child endangering after another motorist reported she was both breast-feeding a youngster and talking on a phone while driving.

Police in the Dayton suburb of Kettering say the caller told them he saw the woman Thursday.

Officer Michael Burke says authorities used a license plate number to track down 39-year-old Genine Compton.

He said the woman told officers she was breast-feeding and wouldn't let her child go hungry.

Burke said the legal concern is that Compton had a child in her lap while driving, not that she was breast-feeding in public.

He said the child was under 2 years old.

Police say the woman faces up to 180 days in jail and a $1,800 fine if convicted of the misdemeanor.

Source: Associated Press

http://www.examiner.com/x-2361-Houston- ... le-driving

That's dangerous! I almost wrecked trying to stay in the lane beside her.

[LinkC]

I almost wrecked trying to stay in the lane beside her.

Beside her??? I thought it said "in her lap"...

[debtheveg]

Just shows how clever we females are at multi-tasking!!!

[roster]

Hey debtheveg. I hope you are still following this thread. Here is something of interest.

Nutritional Lessons From Africa
September 19, 2009
I saw a patient today who works for the US Peace Corps in Batswana. When I mentioned how in indigenous cultures people had nice broad jaws with nicely aligned super bright teeth with no cavities, he noted excitedly that in the area where he worked, this was definitely the case. In fact, he was jealous of the natives’ bright beautiful smiles.

Traditional cultures in certain parts of the world practice contraception by breast-feeding. Most doctors will tell you that breast-feeding is not a reliable form of birth control. However, the way a woman breast-feeds is vastly different in the developed areas versus underdeveloped parts of Africa.


In the US, most women who breast-feed on demand begin to taper off to intermittent feedings after a few months or at most 1-2 years, either supplementing with solid foods, or pumping and giving the milk through a bottle. I’ve written about how bottle-feeding is thought to aggravate dental crowding and malocclusion.


In certain parts of Africa (such as in Batswana), women breast-feed on demand, with the child strapped in slings to the mother’s chest, feeding on demand until he or she becomes too heavy or becomes more independent. Typically, this lasts about 2-3 years. My patient confirmed that women would typically have 3-4 children evenly spaced over a span of 10-12 years. Repeated, short bursts of breast-feeding promotes prolactin release, which is an effective form of contraception. In developed countries, the interval between feedings lengthen over the first year, increasing the odds that pregnancy may occur.


He also noted that for the most part, the natives are very healthy, with few stresses, and they generally eat off the land, without too much processed foods or refined sugars. He even feels stronger and healthier when he lives and eats there. The main health problems that he sees are mainly infectious: malaria and HIV.


Dr. Brian Palmer, a dentist that has spent his entire career researching the link between bottle-feeding and obstructive sleep apnea, has stated that in some areas of the world, people can’t afford infant formula, let alone regular food. The only source of nutrition for infants and toddlers is breast milk. Notice that despite the fact that the children are stick thin, they all have nice smiles and bright teeth.


Compare this with pictures of young children (in Dr. Weston Price’s book) who eat lots of sweets and processed foods—you’ll see crooked, stained teeth with lots of cavities, along with narrowed jaws and faces.


Take note of a native rural African’s jaw structure, and compare the facial width and jaw structures against multiple generation African-American faces. It’s a pretty stark difference.

http://doctorstevenpark.com/nutritional ... rom-africa

Best regards,

[drj130]

According to my mother, I was breast fed. I have our lovely friend OSA. My sisters don't have OSA and I'm not sure how they were fed.

[socknitster]

Very, very interesting article, Rooster!

The world-wide average time for breastfeeding is until age 4. That means the range is from 3 to 7. As Americans we do far, far less. Part of the problem is knowledge. As someone who has breastfed two children for extended periods of time, I can attest that issues and problems come up that are NOT addressed in the current breastfeeding literature. La leche league likes to pretend that these issues don't exist, perhaps as a way of making it seem like everything about breastfeeding is good. But that backfires when women have problems that they can't find an answer to and then just give up! I had a problem with both boys that is poorly understood and virtually unacknowledged--I made too much milk. Both boys struggled in the early months with this before I could get it under control. It sure would have been nice if I had had the knowlege of a grandmother from 200-300 years ago to tell me how to cope. Luckily for me and my kids, I am doggedly persistent.

I breastfed my oldest for 1 year and my youngest is currently 15 months and is still nursing. I'm not sure when we will stop. I had to stop with my first child because the doctor told me I had to because I needed to take a medication that wasn't safe for breastfeeding. Seems like in the last 5 years, more knowlege about that has come to light and women aren't told to do that as much any more.

Anyway, breastfeeding actually gets easier with time and practice and except for the little blip when they get their first teeth, should be virtually painless. It should be a relaxing and bonding time with the child. It is also a way for mom to get her figure back quickly after giving birth. With both boys I was back to my pre-pregnancy weight by 6 weeks.

Anyway, here's hoping that we will return more and more to this entirely natural and wonderful experience in the future.

[roster]

[quote="socknitster"]Very, very interesting article, Rooster!

The world-wide average time for breastfeeding is until age 4. .........quote]

Sockie,

Do you know the statistics on breastfeeding in China? In another article Dr. Park claims that sleep apnea prevalency in China is 24%. The Chinese population is slim but their jaws are short and narrow.

Jaw development is affecting by the diet in the years beyond breastfeeding. If the diet requires much chewing during adolescence, the jaw skeleton will develop more depth and width. In the U.S. we have a diet that allows us to consume large amounts of calories with hardly any chewing, thus less jaw development.

Regards,

[Daffney_Gillfin]

Jaw development is affecting by the diet in the years beyond breastfeeding. If the diet requires much chewing during adolescence, the jaw skeleton will develop more depth and width. In the U.S. we have a diet that allows us to consume large amounts of calories with hardly any chewing, thus less jaw development.

Yes, chewing meat is important for jaw development.

Back on the breastfeeding/OSA connection, I once had a video that showed the action inside of a nursing baby's mouth, but I still can't find it. I did run across this link in my emails. http://www.llli.org/ba/Feb99.html I don't think it has already been mentioned even though Brian Palmer has been.

[socknitster]

Roostie,

I'm uncertain of the amount of breastfeeding in China. It would probably depend on the area. The poorer, more countrified areas probably still mostly breastfeed. But the industrialized areas probably feed formula. The whole debacle about the melamine in the milk was in China after all, so there must be a lot of formula being fed there currently. This is probably new as China is relatively new to modern industry.

I disagree that the Asian phenotype has a small or narrow jaw. Asians are petite, but my estimation is that their jaws are proportionately larger than the average American.

Now, the jaw development that you speak of post-weaning makes total sense to me. But I think it has less to do with meat, but just tough food in general. Think of stone-ground, unleavened bread. Think lots of raw fruit and veggies. Think of eating all the parts of an animal you killed--not just the tender, juicy bits. This is the way man was built to eat.

I myself was raised on white bread, potatoes and pot-roasts, canned soups, hot dogs and the occasional canned veg. We very rarely ate anything that looked like it grew out of the ground or went bounding past. No surprise that my jaw is completely underdeveloped. I have little chin to speak of and my lower jaw didn't even make all the teeth it was supposed to! I still have one of my baby molars (because the adult tooth never formed) and my bottom wisdom teeth had to be cut out of my jaw because they were in there in a semi-upright, sideways position and could never have come in. No room. I never even grew wisdom teeth on top.

Well, I feel better about my son's diet now. He eats an apple every day and lots of whole grain stuff and raw veg. Hopefully he will get plenty of jaw action. I'm planning on taking him to an orthodontist when he is around 11 to talk about putting in expanders (I have been talking to the dentist about this and he thinks I'm crazy to be worrying about this already!). I want to make sure his jaw is well-developed. It is my understanding that these expanders can be put in to do the job, braces or no.

Love this theoretical stuff. The world is an amazing place!

I still wouldn't completely discount the contribution that breastfeeding might have--while it might be small, it still could be significant. If you watch their little jaws go while they nurse, there is some serious working out going on. My son gets impatient when the milk takes a minute to let down and whines while he sucks--it is pretty comical.

[roster]

........
Now, the jaw development that you speak of post-weaning makes total sense to me. But I think it has less to do with meat, but just tough food in general. .........

I read an article some time ago about rural areas of Kentucky. A guy studied the dental records and recorded what he found on jaw size. In one generation jaws became considerably smaller. This correlated to a change in diet.

It was stated that the traditional diet included lots of salt pork and cornmeal fried hard in a frying pan. These items took much chewing to consume enough calories.

Then grocery stores began to open and the residents ate mostly from what they bought at the grocery store. The succeeding generations exhibited smaller jaws.

The article did not say, but I wonder if more babies were bottlefed.

[dels]

I am all for breastfeeding, was breast fed and breastfed my child for ten months. However the other weekend we were eating out and there was a relatively new mother breast feeding, no covering up of any sort, with the baby latching on and off and her nipples dripping milk , and the mother made what so ever no attempt to cover her self a little. Its the freaking dinner table and your out in public, I found it rude.

I also disagree that all mother's breast fed before the bottle. This is simply not true. Wet nurses were routinely hired to breast feed other mothers children, especially mothers of a higher class socio economically. My greatgrandmother routinely fed other peoples babies when the mothers came down ill, it was the only way back then, she was always lactating, 18 children she had . She also got paid to feed other peoples babies by the very rich. Wet nurses are still used to this day for that matter.

and as a breastfed person, I still am on BIPAP, and my bottle fed sister has no problems! ( She was bottle fed as my mother became ill when she deliverd her)

[debtheveg]

Hi Rooster,

Thanks for the article. It's all very interesting. I have previously corresponded with Dr. Brian Palmer. The more theories and research done on the subject, the better. Even if it can't help us, then maybe down the track for our grandchildren. The more breastfeeding is encouraged and accepted as the norm, the better it will be all round, for so many reasons.

Of course, there will be those who say they were breastfed and developed osa anyway and those who were bottlefed with no osa. That would happen with any study into anything. It would be unlikely to achieve 100%, clear cut defining answers to this, however, with a big enough poll, a pattern could emerge.

I'm still persevering with my mandibular device with a little improvement. Haven't yet tried the didgeridoo but will when I'm not quite so tired. Still have ongoing insomnia but we'll get there one day!

My brain must be functioning better than I thought as I had to work out how to log back in. Never had to deal with 'cookies' before.

Thanks,

Deborah