Humidifier ran out of water? M series pro

[Guest]

So if I understand this right, someone recommended using the attached m series humidifier AND the HC-150? Doesn't that throw the humidity settings crazy? How would you control rain out and such with two humidifiers running at the same time?

[carbonman]

And I got the feeling the med supply house dosnt care if the mask fits or not as long as they are getting there check from my insurance company. I cant tape my mouth shut like you have suggested. I would not be comfortable like that. I have had my CPAP since Friday and Im trying to figure this all out but Im not happy with the way this is going and I really dont have 200 bucks to slap down on a new mask.

Andy, much of this process is up to each person.

I didn't think I could tape either, so I glued, w/Polident strips.
Heard of that technique, yet.
I am a mouth breather, too.
I MADE the Polident strips work for a month.....then, I couldn't
take it anymore.

My first full face mask came from cpap.com.
It was a Quattro large. It was a disaster.....way to big.
I couldn't afford $200 for masks, either...so I figured out how
to use cpapauction. Much cheaper.
6 masks later, I have it figured out.

I have been very successful w/my therapy....BUT....it has not been easy.
I struggled at many places along the road.
I endured sores and blisters in/on the nares.
I endured the glued lips w/chin straps.
I endured the bruised and bloody nose bridge, getting used to a ffm.

When I didn't know what I was doing, I made a SWAG(Scientific Wild @$$ Guess).
If something didn't work, I asked questions or tried something else.

It did not happen over night for me.
I did not depend on the DME, doc or sleep ctr. to help me.
I learned it here or I learned on my own.

Don't know how else to say this......it's up to you.

It's your life.
It's my life.

PS I'm a wood burner, too. Have been for 30yrs. Started when I lived in Alaska.
Wood, it heats you 2 or 3 times. Nothing like a wood stove on a cold day.

[jasper]

I had the same experience with my sleep center. They just shrugged when I talked about mouth breathing.  I explained that a chin strap didn't work  and even mentioned that I tried taping.  They looked a bit askance, and again shrugged.  I finally tried several full face masks, and any type that rested on the bridge of my nose gave me terrible open sores.  I'm now happily using the Hybrid (see it on cpap.com), and my AHI's are finally way down.  Bought it out of my own pocket and glad I did.

Regarding the usage of water issue, sorry Respironics, in all due respect, there is NO WAY I could ever get 8 hours at a setting of 5.   About as likely as expecting to ever see the highway MPG they advertise for your car.  I keep mine at 2, and that sees me through the night with minimal dryness.  I do live in a relatively humid area.

As far as the issue of running the HH dry, I've done it once or twice by forgetting to fill it at night - (duh) as they say.  No fire , but I did get a definite burnt odor.  Better to keep water in it.

As far as what a chinstrap is, look on cpap.com for a good selection and pictures:

https://www.cpap.com/simple-find-cpap-p ... traps.html

[Andy99]

I had the same experience with my sleep center. They just shrugged when I talked about mouth breathing.  I explained that a chin strap didn't work  and even mentioned that I tried taping.  They looked a bit askance, and again shrugged.  I finally tried several full face masks, and any type that rested on the bridge of my nose gave me terrible open sores.  I'm now happily using the Hybrid (see it on cpap.com), and my AHI's are finally way down.  Bought it out of my own pocket and glad I did.

Regarding the usage of water issue, sorry Respironics, in all due respect, there is NO WAY I could ever get 8 hours at a setting of 5.   About as likely as expecting to ever see the highway MPG they advertise for your car.  I keep mine at 2, and that sees me through the night with minimal dryness.  I do live in a relatively humid area.

As far as the issue of running the HH dry, I've done it once or twice by forgetting to fill it at night - (duh) as they say.  No fire , but I did get a definite burnt odor.  Better to keep water in it.

As far as what a chinstrap is, look on cpap.com for a good selection and pictures:

https://www.cpap.com/simple-find-cpap-p ... traps.html

not to sound stupid but...
Whats an AHI?

[DreamStalker]

I had the same experience with my sleep center. They just shrugged when I talked about mouth breathing.  I explained that a chin strap didn't work  and even mentioned that I tried taping.  They looked a bit askance, and again shrugged.  I finally tried several full face masks, and any type that rested on the bridge of my nose gave me terrible open sores.  I'm now happily using the Hybrid (see it on cpap.com), and my AHI's are finally way down.  Bought it out of my own pocket and glad I did.

Regarding the usage of water issue, sorry Respironics, in all due respect, there is NO WAY I could ever get 8 hours at a setting of 5.   About as likely as expecting to ever see the highway MPG they advertise for your car.  I keep mine at 2, and that sees me through the night with minimal dryness.  I do live in a relatively humid area.

As far as the issue of running the HH dry, I've done it once or twice by forgetting to fill it at night - (duh) as they say.  No fire , but I did get a definite burnt odor.  Better to keep water in it.

As far as what a chinstrap is, look on cpap.com for a good selection and pictures:

https://www.cpap.com/simple-find-cpap-p ... traps.html

not to sound stupid but...
Whats an AHI?

Snoredog posted a list of definitions here ...

viewtopic/t36505/viewtopic.php?p=315913#p315913

[plr66]

Andy, a chin strap will not prevent you from mouth breathing. Clench your teeth, and whether asleep or awake, you can clearly continue to exhale through your mouth, and the chin strap only functions to try to hold your jaw from dropping open. If you feel you cannot do mouth taping or sealing, then you need a full face mask or a hybrid mask at this point.

Edited because I omitted "hybrid" option.

[mindy]

You keep telling me that I need to fix that problem and I agree with you but dont know how to go about it. ...I cant tape my mouth shut like you have suggested. I would not be comfortable like that. I dont know what a chin strap is I dont think I got one with my mask. I am completely in the dark and Im trying to get as much information as I can. I will go back to the DR and explain my concerns but I need to get as much info as I can before I go to him to make sure I get what I need to make this work. I have had my CPAP since Friday and Im trying to figure this all out but Im not happy with the way this is going and I really dont have 200 bucks to slap down on a new mask. I dont know what to do but an appointment with my ent is going to be my next step to explain why im unhappy.

Andy,

It sounds to me like you're in the typical starting off problems with these things. Chin-up -- it will get better as you go along. As far as a chin strap, here's a link to what our sponsor sells:

https://www.cpap.com/simple-find-cpap-p ... traps.html

I tried polident strips and they hurt my lips too much. After some experimentation, I usually use one or two panty hose legs to stabilize the mask along with a chinstrap (Tiara). It works for me. If you have insurance, they usually cover 2 chinstraps per year.

Mindy

[CRS]

Andy,

My suggestion would be to call your ENT's office and tell them what is going on. When you told the sleep center that you are a mouth breather, they should have given you the option of a full face mask - it sounds like that is what you need. If you are new to CPAP, the med supply place should allow you to exchange it for another type. If they balk at this, I would put them on the phone with the ENT's office and let them straighten it out.

Also, I would insist on trying a couple of different types of full face masks WHILE I was at the med supply place; they should have someone there (hopefully a respiratory therapist) who can assist you with finding one that works best for you. Many people like the Resmed Ultra Mirage and Mirage Quattro; some people (like myself) find that they can't keep those from leaking during the night and do better with a hybrid-style mask. You might want to try out both types and see which one works best for you. If you take your mask home and find that after a couple of weeks it isn't working for you, call the med supply place back, talk to the person who fitted you with the mask, and tell them you need to try a different one.

Hang in there! Kudos to you for finding this website and becoming actively involved in your treatment.

[cpapqueen1]

Hello! You need to do 2 things:
1) get with the DME company and demand a refit to a full face mask. (all major vendors Resmed, Respironics and F&P) have a 30 day mask guarantee program). Mention this to the DME and I'm sure you'll get a different response.

2) insulate your cpap tubing. I love Resmed's tube buddy!

HTH!

[CRS]

Well now I've read your other thread where you mentioned that they showed up at your house and gave you what they thought you needed. As someone else mentioned, you got a good machine! But the mask situation is all wrong. A call to your ENT's office should straighten things out- tell them you think you need a full face mask and need to be fitted for one, that it didn't happen at your sleep study, and how the med supply place gave you a nasal mask that isn't working for you. Everyone gets the option of trying on different masks in the beginning, that's how it's supposed to go. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

[LoQ]

Just for your information the attached is a reply from Respirionics when I wrote them and ask this exact same thing.
"Dear patient,

The CPAPS were tested at a setting of 5(the highest) and a pressure of 20cm. They lasted 7 to 8 hours. There are some things which will affect that time. The first thing is a large mask leak will cause faster air flow which uses the water faster. The second is the temperature of the room (cool to cold),and the third is the humidity ( dry) in the room. These all will shorten the time which the water will last. If the water runs out before you wake, the heater will not burn up. It does not go above 145 degrees on the heating plate. That is not high enough to do any damage. If you should wake at some time, it is quite alright to add water if you wish.

Product support"

I do not believe what Respironics told you is correct. In particular, they are exactly wrong on the temperature of the room. The colder the room temp, the longer your water supply will last. Colder air has less capacity to acquire and hold water vapor than warm air does. Obviously, Respironics has a flaw in their product support information. Because they didn't get this right, and no studies were needed on the air temperature issue (it's a law of physics), everything else they told you with regard to the "study" they claim to have done is suspect.

I sometimes pre-heat the air coming into my machine. On the nights that I do that, I use far more water than when I don't pre-heat the air. That is consistent with the laws of the universe. Respironics claim is at odds with the laws of the universe.

[mindy]

I do not believe what Respironics told you is correct. In particular, they are exactly wrong on the temperature of the room. The colder the room temp, the longer your water supply will last. Colder air has less capacity to acquire and hold water vapor than warm air does. Obviously, Respironics has a flaw in their product support information. Because they didn't get this right, and no studies were needed on the air temperature issue (it's a law of physics), everything else they told you with regard to the "study" they claim to have done is suspect.

I sometimes pre-heat the air coming into my machine. On the nights that I do that, I use far more water than when I don't pre-heat the air. That is consistent with the laws of the universe. Respironics claim is at odds with the laws of the universe.

Hmmm - yes, I agree that colder air can't hold as much water vapor, thus it is drier and then it takes more humidity to keep our nasal passages from drying out. That's the reason people run humidifers when it's cold. So, if it takes more humidity to keep nasal passages moist, then that humidity needs to come from the humidifier (at a higher setting) ... and thus it uses *more* water, not less. Time for a refresher on the laws of physics.

Mindy

[Andy99]

Thanks for all the great responses
I wanted to give an update.
Last night I had it set on 3 again and I woke up this morning with water still in the tank. I think I got the mask adjusted better last night then the other 2 nights. I only woke up twice last night. I went to bed at 10:30 and woke up at 12:30. I dont know why but I was a little dry so i took a drink and went back to sleep. Then I woke up again at 4:00. It took me a little longer to fall asleep this time. It felt like I wasnt getting enough air. I turned off the cflex feature and after about 30 minutes I fell back to sleep. I woke up at 7:00 All in all it was my best night so far. My wife also said she woke up I was still asleep. I was breathing very steady and not doing the gasping long pauses in my breathing thing I did before the mask.

[mindy]

Andy,

Glad to hear to had a better night last night. It does take time to tweak this therapy and it sounds like you're well on your way to working with this instead of fighting it or giving up.

Keep it up!

Mindy

[LoQ]

Hmmm - yes, I agree that colder air can't hold as much water vapor, thus it is drier and then it takes more humidity to keep our nasal passages from drying out. That's the reason people run humidifers when it's cold. So, if it takes more humidity to keep nasal passages moist, then that humidity needs to come from the humidifier (at a higher setting) ... and thus it uses *more* water, not less.

Thank you so much for the instruction!!

Time for a refresher on the laws of physics.

Mindy

Indeed.