My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

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feeling_better
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by feeling_better » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:17 pm

looking4zzzz wrote:This is just a thought, but would putting in a piece of cotton shoelace accomplish the same thing? I was thinking that it would avoid the need for sewing anything, and might be an appropriate size. I didn't know how important the bendy-wire part is...would the shoelace just fall without the wire part to hold it up a bit? Just wondering...
I think it would not keep to the outside edge. It may not easy to find cotton anyting these days But please do try and let us know. Thanks.
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Gerald
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by Gerald » Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:00 pm

The shoelace idea is interesting. If one could find a cotton shoelace.....and if that shoelace is a "woven tube" shape, it might be possible to shove a piece of plastic Weed-Eater material right through the middle of it. The Weed-Eater plastic weed cutting material is stiff enough to make the shoelace conform to the outer perimeter of the nose-piece.....and that might make a very neat installation.

Some of us with Aura Headrest masks are using cotton string in our nose-pieces.....and that works well for us.....but, I can't see a way to use string in the Swift (because of the difference in nose-piece design).

I'm not sure I can accurately remember the size, but an old-fashioned kerosene lantern had a "wick" that I think was cotton. Somewhere there has to be a hardware store that has a piece of "lantern wick" material that might just be perfect.

We've got an Ace Hardware store nearby that has a lot of that "old stuff" and I'll check to see what they have that might work.

Gerald

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plr66
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by plr66 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:53 pm

FeelingBetter, can you tell us how effective this ingenious invention has been? I have time this weekend to mess with it...will search my drawers and closet for an old pair of shoelaces which might be cotton. I also found that I actually have a pack of oil lamp wicking, but it is about 3/4" across and tubular at that, so quite thick and heavy. Come to think of it, the wicking would probably hold its shape without the weedeater spine. I might try this after washing the stuff.

Silly question probably, but will there be any adverse effect on the air pressure by filling in part of the pillow space with such stuff?
DeVilbiss IntelliPap Std Plus with Smartflex; Transcend miniCPAP & Everest2 w/humidifier & batt for travel. UltraMirage FFM; PadACheeks; PaPillow. Using straight CPAP at 13.0/passover humidifier. AHI consistently < 1.5. Began CPAP 9/4/08.

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plr66
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by plr66 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:09 pm

An immediate postscript to my note.....Being the insufferable packrat that I am, I just went to my sewing supply (junk) cabinet drawers, and found the perfect no-stitching-needed solution. Perhaps. I have a lifetime supply of heavy round cotton cording that I have pulled out of athletic pants with elastic waists. It will need the weedeater spine to be inserted, and is a much better size than the folded lamp-wicking (which clearly might obstruct the airway).

YAY! Will try this tonight, as I now have little rainclouds inside my hoses since it's been getting into the 40's at night and I still have my windows open for wonderful sleeping

Thanks again for the great idea, FeelingBetter.
DeVilbiss IntelliPap Std Plus with Smartflex; Transcend miniCPAP & Everest2 w/humidifier & batt for travel. UltraMirage FFM; PadACheeks; PaPillow. Using straight CPAP at 13.0/passover humidifier. AHI consistently < 1.5. Began CPAP 9/4/08.

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feeling_better
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by feeling_better » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:18 pm

plr66 wrote:FeelingBetter, can you tell us how effective this ingenious invention has been?
Extremely effective! As long as you pour in (allowed to condense) less water than the wick can hold, which is about 15+ drops for mine (I measure everything), you would not feel the rainout. But you can crank up the HH setting, and/or hoist the hose over your head to drain all that water into the pillow, or do a variety of other things and I am sure will succeed in flooding the pillows with plenty of water!
Silly question probably, but will there be any adverse effect on the air pressure by filling in part of the pillow space with such stuff?
It won't have any effect on the air pressure at all, as long as your make of the wick is not blocking the two holes connecting to the cpap tube end, or the two holes going to your nostrils. If you are of a scientific bend, it would have a very small, perhaps hard to measure at all, effect on the CO2 washout rate, because the wick will decrease the dead space in the pillow. Since I measure everything, I did do that too My wick reduces the dead space by about 5cc.
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Gerald
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by Gerald » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:31 pm

I made the visit to the local Ace hardware.....and purchased a lantern wick.

Turns out, the wick is 1" wide..... about 1/16" thick......and made of cotton.

The cotton sewing cord is a much better idea than the lantern wick, however.

Gerald

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feeling_better
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Additional notes on rainout in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by feeling_better » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:55 pm

I have done a bit more experiments, and the following may be helpful to some of you.

As long as you have the cpap tube positioned such that it is not draining any condensation in the big cpap tube into the small tube of the swift LT, the condensation in the big cpap tube does directly add to the rain outs. Many people hoist the tube above their head, for convenience. If you have any condensation problems at all, keeping it hoisted like this is going to make the condensation much worse. For reducing the condensation, the big tube should really be going slanting down back to the cpap machine, slanting down from the earliest point possible.

Once you have eliminated the above problem, that leaves most of the condensation from the small cpap tube (in the case of Swift LT), especially if you are using over-your-head routing. As I mentioned in my original post in the beginning of this thread, the condensation is from the incoming hh water as well as the moisture from your out breath. The moisture from your out breath would be a bigger factor if you are running at a very low pressure, as in my case at about 5cm, and if you are using aflex/cflex settings at the high end. This is because more of your out breath will go into the tube and come back, eventually gets washed out thru the out port holes; but will partly condense in the small tube in the process. Insulating this small 12" section of the tube will considerably reduce the total amount of condensation. The effect was quite dramatic for me. If you can control the total condensation, then my wick, the topic of this thread, will completely absorb one night's rain out.

Now I am going to say something which is a totally contrarian opinion to most all the conventional wisdom I have seen here! If you are not keeping the cpap hose hoisted over your head, so that condensate from that tube is not flowing into your mask, then insulating the cpap hose is going to increase the condensation in the mask rather than decrease it! You see, if condensation takes place in the cpap tube, then the humidity of the air coming into the mask will be lower than without condensation. Of course, you can achieve the same with running your hh at a lower level. There may be a case for insulating the hose: if one really wants to have a very high level of humidication for other reasons --- not rain out related --, then preventing the condensation in the tube will help.

When you are doing your experiment with all these, please keep in mind, the room humidity and the temperature have a lot of effect on condensation, and these two factors may vary a lot from night to night.
Resmed S9 Elite cpap mode, H5i Humidifier, Swift FX Bella L nasal pillows

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plr66
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by plr66 » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:31 pm

Okay, so tonight I have the HH set at "O", and will keep the hoses under the covers as is my usual practice...though my machine is on the nightstand next to my bed and only about 4" below the level of my head. I still have every expectation that this lil' gizmo will be the solution to the more typical droplets caused by breathing condensation in the pillow than the flood I got with trying the hose clipped to the top of my head last night.
DeVilbiss IntelliPap Std Plus with Smartflex; Transcend miniCPAP & Everest2 w/humidifier & batt for travel. UltraMirage FFM; PadACheeks; PaPillow. Using straight CPAP at 13.0/passover humidifier. AHI consistently < 1.5. Began CPAP 9/4/08.

anon

Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by anon » Thu May 07, 2009 4:28 pm

so i liked the idea of lining the nose piece but it can be a bit unsanitary if you use it over and over..

My disposable solution is to get "Breath Right" Strips the nose things.. if you snore you already know what these are.. then take a standard cotton ball (one that unrolls) unroll it the same length as the nose strip an tear it to match the strip. Take the adhesive off the nose strip and put it on the cotton strip. now you have the perfect disposable nose piece liner.

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feeling_better
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by feeling_better » Thu May 07, 2009 5:53 pm

anon wrote:so i liked the idea of lining the nose piece but it can be a bit unsanitary if you use it over and over..

My disposable solution is to get "Breath Right" Strips the nose things.. if you snore you already know what these are.. then take a standard cotton ball (one that unrolls) unroll it the same length as the nose strip an tear it to match the strip. Take the adhesive off the nose strip and put it on the cotton strip. now you have the perfect disposable nose piece liner.
I am the original starter of this thread. I strongly recommend against introducing any adhesives into your breathing circuit. While I have no idea about the glue used on BreathRights, some glue even in minute quantities can be extremely toxic if sniffed or breathed, esspecially over a prolonged period! Instead of the glue strip, if you can find a similar plastic strip without the glue, such as the ones used as stays or stiffeners within shirt collars, you may be able to just wrap your cotton idea around it.
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happysleeper
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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by happysleeper » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:44 pm

...then take a standard cotton ball (one that unrolls) unroll it the same length as the nose strip an tear it to match the strip. Take the adhesive off the nose strip and put it on the cotton strip. now you have the perfect disposable nose piece liner.
Sorry Anon, I also would not suggest putting a torn cotton ball, which may have loose fibers, into cpap systems. Lungs will be healthier if not breathing in foreign fibers at night.

Happy Sleeper

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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by sronsen » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:06 am

Guaranteed to prevent hose and mask rainout without added maintenance:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27579&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... eated+hose

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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by GumbyCT » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:41 am

sronsen wrote:Guaranteed to prevent hose and mask rainout without added maintenance:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27579&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... eated+hose
Agreed with the hose but this can do nothing for rainout which occurs within the mask. Some masks are just more prone to rainout. just fwiw

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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by sronsen » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:00 pm

GumbyCT wrote:
Agreed with the hose but this can do nothing for rainout which occurs within the mask. Some masks are just more prone to rainout. just fwiw
I strongly disagree - from experience. The heater heats the air from the CPAP enough so that it can maintain the added humidity from exhaled breath without condensation. I never had hose rainout, only in the mask, and never since using the cable heater. The same is attested to by the Aussie hose advocates.

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Re: My fix for rainout (condensation) in Swift LT nasal pillow

Post by GumbyCT » Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:14 pm

sronsen wrote:
GumbyCT wrote:
Agreed with the hose but this can do nothing for rainout which occurs within the mask. Some masks are just more prone to rainout. just fwiw
I strongly disagree - from experience.
I guess you feel like your experience trumps mine?

So be it!!

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Humidifier: HC150 Heated Humidifier With Hose, 2 Chambers and Stand
Additional Comments: New users can't remember they can't remember YET!
BeganCPAP31Jan2007;AHI<0.5
I have no doubt, how I sleep affects every waking moment.
I am making progress-NOW I remember that I can't remember
;)
If this isn’t rocket science why are there so many spaceshots?
Be your own healthcare advocate!