Tap Water in your humidifier can kill you

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Mikesus
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Tap Water in your humidifier can kill you

Post by Mikesus » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:45 pm

Legionnaire's disease in water system eyed

BY ADAM LISBERG
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

State health officials are investigating whether the death of a Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center patient may have been caused by an outbreak of deadly Legionnaire's disease bacteria in the hospital's water system.

The upper Manhattan hospital turned off its faucets and brought in bottled water while it sterilized pipes in the 675-bed Milstein Hospital building after the tragic death.

But the patient's family believes the hospital has failed to do enough.

"If they knew they had a problem with the water, why didn't they tell us to use bottled water?" asked Neil Montesano, whose 63-year-old father, Richard, died April 13 shortly after entering the hospital with a heart condition.

Richard Montesano used a machine that sprayed water in his throat to combat sleep apnea, his family says, but the hospital never warned them to avoid tap water.

"Maybe more cases will come out now," said Neil Montesano, 33, one of the Tarrytown man's four children.

The city medical examiner ruled that Richard Montesano died of an infection after having a catheter placed in his arm, but is waiting for lab results to determine whether Legionnaire's was a factor, a spokeswoman said.

Joe DiMura, a spokesman for the state Health Department, said the state was aware of the case. "We are investigating," DiMura said.

Columbia Presbyterian spokeswoman Myrna Manners would not comment on Montesano's death, but said the medical center regularly monitored its water for the Legionnaire's bacteria and spent millions of dollars to eliminate it once it was found.

"We want to take all the necessary steps to ensure the safety of the water,"
she said. "Our patients are our highest priority."

Legionnaire's bacteria is found in the water systems of many large buildings.

It rarely causes infections or deaths, but it is a particular hazard in hospitals where patients with compromised immune systems are often vulnerable.

Montesano contracted a 103-degree fever in late March and was diagnosed with Legionnaire's disease after a March 31 blood test, his family said.

Maintenance workers removed every faucet in the Milstein building the weekend of April 9 and 10, then superheated the building's water supply to near boiling as part of the cleaning, Manners said.

The hospital also ran a special chlorination process and installed an ionization system to kill the bacteria, in addition to bringing in bottled water for drinking.

Manners said the hospital is still waiting for final test results on whether the bacteria is gone.

Originally published on April 20, 2005


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Mikesus
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Post by Mikesus » Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:57 am

Suprised this generated no comments?

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LDuyer
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Post by LDuyer » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:00 am

Mikesus wrote:Suprised this generated no comments?
Give it time. I suspect it will generate plenty of interest.
Interesting article.

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There
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Post by There » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:25 am

It's a horrible and sad story, but I can't say I'm particularly worried. Water supplies have been known to be infected periodically, and if he hadn't gotten it through his humidifier then he may well have gotten ill some other way. If he was able to get up on his own, he could be the type that swallows water after brushing his teeth, or after washing his hands. If bedridden, his family could have wet a washcloth and washed his face for him and transferred the disease through his eyes or mouth. The water doesn't scare me, and I'll continue to use whatever I need to to make sure my humidifier provides me with benefits (though I am considering not using tap water, only because I have very hard water and don't want to uncrust things down the road).

I think it was most interesting to note the article said his BPAP "sprayed water down his throat". Could you imagine? Yeah, he wouldn't snore because he'd drown!

My heartfelt sympathies to his family.

Tina
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LDuyer
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Post by LDuyer » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:31 am

Hi Tina,

You made some good points.

I hate to admit I'm guilty of using tap water too often. I don't get to the store often enough to get distilled water all the time. And frankly, I resent having to buy that all the time (dumb, I know). But maybe I'll get one of those distillers for the tap water. That might be more convenient, and use distilled whenever I'm able to get it. (Don't tell Mikesus I've been bad with the tap water!!!)


Welcome to the forum, by the way!


Linda

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Post by Guest » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:55 am

LDuyer wrote:I hate to admit I'm guilty of using tap water too often. I don't get to the store often enough to get distilled water all the time. And frankly, I resent having to buy that all the time (dumb, I know). But maybe I'll get one of those distillers for the tap water. That might be more convenient, and use distilled whenever I'm able to get it.
How often do you go to the store???? I buy a couple of gallons and it lasts me a month. It only costs a couple of dollars for two gallons. How much does a distiller cost? and how do you keep it bacteria free? and how much do you spend to heat the water to distill it?

Sounds more like laziness than anything else. The exercise walking around the store would probably do you some good.

Are you going to expect your health insurance to buy you a new humidifier when the one you have gets all gummed up from the tap water?

It's really not that hard.

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LDuyer
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Post by LDuyer » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:57 am

Guess I've been properly scolded.

Good points.

Could you have phrased it nicer?



Hmmm. Could it be that "Guest" is Wader?
Sure sounds like Wader!


Linda, who has strong suspicions
Last edited by LDuyer on Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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There
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Post by There » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:17 am

I don't use water straight from the tap, just tap water that's been filtered through my PUR pitcher. But the more I hear people talk about it, the more I think I'm going to get some distilled water. We're at the stores constantly, so that's not an issue. But we also use purified water in our fish tank (not distilled), keeps down on algae and lime. So adding a gallon or so of distilled to the list when we get fish tank water would be no big deal at all.

Thanks for the welcome, Linda! I'm still so happy I found this place and for all the support and information I get from everyone who posts

Tina
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LDuyer
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Post by LDuyer » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:22 am

Thanks, Tina,

I think it neat how you list your cpap info at the end of your posts (the signature part). I think that's a good idea. We're often asking each other what we have, so as to help give advice or suggestions.

Funny how we are now defined by what equipment we use! Haha!
(now, if I can only remember the name of my mask!)


Linda

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Mikesus
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Post by Mikesus » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:28 am

Anonymous wrote:
How often do you go to the store???? I buy a couple of gallons and it lasts me a month. It only costs a couple of dollars for two gallons. How much does a distiller cost? and how do you keep it bacteria free? and how much do you spend to heat the water to distill it?
First, not everyone can get to the store on a regular basis. Second, if you don't know how a home distiller works, don't knock it. We have one for our RV (the nearest store at times could be 50 miles away) and it is much more convenient to distill a gallon of water than drive 100 miles round trip. As to keeping it bacteria free, a lot of the tabletop distillers are steam distillers, so that takes care of itself.

The problem that you are overlooking is that use of distilled water appears to be a safer alternative, WHATEVER way you get it.

gailzee
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Re: Tap Water in your humidifier can kill you

Post by gailzee » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:53 am

I read this article in the local paper. "SPRAYING WATER INTO A THROAT TO AVOID APNEA"" guess the writer in the press never read this msg board.

Now, this opens up a whole new kettle of worms. Who's resp. is it, to be sure when one brings equipment (with a fight to be sure) to use for apnea that the water be distilled and followed up and cleaned......who's resp. is if the hosp. gives you some BREATHED IN GROSSED OUT MACHINE...How would a patient, or a family member/friend, know what germs are in there.............Can one refuse their machinery in a course of treatment? Boy lots of unanswered questions in this one, only one who wins is the lawyer. Sad story.
Mikesus wrote:
Legionnaire's disease in water system eyed

BY ADAM LISBERG
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

State health officials are investigating whether the death of a Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center patient may have been caused by an outbreak of deadly Legionnaire's disease bacteria in the hospital's water system.

The upper Manhattan hospital turned off its faucets and brought in bottled water while it sterilized pipes in the 675-bed Milstein Hospital building after the tragic death.

But the patient's family believes the hospital has failed to do enough.

"If they knew they had a problem with the water, why didn't they tell us to use bottled water?" asked Neil Montesano, whose 63-year-old father, Richard, died April 13 shortly after entering the hospital with a heart condition.

Richard Montesano used a machine that sprayed water in his throat to combat sleep apnea, his family says, but the hospital never warned them to avoid tap water.

"Maybe more cases will come out now," said Neil Montesano, 33, one of the Tarrytown man's four children.

The city medical examiner ruled that Richard Montesano died of an infection after having a catheter placed in his arm, but is waiting for lab results to determine whether Legionnaire's was a factor, a spokeswoman said.

Joe DiMura, a spokesman for the state Health Department, said the state was aware of the case. "We are investigating," DiMura said.

Columbia Presbyterian spokeswoman Myrna Manners would not comment on Montesano's death, but said the medical center regularly monitored its water for the Legionnaire's bacteria and spent millions of dollars to eliminate it once it was found.

"We want to take all the necessary steps to ensure the safety of the water,"
she said. "Our patients are our highest priority."

Legionnaire's bacteria is found in the water systems of many large buildings.

It rarely causes infections or deaths, but it is a particular hazard in hospitals where patients with compromised immune systems are often vulnerable.

Montesano contracted a 103-degree fever in late March and was diagnosed with Legionnaire's disease after a March 31 blood test, his family said.

Maintenance workers removed every faucet in the Milstein building the weekend of April 9 and 10, then superheated the building's water supply to near boiling as part of the cleaning, Manners said.

The hospital also ran a special chlorination process and installed an ionization system to kill the bacteria, in addition to bringing in bottled water for drinking.

Manners said the hospital is still waiting for final test results on whether the bacteria is gone.

Originally published on April 20, 2005


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wading thru the muck!
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Post by wading thru the muck! » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:25 am

LDuyer wrote:Hmmm. Could it be that "Guest" is Wader?
Sure sounds like Wader!

Nope! not me, you must have also raised someone elses ire.
Sincerely,
wading thru the muck of the sleep study/DME/Insurance money pit!

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Post by sleepy gal » Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:54 am

I heard this story on the morning news yesterday and immediately went and got my humidifier and cleaned it like a crazy person! I know it was supposed to have been the water in the hospital, and I do use distilled water, but It seems to me that we all need to pay attention to this and to keep those humidifiers clean. I had not been doing so on a regular basis, just adding more water.

No more! Clean, clean, clean!

Just my thoughts and reaction.

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LDuyer
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Re: Tap Water in your humidifier can kill you

Post by LDuyer » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:11 am

Is it just me, or does this bipap machine look more like a canister vacuum cleaner than most of the machines?


Linda

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ballast949
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"investigating" "may have" "believe

Post by ballast949 » Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:54 pm

Seems to me this is pretty speculative. There is an investigation to determine if this MAY be the cause. The family believes it is. So what are the results of the investigation? Certainly makes for an interesting & exciting news article, but how much fact is involved. If the tap water was responsible, why didn't many of the other hospital patients and staff contract the disease? Surely some of them drank the water, or breathed the mist in the shower, etc, etc??

"SPRAYING WATER INTO A THROAT TO AVOID APNEA"? The reporter didn't take the time to get this right or run it by anyone familiar with apnea machines.

"The city medical examiner ruled that Richard Montesano died of an infection after having a catheter placed in his arm, but is waiting for lab results to determine whether Legionnaire's was a factor, a spokeswoman said." So the medical examiner thinks the infection occurred from a catheter insertion?

"Legionnaire's bacteria is found in the water systems of many large buildings. " So it normally would not be found in your home or your drinking waster supply??

Looks to me like sensationalism in reporting strikes again.