Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
49er
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by 49er » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:25 am

It take your point that matters could be better and should be. I'm sure that many specialists would love to see such improvements. I don't for one moment believe that most are indifferent etc.
Back during the darkest dark days of my very prolonged and very difficult adjustment to therapy, Jim, a good friend who is also a doctor, and my husband were talking about my very significant health problems that started grow out of control once I started CPAP therapy. Jim told my hubby that a big part of my problem was that "Most doctors are like mechanics. They want to fix the one body part or disease they specialize in treating and they want to treat the problem in the standard way to fix it without doing any real thinking about how that treatment affects anything other than the thing they specialize in. And right now Robin has a bunch of different mechanics. But Robin needs a 'gardener'. Gardeners look at the whole garden and focus on how to make the whole garden better and not just one part of the garden; gardeners realize that a change here or there affects the whole garden and not just the immediate thing you're working on. Robin needs a doctor who needs to look at her as a whole human being rather than a condition to be treated. And she needs a doc who realizes that all of her problems and treatments are interconnected. She needs a doc or PA who understands that what ever you do for the OSA and CPAP adjustment affects the insomnia; whatever you do for the insomnia affects the OSA and CPAP adjustment and the headaches; and the headaches; and whatever you do for the headaches affects the insomnia and the OSA and CPAP adjustment. But docs who are gardeners instead of mechanics are pretty hard to find."

It took a long time to find my "gardner", but finding my the gardner(s) is what finally got me back into the world of the living rather than the half dead.[/quote]

Jim nailed the situation big time. A sleep doctor/neuropsychiatrist out of my area that I would love to see even though he doesn't deal with apnea has taken a broad based view. Depending on the patient, he will prescribe meds, suggest supplements and even particular foods for sleep issues. But sadly, doctors like him are quite rare.

49er

User avatar
archangle
Posts: 9294
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:55 am

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by archangle » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:08 pm

Let's consider a slightly different example.

MRI scans are unquestionably a valid diagnostic technique.

There are plenty of doctors who will prescribe unwarranted MRI's just to line their pockets. Quite a few doctors have financial interest in providers of MRI scans. Some commit outright fraud, some are just "drinking their own Kool-Aid, and are biased in favor of running MRI $can$ that are in the gray areas. Many of them will also order an MRI to CYA vs. lawsuits when they really know it's not in the best interest of the patient.

I think the medical mafia is very bad in terms of a lot of things like this.

In terms of CPAP/Apnea, here are my opinions.

I think it's rare to get a fake apnea diagnosis from a sleep test. It's pretty clear cut from the data, and the profit in a fake apnea diagnosis just isn't that high enough. If anything, the insurance rules probably cause people who need treatment to be not diagnosed because it's not bad enough.

Many DME's are scam artists, in various ways. Unnecessary equipment, substandard CPAP machines, lies, etc.

I consider a large percentage of doctors prescribing CPAP to be scam artists. They allow their patients to be given brick CPAP machines. They charge their patients for "professional care" with regular followup visits, but don't bother to actually learn how to treat the patient properly or to take the effort to give good care. I consider any sleep doctor who doesn't look at each patient's data from a fully data capable CPAP machine to be a quack. It's like a doctor treating a diabetic, but not checking the patient's blood sugar and A1C.

I consider any surgeon/ENT/sleep doctor who recommends surgery for any apnea patient who hasn't tried really hard with CPAP to be a scammer, a quack, and a butcher.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Also SleepyHead, PRS1 Auto, Respironics Auto M series, Legacy Auto, and Legacy Plus
Please enter your equipment in your profile so we can help you.
Click here for information on the most common alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check for yourself.

Useful Links.

User avatar
49er
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by 49er » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:12 am

I consider a large percentage of doctors prescribing CPAP to be scam artists. They allow their patients to be given brick CPAP machines. They charge their patients for "professional care" with regular followup visits, but don't bother to actually learn how to treat the patient properly or to take the effort to give good care. I consider any sleep doctor who doesn't look at each patient's data from a fully data capable CPAP machine to be a quack. It's like a doctor treating a diabetic, but not checking the patient's blood sugar and A1C
.

Agree with your point. The problem is even if doctors look that data and it looks good, they consider everything to be fine when it may not be.
I consider any surgeon/ENT/sleep doctor who recommends surgery for any apnea patient who hasn't tried really hard with CPAP to be a scammer, a quack, and a butcher.
The ENTS I saw were definitely not surgery happy. I think I was the one pushing to get deviated septum surgery until I reconsidered against it for various reasons. And none of them tried to push anything else.

One did try to claim that the surgery would cure my apnea but I shot down that theory pretty quickly.

49er

User avatar
archangle
Posts: 9294
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:55 am

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by archangle » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:55 am

49er wrote:
I consider any surgeon/ENT/sleep doctor who recommends surgery for any apnea patient who hasn't tried really hard with CPAP to be a scammer, a quack, and a butcher.
The ENTS I saw were definitely not surgery happy. I think I was the one pushing to get deviated septum surgery until I reconsidered against it for various reasons. And none of them tried to push anything else.

One did try to claim that the surgery would cure my apnea but I shot down that theory pretty quickly.

49er
Deviated septum surgery is legit if you need it. If an apneac has a deviated septum, they can use a full face mask. If the ENT explains the benefits and downsides of deviated septum surgery to the patient, that's fine. I suspect that deviated septum surgery probably won't cure apenea for many patients, but it may make CPAP easier and more effective and have benefits for life in general as well.

Not all ENT's are chop happy. Unfortunately, quite a few of them are.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Also SleepyHead, PRS1 Auto, Respironics Auto M series, Legacy Auto, and Legacy Plus
Please enter your equipment in your profile so we can help you.
Click here for information on the most common alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check for yourself.

Useful Links.

naturalisbest
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:18 am

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by naturalisbest » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:38 pm

My guess is that you may have a had a few drinky's or a sleeping pill or two before the first test. I needed something to get through my first test and my apnea was higher.

_________________
Mask: Aloha Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Don't think it came with it. New machine less than 6 months old and brand new pillow mask.

JimC

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:10 am

CPAP's and the entire Sleep Apnea arena is a rip off from doctors, clinics and hospitals to make money.

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 13229
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by LSAT » Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:29 am

JimC wrote:CPAP's and the entire Sleep Apnea arena is a rip off from doctors, clinics and hospitals to make money.
Spoken by a person that is in denial.........Tell that to the families of people that have died from untreated sleep apnea.

_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Fisher & Paykel Vitera Full Face Mask with Headgear (S, M, or L Cushion)
Additional Comments: Back up is S9 Autoset...... Buckwheat hull pillow

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34377
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:48 am

Sleep apnea is a REAL THING. It is DEADLY.
Cpap is the best, PROVEN solution.
Costs are comparable to quality bedroom furnishings.
Kwitcherbellyachin!
Some of us value our lives, our health, and our families.
We matter; not some random, anonymous whiner.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
49er
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by 49er » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:15 am

Why was Jim's post deleted since it wasn't spam?

By letting it stand people and have people respond to show him the error of his ways, that makes a far better impression vs. deleting something we don't like.

49er

User avatar
BlackSpinner
Posts: 9745
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:44 pm
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Contact:

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by BlackSpinner » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:40 am

49er wrote:Why was Jim's post deleted since it wasn't spam?

By letting it stand people and have people respond to show him the error of his ways, that makes a far better impression vs. deleting something we don't like.

49er
It wasn't. It is still there. Illustration how much of an idiot he is.

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Hybrid Full Face CPAP Mask with Nasal Pillows and Headgear
Additional Comments: Quatro mask for colds & flus S8 elite for back up
71. The lame can ride on horseback, the one-handed drive cattle. The deaf, fight and be useful. To be blind is better than to be burnt on the pyre. No one gets good from a corpse. The Havamal

User avatar
49er
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by 49er » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:49 am

BlackSpinner wrote:
49er wrote:Why was Jim's post deleted since it wasn't spam?

By letting it stand people and have people respond to show him the error of his ways, that makes a far better impression vs. deleting something we don't like.

49er
It wasn't. It is still there. Illustration how much of an idiot he is.
Thanks for letting me know and not saying critical about my mistake. Actually, I feel like an idiot.

Ok, now I will respond in another post.

49er

User avatar
49er
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by 49er » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:59 am

JimC wrote:CPAP's and the entire Sleep Apnea arena is a rip off from doctors, clinics and hospitals to make money.
Jim,

I wish it were as someone who has struggled with pap therapy. I would love to throw the machine out of my apartment window and go back to the way things were prior to my having sleep apnea.

But wait a minute! A home and two full scale sleep studies that indicate moderate sleep apnea tell me differently. And when I have inadvertently taken my mask off which fortunately rarely happens but did a few days ago, my subsequent elevated heart rate reminded me of my diagnosis.

So no, this is one diagnosis that is definitely legitimate.

49er

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34377
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:50 pm

Some of us are lucky, and learn to love our cpaps.
Others have my undying respect, as they continue to use their cpaps,
because they know it must be done.
You don't have to like it---just do it! It gets better.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
Wulfman...
Posts: 6688
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:41 pm
Location: Nearest fishing spot

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by Wulfman... » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:01 pm

JimC wrote:CPAP's and the entire Sleep Apnea arena is a rip off from doctors, clinics and hospitals to make money.
Thankfully, most of the rest of us aren't as STUUUUUUUUPID as you are!!!

You obviously haven't done any research on Sleep Apnea and the harm it inflicts on our bodies if untreated.
As possible proof, your brain is already "toast".


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

Lucyhere
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:45 pm

Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by Lucyhere » Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:41 pm

JimC wrote:CPAP's and the entire Sleep Apnea arena is a rip off from doctors, clinics and hospitals to make money.

Jim... I'm curious to know where you got this information. Do you have a link (or anything) to show where you got this information? Thanks.
Resmed AirSense 10 Autoset for her w/humid air/heated Humidifier
Bleep/P10