Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

[chunkyfrog]

It never fails to amaze me that people who will not hesitate to get checked out for cancer
are so afraid of a simple little mask that they will pretend that nothing is wrong until it kills them.
I guess it's a relief they are taking themselves out of the gene pool.
Froggie still sad. What's wrong with me?

[LinkC]

there is no way to say when my 'mere snoring' became chronic sleep apnea.

Perhaps when you stopped getting enough O2 to your brain. That's the primary difference.

[Mkatz27]

Not a "Scam", but definitely BIG BUSINESS. Especially when the Sleep Doc who diagnosis you has a piece of the Sleep Study Centers, and the DME!

[squid13]

Especially when the Sleep Doc who diagnosis you has a piece of the Sleep Study Centers, and the DME!

You don't have to use his DME, you can go elsewhere. Check with your insurance and see what other DME's are in your service area.

[Mkatz27]

I really don't mind...very convenient in fact!!

[Goofproof]

It never fails to amaze me that people who will not hesitate to get checked out for cancer
are so afraid of a simple little mask that they will pretend that nothing is wrong until it kills them.
I guess it's a relief they are taking themselves out of the gene pool.
Froggie still sad. What's wrong with me?

I used to think we could use a little disfectant and make the gene pool cleaner, but it seems the scum has grown so thick, nothing but a full burn and full scraping will renew it. The real cure may be to fill thd old one in, and dig a new one. Jim

[PrimaDonna1030]

It is 6 am and I just got home from my sleep study-the "mask" visit. I must say I am disappointed but will give it a chance till my follow up appointment. I have a setting of 6. I think maybe the cpap is over prescribed. I woke up so often and had marks on my face from the mask even though adjusting tightness a few times. Maybe the number should determine its use. I think at 6 I would be okay without it. Thus I also feel I have wasted money. However; I am willing to see if use over the next month sees an improvement. I went into this hoping to control snoring and to wake up feeling well rested. Otherwise I sleep fine and have no trouble falling asleep and sleeping soundly. I just wonder if anyone who snores is ever turned away from getting one? My husband has one and needs it. He has an 11 setting which they say is severe. I bet if we sent everyone over 60 in for testing, 90% would come home with one.

[Scootergirl]

I'm glad you were able to find a solution that works for you. It sounds like your experience was not a good one. That being said, I find it really irresponsible that you would post something with that title - CPAP treatment and diagnosis are not a scam. It's one thing to tell your story, it another to influence people intentionally or unintentionally without taking into account what your saying - that think before you speak thing? You should also think before you type. I hope your post doesn't influence someone new to this to take a chance with their life by trying a chin strap and abandoning their CPAP treatment. I'm almost 2 weeks in, a very big newbie, and reading something like that to someone who hasn't done their research could have a very negative impact. By all means, tell your story, but to label it a scam is a irresponsible disservice to the many people out there who need their CPAP machines and therapy to survive. I lived without knowing I had this for over 10 years and it's has now affected MY HEART - believe me, if a silly chin strap was all it took, don't you think everyone would be standing in line to get one!

You might have had the same experience I had 10 years ago - I was labeled borderline. But I Never got a machine and not a hint of an offer of any other device - maybe you were lucky in that they caught it before a great deal of time elapsed and damage was done. Fast forward to now, where my primary thinks I'm wearing a mask and using CPAP because it says in my file "sleep apnea" (different doc than 10 years ago). New sleep study - what was once borderline and didn't require intervention from those that did the last sleep study, now is severe and I could DIE without treatment. DIE. I wouldn't think about not using it. You need to get yourself with a doctor you TRUST and a sleep center that has a good reputation. If I were you, I'd be more concerned about why you seemed to have mild apnea during the sleep study and why you didn't on the second and I would want to make triple sure I didn't have it - this isn't something that just causes you to have sleepless nights, it's a serious, life-threatening condition that requires the proper testing and treatment. And if it was a mistake - kudos to you - you lucked out. You might have a lot of out of pocket but go take it up with the sleep center and fight that fight with them. I sure hope in a few years time, you don't find yourself needing something more than a chin strap.

[SleepDisturbed]

As the years tick by, people are going to look back on the "sleep apnea" thing and see it for what it really is: A complete scam. Do some people have obstruction issues? Yes. Can those be medically addressed? Yes. But to say millions of people are overweight, having heart attacks, etc., from sleep apnea? Eating a bag of potato chips can give you a heart attack too. Being overweight can give you a heart attack. Genetics alone can give you a heart attack. It all gets back to one basic thing: If millions of people today have sleep apnea, why didn't we hear about this 20 years ago? At all? Another over-diagnosed, ridiculous concept for the majority of people. But everything today is a "disease" - God forbid it's because you are overweight, leading a sedentary life, not getting fresh air, sunshine, or doing something to make you tired. It used to be called "physical activity". Before everyone had sinus problems, allergies, was afraid of the sun, etc. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

To be succinct, no, it is not.

[Julie]

Someone obviously did not tell you that it's not about snoring!

It's about your breathing being stopped for quite a while either by a neurological impulse or closed airway very many times overnight - not quite enough to waken you so that you remember the events, but enough to really mess up your system, often your life. And the worse it gets, the more likely you'll end up with a heart attack, stroke or worse - having possibly killed someone in the car ahead of you because you were half asleep or certainly non reactive.

No scam needed!

[robysue]

It is 6 am and I just got home from my sleep study-the "mask" visit. I must say I am disappointed but will give it a chance till my follow up appointment. I have a setting of 6. I think maybe the cpap is over prescribed. I woke up so often and had marks on my face from the mask even though adjusting tightness a few times. Maybe the number should determine its use. I think at 6 I would be okay without it.

The severity and need to treat OSA is NOT determined by the pressure setting you need to control your sleep disordered breathing. There are people who need a pressure setting of 6 who have an untreated AHI of 30 or more, which puts them into the severe category. There are people who need a pressure setting of 10+ who have an untreated AHI of only 10 or so, which puts them in mild category. The pressure needed to splint the airway open depends on the structure of airway more than it depends on how often the airway collapses.

Thus I also feel I have wasted money. However; I am willing to see if use over the next month sees an improvement. I went into this hoping to control snoring and to wake up feeling well rested. Otherwise I sleep fine and have no trouble falling asleep and sleeping soundly.

Did your diagnostic sleep study confirm that your only problem is a bit of snoring? Or did the sleep study indicate that you had a lot of apneas and hypopneas along with the snoring?? In other words, what did the diagnostic sleep study say your untreated AHI was? What about your untreated RDI??

And keep in mind that it does take a while to learn how to sleep with a mask on. It takes some of us longer than others. But typically it takes most people somewhere around a month or two before they are really beginning to sleep more soundly with the mask, and it can take another month after that before starting to feel better.

I just wonder if anyone who snores is ever turned away from getting one? My husband has one and needs it. He has an 11 setting which they say is severe. I bet if we sent everyone over 60 in for testing, 90% would come home with one.

If all the sleep study finds is just snoring, many insurance companies are not going to be willing to pay for it. As for people over 60: If they are on Medicare, there are some pretty strict criteria that must be met before Medicare will pay for a CPAP machine. Those criteria are:

(from http://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-da ... AAAAAAIAAA&)
5. An initial 12-week period of CPAP is covered in adult patients with OSA if either of the following criterion using the AHI or RDI are met:

a. AHI or RDI greater than or equal to 15 events per hour, or

b. AHI or RDI greater than or equal to 5 events and less than or equal to 14 events per hour with documented symptoms of excessive daytime sleepiness, impaired cognition, mood disorders or insomnia, or documented hypertension, ischemic heart disease, or history of stroke.

6. The AHI or RDI is calculated on the average number of events of per hour. If the AHI or RDI is calculated based on less than 2 hours of continuous recorded sleep, the total number of recorded events to calculate the AHI or RDI during sleep testing must be at a minimum the number of events that would have been required in a 2-hour period.

7. Apnea is defined as a cessation of airflow for at least 10 seconds. Hypopnea is defined as an abnormal respiratory event lasting at least 10 seconds with at least a 30% reduction in thoracoabdominal movement or airflow as compared to baseline, and with at least a 4% oxygen desaturation.

For someone who is NOT displaying obvious daytime symptoms of untreated OSA, Medicare's requirements say that the person has to actually have OSA that is classified as moderate (not mild) before a CPAP can be prescribed. They're more generous if the person has mild OSA, but is also experiencing daytime symptoms.

And it's worth noting that Medicare's definition of hyponea excludes hypopneas that are associated with arousals, but do not have an O2 desat.

So, no I don't think that if everybody over 60 got tested that 90% of them would walk out with a CPAP prescription.

[zoocrewphoto]

I'm glad you were able to find a solution that works for you. It sounds like your experience was not a good one. That being said, I find it really irresponsible that you would post something with that title - CPAP treatment and diagnosis are not a scam. It's one thing to tell your story, it another to influence people intentionally or unintentionally without taking into account what your saying - that think before you speak thing? You should also think before you type. I hope your post doesn't influence someone new to this to take a chance with their life by trying a chin strap and abandoning their CPAP treatment. I'm almost 2 weeks in, a very big newbie, and reading something like that to someone who hasn't done their research could have a very negative impact. By all means, tell your story, but to label it a scam is a irresponsible disservice to the many people out there who need their CPAP machines and therapy to survive. I lived without knowing I had this for over 10 years and it's has now affected MY HEART - believe me, if a silly chin strap was all it took, don't you think everyone would be standing in line to get one!

This thread was actually started several years ago by somebody else. This new person responded to a post and continued it. So, they didn't actually pick the title. They probably went online to research whether it was a scam and found the thread that had already discussed it, and then responded to it.

Hopefully, they will stay a bit and learn more about sleep apnea. Doctors sure don't explain it very well.

Also, we culd help more if we know what the sleep study found - ahi, rdi, how low the oxygen saturation went.

[Sclark08]

I think the SCAM comes in when the Drs and insurance companies get involved in the process. If you have a good foundation provided by your sleep specialist and DME you are on your way to feeling much better and possibly living longer than you might have. You must understand you have to act as your own advocate and educate yourself about condition.
I know I feel so much better and now I am able to cut back some on blood pressure meds and am starting to loose weight. I tried 500 masks (seems like) and found the best one for me forced myself to be compliant and after 1 1/2 years now feel the struggle was worth it. Sleep apnea is very serious. I went through a small period when I developed pulmonary hypertension which is more serious than apnea even though is caused by it. Never give up advocate for yourself and accept the fact you have so condition that must be treated. Best of luck!

[BlackSpinner]

After more then 7 years the answer is still NO. And people still float down the river of De'Nial towards the water fall.

[jaye8898]

I'm with those who believe the post is the "scam". U of P is an outstanding teaching hospital. I don't believe they would order a second test without a really good reason (not to mention insurance would not pay for it) and chin straps don't cure a deadly disease.

You got us all talking that's for sure. Congrats on stirring things up!