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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Goofproof
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Goofproof on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:14 pm

There is NO Vaccine for the CAN'T Virus, and it's highly contagious. Jim

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Mask: ComfortGel Original Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP @15 CM & CMS 50E PULSE OX O2 3L
Maturity is the ability to stick with a job until it's finished; the ability to do a job without being supervised; the ability to carry money without spending it; and the ability to bear an injustice without wanting to get even.

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chunkyfrog
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby chunkyfrog on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:47 pm

Some people have made up their "minds" already.
It appears no amount of logic will change their denial into a readiness to make it work.
Regretfully, we may need to save our energy and let them stampede into the sea.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.

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Wulfman...
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Wulfman... on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:28 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Some people have made up their "minds" already.
It appears no amount of logic will change their denial into a readiness to make it work.
Regretfully, we may need to save our energy and let them stampede into the sea.


That reminded me of something.

The following image appeared on a Far Side calendar page for Monday, January 22, 2001.

One of my co-workers left the page on my desk with a handwritten subtitle "The Survivor".
I made it into a Desktop background image on one of my home computers. It's still there.
Ironically, January 22 is also on a Monday this year.

Image


Den (still trying to survive)

.
(4) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 12 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

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Goofproof
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Goofproof on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:32 pm

Wulfman... wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:Some people have made up their "minds" already.
It appears no amount of logic will change their denial into a readiness to make it work.
Regretfully, we may need to save our energy and let them stampede into the sea.


That reminded me of something.

The following image appeared on a Far Side calendar page for Monday, January 22, 2001.

One of my co-workers left the page on my desk with a handwritten subtitle "The Survivor".
I made it into a Desktop background image on one of my home computers. It's still there.
Ironically, January 22 is also on a Monday this year.

Image


Den (still trying to survive)

.


Stupid thinking never likes to be alone, they always want others to go with them. Jim

_________________
Mask: ComfortGel Original Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP @15 CM & CMS 50E PULSE OX O2 3L
Maturity is the ability to stick with a job until it's finished; the ability to do a job without being supervised; the ability to carry money without spending it; and the ability to bear an injustice without wanting to get even.

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Wulfman...
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Wulfman... on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:11 pm

Goofproof wrote:Stupid thinking never likes to be alone, they always want others to go with them. Jim


Interestingly or maybe coincidentally, this is where I found that image:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/07/10/ ... of-crowds/


Den

.
(4) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 12 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

FlyingMoose
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby FlyingMoose on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:49 am

Since the jaw is a lever, tissue above the fulcrum would be pushed in but tissue below would be pulled out. Depending on where the obstruction is, it seems possible this would help.

Because of my physiology, my mouth tends to stay wide open during the night. I’m going to experiment for a few nights by wearing a chin strap and seeing if my numbers (pressure or ahi) change.

I will report back. Even if it lets me lower the pressure by a couple points it would be a benefit.

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chunkyfrog
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby chunkyfrog on Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:32 am

Please, for goodness sake, google TMJ.

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Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.

FlyingMoose
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby FlyingMoose on Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:32 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Please, for goodness sake, google TMJ.


Since the joint is so high up, that supports my point even more.

First night wearing a chin strap seemed to be an improvement.

TedVPAP
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby TedVPAP on Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:48 pm

Goofproof wrote:
49er wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:The real scams are alternative treatments.
(Not listed here for space considerations)
We KNOW that cpap/apap works--end of story.


CF,

Pap therapy does not work for everyone in spite of their best efforts. To say that alternative treatments like dental devices, sleep apnea surgeries like the Inspire Procedure and MMA advancement surgery don't work is more about your biases than looking at the facts. It also a scare tactic than can prevent people from looking at necessary alternatives that they desperately need to prevent further decline from sleep apnea.

Of course, everyone should start with pap therapy and do whatever it takes to make it work. Even reputable sleep apnea surgeons will advise that. And when I investigated the Inspire Procedure, which I didn't qualify for, unfortunately, I don't think I would have been considered unless I had tried pap therapy or used a dental device for a least 6 months.

But the question is how many does someone keep trying before moving on to other methods particularly if it is clear they have done everything possible to optimize their therapy? One, five, ten, twenty, thirty?


That's the Problem: Best Efforts! Most of the ones that fail using XPAP, play at making a Best Effort, but in reality their mindset is De-Nile. Others get caught up in climbing the ladder of more complex XPAPs, that are more difficult to set up correctly, in the end making it harder to find your own Sweet Spot. Many want instant cures, even though they spent over ten years under Sleep Apnea, there are no magic pills, finding what works for you is up to you, it requires effort on your part, but for many Mind Set is the biggest thing that must be overcome, an possible the most difficult!

All I can say about, most of XPAP failure is caused by NOT making a BEST EFFORT. XPAP failure syndrome, is mostly mind over matter, many as so driven that they can't do something, they train their mind that they can't. A sure way to fail at anything you try, don't TRY, DO! Jim


I agree.
What I like to remind people is that they got used to sleeping without air nearly every minute, so they can also get used to treatment.
To quote the legendary xxyzx; "you don't get to choose the therapy that works best for you, only those that don't."

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: AutoPAP 16-20, Ultimate Chin Strap http://sleepapneasolutionsinc.com/
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment:
how to see your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead
how to present your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize
how to post your data https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur

FlyingMoose
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby FlyingMoose on Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:23 pm

I think the common “give it more time” advice isn’t good, I think much better advice would be to keep trying things. With the chin strap, I now apply 3 devices to my head. FYI I’m not up this late, I’m on Philippines time.

TedVPAP
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby TedVPAP on Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:30 pm

FlyingMoose wrote:I think the common “give it more time” advice isn’t good, I think much better advice would be to keep trying things. With the chin strap, I now apply 3 devices to my head. FYI I’m not up this late, I’m on Philippines time.

Agree.
Giving it more time has to have bounds. Many people seem to have too much patients for failure. Seven data points is enough data to draw a conclusion. Fine tuning requires more data but most people are not struggling with fine tuning issues - they are struggling with major issues.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: AutoPAP 16-20, Ultimate Chin Strap http://sleepapneasolutionsinc.com/
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment:
how to see your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead
how to present your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize
how to post your data https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur

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Pugsy
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Pugsy on Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:06 am

FlyingMoose wrote:I think the common “give it more time” advice isn’t good, I think much better advice would be to keep trying things.


It depends on what is going on when we say "give it time".
If the AHI is great...and leaks are well managed and there's nothing that is obviously needing to be improvemend upon then what are you trying to fix by "keep trying things"?
Obviously if there is a serious problem that needs fixing either major leaks or way too many apnea events happening then giving more time without addressing the problem isn't a smart thing.

There is some truth to the "give it time" thing but we don't suggest that unless everything else at least appears optimal.
No amount of time will fix sub optimal pressures or major leaks all by themselves. We know that.
Now just getting used to the alien being stuck on our face and blowing air up our nose...sometimes that simply requires some time for the brain to get oka with its new best friend.

So sometimes "give it time" is the appropriate thing to do. The brain doesn't like to be always subjected to change. It's like nice normal predictable stuff and when people change stuff all the time the brain never gets to where it knows what to expect and its new "normal".
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

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