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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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49er
 
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby 49er on Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:08 am

chunkyfrog wrote:The real scams are alternative treatments.
(Not listed here for space considerations)
We KNOW that cpap/apap works--end of story.


CF,

Pap therapy does not work for everyone in spite of their best efforts. To say that alternative treatments like dental devices, sleep apnea surgeries like the Inspire Procedure and MMA advancement surgery don't work is more about your biases than looking at the facts. It also a scare tactic than can prevent people from looking at necessary alternatives that they desperately need to prevent further decline from sleep apnea.

Of course, everyone should start with pap therapy and do whatever it takes to make it work. Even reputable sleep apnea surgeons will advise that. And when I investigated the Inspire Procedure, which I didn't qualify for, unfortunately, I don't think I would have been considered unless I had tried pap therapy or used a dental device for a least 6 months.

But the question is how many does someone keep trying before moving on to other methods particularly if it is clear they have done everything possible to optimize their therapy? One, five, ten, twenty, thirty?
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Lucyhere on Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:01 am

49er wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:The real scams are alternative treatments.
(Not listed here for space considerations)
We KNOW that cpap/apap works--end of story.


CF,

Pap therapy does not work for everyone in spite of their best efforts. To say that alternative treatments like dental devices, sleep apnea surgeries like the Inspire Procedure and MMA advancement surgery don't work is more about your biases than looking at the facts. It also a scare tactic than can prevent people from looking at necessary alternatives that they desperately need to prevent further decline from sleep apnea.

Of course, everyone should start with pap therapy and do whatever it takes to make it work. Even reputable sleep apnea surgeons will advise that. And when I investigated the Inspire Procedure, which I didn't qualify for, unfortunately, I don't think I would have been considered unless I had tried pap therapy or used a dental device for a least 6 months.


But the question is how many does someone keep trying before moving on to other methods particularly if it is clear they have done everything possible to optimize their therapy? One, five, ten, twenty, thirty?



49er... may I suggest you conserve your energy, not waste it.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Goofproof on Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:53 am

49er wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:The real scams are alternative treatments.
(Not listed here for space considerations)
We KNOW that cpap/apap works--end of story.


CF,

Pap therapy does not work for everyone in spite of their best efforts. To say that alternative treatments like dental devices, sleep apnea surgeries like the Inspire Procedure and MMA advancement surgery don't work is more about your biases than looking at the facts. It also a scare tactic than can prevent people from looking at necessary alternatives that they desperately need to prevent further decline from sleep apnea.

Of course, everyone should start with pap therapy and do whatever it takes to make it work. Even reputable sleep apnea surgeons will advise that. And when I investigated the Inspire Procedure, which I didn't qualify for, unfortunately, I don't think I would have been considered unless I had tried pap therapy or used a dental device for a least 6 months.

But the question is how many does someone keep trying before moving on to other methods particularly if it is clear they have done everything possible to optimize their therapy? One, five, ten, twenty, thirty?


That's the Problem: Best Efforts! Most of the ones that fail using XPAP, play at making a Best Effort, but in reality their mindset is De-Nile. Others get caught up in climbing the ladder of more complex XPAPs, that are more difficult to set up correctly, in the end making it harder to find your own Sweet Spot. Many want instant cures, even though they spent over ten years under Sleep Apnea, there are no magic pills, finding what works for you is up to you, it requires effort on your part, but for many Mind Set is the biggest thing that must be overcome, an possible the most difficult!

All I can say about, most of XPAP failure is caused by NOT making a BEST EFFORT. XPAP failure syndrome, is mostly mind over matter, many as so driven that they can't do something, they train their mind that they can't. A sure way to fail at anything you try, don't TRY, DO! Jim

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby 49er on Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:07 am

Goofproof wrote:
49er wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:The real scams are alternative treatments.
(Not listed here for space considerations)
We KNOW that cpap/apap works--end of story.


CF,

Pap therapy does not work for everyone in spite of their best efforts. To say that alternative treatments like dental devices, sleep apnea surgeries like the Inspire Procedure and MMA advancement surgery don't work is more about your biases than looking at the facts. It also a scare tactic than can prevent people from looking at necessary alternatives that they desperately need to prevent further decline from sleep apnea.

Of course, everyone should start with pap therapy and do whatever it takes to make it work. Even reputable sleep apnea surgeons will advise that. And when I investigated the Inspire Procedure, which I didn't qualify for, unfortunately, I don't think I would have been considered unless I had tried pap therapy or used a dental device for a least 6 months.

But the question is how many does someone keep trying before moving on to other methods particularly if it is clear they have done everything possible to optimize their therapy? One, five, ten, twenty, thirty?


That's the Problem: Best Efforts! Most of the ones that fail using XPAP, play at making a Best Effort, but in reality their mindset is De-Nile. Others get caught up in climbing the ladder of more complex XPAPs, that are more difficult to set up correctly, in the end making it harder to find your own Sweet Spot. Many want instant cures, even though they spent over ten years under Sleep Apnea, there are no magic pills, finding what works for you is up to you, it requires effort on your part, but for many Mind Set is the biggest thing that must be overcome, an possible the most difficult!

All I can say about, most of XPAP failure is caused by NOT making a BEST EFFORT. XPAP failure syndrome, is mostly mind over matter, many as so driven that they can't do something, they train their mind that they can't. A sure way to fail at anything you try, don't TRY, DO! Jim


And you know that how? Have you run a clinical trial to determine this? Or are you just so judgemental that you have up your mind that people don't try hard enough? Is your life so perfect that you have succeeded at everything you have tried?
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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Goofproof on Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:29 am

49er wrote:
Goofproof wrote:
49er wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:The real scams are alternative treatments.
(Not listed here for space considerations)
We KNOW that cpap/apap works--end of story.


CF,

Pap therapy does not work for everyone in spite of their best efforts. To say that alternative treatments like dental devices, sleep apnea surgeries like the Inspire Procedure and MMA advancement surgery don't work is more about your biases than looking at the facts. It also a scare tactic than can prevent people from looking at necessary alternatives that they desperately need to prevent further decline from sleep apnea.

Of course, everyone should start with pap therapy and do whatever it takes to make it work. Even reputable sleep apnea surgeons will advise that. And when I investigated the Inspire Procedure, which I didn't qualify for, unfortunately, I don't think I would have been considered unless I had tried pap therapy or used a dental device for a least 6 months.

But the question is how many does someone keep trying before moving on to other methods particularly if it is clear they have done everything possible to optimize their therapy? One, five, ten, twenty, thirty?


That's the Problem: Best Efforts! Most of the ones that fail using XPAP, play at making a Best Effort, but in reality their mindset is De-Nile. Others get caught up in climbing the ladder of more complex XPAPs, that are more difficult to set up correctly, in the end making it harder to find your own Sweet Spot. Many want instant cures, even though they spent over ten years under Sleep Apnea, there are no magic pills, finding what works for you is up to you, it requires effort on your part, but for many Mind Set is the biggest thing that must be overcome, an possible the most difficult!

All I can say about, most of XPAP failure is caused by NOT making a BEST EFFORT. XPAP failure syndrome, is mostly mind over matter, many as so driven that they can't do something, they train their mind that they can't. A sure way to fail at anything you try, don't TRY, DO! Jim


And you know that how? Have you run a clinical trial to determine this? Or are you just so judgemental that you have up your mind that people don't try hard enough? Is your life so perfect that you have succeeded at everything you have tried?


No need! XXX????, will find you one! I've not succeeded at everything yet, but I've never given up, I'm still making a effort. And NO I'm not up for a Pity Party, so start without me :!: Jim

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby testtakers on Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:03 pm

The Lanky Lefty on Youtube and has a website that is very good for training on CPAP.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby jwong on Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:53 am

I think it is a scam.

First I see comments that cpap is treatable, it is serious. Then I see comments like it is an inexact science.

Those things look like artificial respirators. For use at night. How can you live with that? How can you goto work?

First the doctors don't know, then disability depends on doctors to write you up. What are symptons, what are the cause? what came first the chicken or the egg.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby kteague on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:06 am

jwong wrote:I think it is a scam.
First I see comments that cpap is treatable, it is serious. Then I see comments like it is an inexact science.
Those things look like artificial respirators. For use at night. How can you live with that? How can you goto work?
First the doctors don't know, then disability depends on doctors to write you up. What are symptons, what are the cause? what came first the chicken or the egg.

I doubt there's anything of significance I could add that hasn't already been said over the long life of this thread. But hey, it's after 2am and I'm not sleepy yet, so why not? After you've read this entire thread of good information addressing the scam claim, go read the thread of success stories at the top of the page. It's easy to get the wrong idea about CPAP treatment if you don't keep in mind this forum is frequented by those who have, or have in the past had, questions or issues regarding CPAP treatment. Those who took to it like a duck to water are out there living their well-rested lives with no reason to seek out this forum. The thread of success stories adds some balance. Treat your sleep apnea before it wrecks your health and there will likely be no need to seek disability status. Once the treatment is dialed in and the user has adjusted, sleep should become ... well, normal. As with the rest of your life. Of course there are outliers, our individual complexities and complicit diagnoses make that understandable. Don't assume you will be one of the outliers. Expect that you won't, then cross that bridge if you get there. BTW, are you diagnosed with OSA, symptomatic of it, or just browsing?

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby LSAT on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:06 am

jwong wrote:I think it is a scam.

First I see comments that cpap is treatable, it is serious. Then I see comments like it is an inexact science.

Those things look like artificial respirators. For use at night. How can you live with that? How can you goto work?

First the doctors don't know, then disability depends on doctors to write you up. What are symptons, what are the cause? what came first the chicken or the egg.


The fact remains that if you stop breathing during your sleep, your heart is being deprived of oxygen...whether you think that is serious or not is up to you.
If you have questions, there are people here to answer them...If you are determined that Sleep Apnea is a Scam...then I guess we won't be seeing much of you.
Good Luck.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby TedVPAP on Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:22 am

Goofproof wrote:
49er wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:The real scams are alternative treatments.
(Not listed here for space considerations)
We KNOW that cpap/apap works--end of story.


CF,

Pap therapy does not work for everyone in spite of their best efforts. To say that alternative treatments like dental devices, sleep apnea surgeries like the Inspire Procedure and MMA advancement surgery don't work is more about your biases than looking at the facts. It also a scare tactic than can prevent people from looking at necessary alternatives that they desperately need to prevent further decline from sleep apnea.

Of course, everyone should start with pap therapy and do whatever it takes to make it work. Even reputable sleep apnea surgeons will advise that. And when I investigated the Inspire Procedure, which I didn't qualify for, unfortunately, I don't think I would have been considered unless I had tried pap therapy or used a dental device for a least 6 months.

But the question is how many does someone keep trying before moving on to other methods particularly if it is clear they have done everything possible to optimize their therapy? One, five, ten, twenty, thirty?


That's the Problem: Best Efforts! Most of the ones that fail using XPAP, play at making a Best Effort, but in reality their mindset is De-Nile. Others get caught up in climbing the ladder of more complex XPAPs, that are more difficult to set up correctly, in the end making it harder to find your own Sweet Spot. Many want instant cures, even though they spent over ten years under Sleep Apnea, there are no magic pills, finding what works for you is up to you, it requires effort on your part, but for many Mind Set is the biggest thing that must be overcome, an possible the most difficult!

All I can say about, most of XPAP failure is caused by NOT making a BEST EFFORT. XPAP failure syndrome, is mostly mind over matter, many as so driven that they can't do something, they train their mind that they can't. A sure way to fail at anything you try, don't TRY, DO! Jim


Agree.
This forum is proof as to how many people have ineffective PAP treatment. Only some are willing to make the effort and learn to manage their treatment.

Based on my own experience, the experiences of friends, and following this forum, I think PAP fall into two camps.
Some have no issues. The pressure works, no pain from the nasal mask, no mask leaking issue, no mouth leaking issue. Everything works as planned. The doctor provided the script, the DME provided a machine and mask, the patient responded favorably. All are happy. The patient remains ignorant but that is OK since treatment is working.

The second camp has problems. The doctor only understands pressure, the DME only understands what equipment manufacturers state, and the patient is ignorant. This cycle of change-without-progress can spin for years. The only way to break the cycle is either finding a doctor or DME that has a firsthand understanding of the challenges or the patient finally takes charge and learns. That is where this forum helps so many.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby palerider on Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:04 pm

LSAT wrote:
jwong wrote:I think it is a scam.

First I see comments that cpap is treatable, it is serious. Then I see comments like it is an inexact science.

Those things look like artificial respirators. For use at night. How can you live with that? How can you goto work?

First the doctors don't know, then disability depends on doctors to write you up. What are symptons, what are the cause? what came first the chicken or the egg.


The fact remains that if you stop breathing during your sleep, your heart is being deprived of oxygen...whether you think that is serious or not is up to you.

Not just your heart. Your entire body. But, you can't tell anything to anybody as determinately ignorant as that poster.

All of medicine is an inexact science... because of the one huge variable in the equation, the squidgy meatbag on the end of the hose.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby chunkyfrog on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:08 pm

Most people would like there to be a cure (snip/stitch/done)
Until that is possible, maybe it would be a good idea to do what we can to hang in there.
Cpap has been proven to work. Only cpap has a consistent record of success.
If one choses to go with a lesser solution, good luck to them--they will need it.
Life can be a struggle. This means EFFORT. Sorry if that sounds mean, but that is how it works.

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I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Guest on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:07 pm

jwong wrote:I think it is a scam.

First I see comments that cpap is treatable, it is serious. Then I see comments like it is an inexact science.

Those things look like artificial respirators. For use at night. How can you live with that? How can you goto work?

First the doctors don't know, then disability depends on doctors to write you up. What are symptons, what are the cause? what came first the chicken or the egg.


Your lack of comprehension (and lack of background study/investigation) of this condition and its treatment is stunning.
Sleep apnea is one of the root causes of many of the medical problems people have had. Heart problems, high blood pressure, strokes, diabetes, and a host of others can be traced to sleep apnea, which is the lack of oxygen in your system while you sleep. You stop breathing while you sleep!
To claim CPAP therapy is a scam is beyond stupid. It helps you breathe more normally to keep your oxygen levels where they should be.
You need to do your homework and become more knowledgeable about this therapy and why it is prescribed.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby John Eidsmoe on Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:23 pm

I am considering getting a CPAP and am trying to learn as much as I can about it. I appreciate many of those who have shared their experiences, especially FASTFJR, who showed great courage by coming on this site and sharing his doubts. I also thank those who have been critical of him; you have helped me to see that, for some, CPAP is not a science but a cult. (Before you go into hysterics and accuse me of being "anti-science" or whatever, please note that I said "for some".)

Could it be that CPAP works for some but not for all?

I will continue to explore, and again I thank all of you who have shared your experiences. And for the rest of you cool-aid drinkers, go ahead and call me whatever you want.

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Re: Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Postby Wulfman... on Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:54 pm

John Eidsmoe wrote:I am considering getting a CPAP and am trying to learn as much as I can about it. I appreciate many of those who have shared their experiences, especially FASTFJR, who showed great courage by coming on this site and sharing his doubts. I also thank those who have been critical of him; you have helped me to see that, for some, CPAP is not a science but a cult. (Before you go into hysterics and accuse me of being "anti-science" or whatever, please note that I said "for some".)

Could it be that CPAP works for some but not for all?

I will continue to explore, and again I thank all of you who have shared your experiences. And for the rest of you cool-aid drinkers, go ahead and call me whatever you want.


In all honesty, we don't know for sure. Far too many people give up or quit before they find the right combination that works for them. Or, they have been sabotaged or misled by those in the medical profession. All we can do is try to help people find that right combination by relating our own experiences or those of others who have come here before. The sooner the users take control of their therapy, the sooner they'll achieve "success". There's a wealth of information in the archives if people are willing to do forum searches.

Best wishes,

Den

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