Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
FASTFJR
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:38 pm

Is CPAP a scam of sorts? - my story

Post by FASTFJR » Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:48 pm

I have concluded that CPAP is a scam of sorts. 12 months ago a went to see my
doctor for snoring, he in turn sent me to an nose and throat doc. After seeing that doctor
he send me to a sleep study guy. Long story short my test come back, I have sleep apnea.
A month after the second test using a CPAP unit I get mine own unit. That was about 8 months ago.
I was very good for about 2 months, after that it went down hill. I have the Opti Life unit.
During this whole time Nobody ever suggested that I try a chin strap to hold my mouth
shut which would force me to breath thru my nose. 3 months ago I bought a small chin
strap from ebay and gave it a shot, chin strap alone. Well, what do you know, after a month
I felt great. I went back to the sleep study doctor and asked for another study with
the chin strap alone. At 1st he said no way. It was not until I got 2 other doctors involed
that he OKed it. Last week my sleep study came back 100% normal. What a waste of money
the last year has been. Some times its the simple things that work.

FYI: The doctor and the test are both out of U of Penn

I guess my whole point is why didn't the doctors try the simplest thing 1st. I have talked to 2 other folks that have been down the same road. I paid over $4000.00 out of my pocket over the last year. And it turns out that a $15.00 strap did the trick.


User avatar
tillymarigold
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:01 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Post by tillymarigold » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:02 pm

Probably because, as far as I know, there is absolutely no reason that a chin strap would cause the obstruction in your throat to clear. In fact, I would think it would be the exact opposite of helpful, since it would push your jaw *backwards*, the opposite of the way dental devices work.

And the last thing you want to do if someone has stopped breathing is make them unable to open their mouth. I mean really, that's like saying "I'm not putting my life in enough danger just by having OSA, why don't I also make it impossible to gasp for breath when my brain finally realizes I'm suffocating?"

You're advocating something that has a high probability of being fatal.

_________________
Mask: Swift™ LT For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup system: Zzz-PAP Silent Traveler with humidifier and Aloha mask

FASTFJR
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:38 pm

Post by FASTFJR » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:09 pm

tillymarigold wrote:Probably because, as far as I know, there is absolutely no reason that a chin strap would cause the obstruction in your throat to clear. In fact, I would think it would be the exact opposite of helpful, since it would push your jaw *backwards*, the opposite of the way dental devices work.

And the last thing you want to do if someone has stopped breathing is make them unable to open their mouth. I mean really, that's like saying "I'm not putting my life in enough danger just by having OSA, why don't I also make it impossible to gasp for breath when my brain finally realizes I'm suffocating?"

You're advocating something that has a high probability of being fatal.
I'm not advocating beans. Apperently my obstruction is not large enough to cause a problem with my mouth closed and I'm breathing through my nose. I do not know this for sure, its just a guess. My cpap unit is only set to a pressure of 6 which I understand is pretty low.


User avatar
GumbyCT
Posts: 5789
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:22 pm
Location: CT
Contact:

Post by GumbyCT » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:51 pm

Which chin strap did you use?
GumbyCT

_________________
Humidifier: HC150 Heated Humidifier With Hose, 2 Chambers and Stand
Additional Comments: New users can't remember they can't remember YET!

User avatar
RosemaryB
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Post by RosemaryB » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:00 pm

What was your AHI during the first sleep study? Did you lose any weight? If you have very mild OSA and lost weight or something like that, it's possible that it might have been taken care of that way. It's not real common, but it does happen.


_________________
Mask: Swift™ LT Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Software: Encore Pro Smart Card
Additional Comments: Alternate Mask: Headrest. Pressure 9.0. Aussie Hose, padacheeks, AHI: 0.0 on 12/26/07. Pillow-stuffed backpack=side sleeping & lower AHI.
- Rose

Thread on how I overcame aerophagia
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t3383 ... hagia.html

Thread on my TAP III experience
http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t3705 ... ges--.html

User avatar
Goofproof
Posts: 14000
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Central Indiana, USA

Post by Goofproof » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:08 pm

Was the only symptom you had snoring, if it was you need to go to Sears and get a muffler. Maybe the people who treated you, just needed someone to make their car payments, one thing for certain, a chim strap didn't cure you. and if you had apnea you still aren't cured. Jim

_________________
Mask: ComfortGel Original Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: APAP @15 CM & CMS 50E PULSE OX O2 3L
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment:
how to see your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead
how to present your data https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize
how to post your data https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur

JZ
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:25 pm
Location: Texas

Post by JZ » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:23 pm

I would guess that the reason the doctors did not recommend you try a chin strap first is that there is nothing about a chin strap that would keep the tongue from relaxing back into the throat and blocking the airway. It is even more difficult to imagine a relationship between wearing a chin strap and prevention of central apneas.

If the chin strap works for you, you are fortunate indeed.

User avatar
Snoredog
Posts: 6403
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:09 pm

Post by Snoredog » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:39 pm

My thoughts? I don't believe this story for one minute.

Unniversity of Pennsylvania medical center is a learning institution like many other others around the country.

Anyone who has ever gone to one of these schools for any medical treatment knows it takes much longer than the private sector for the same procedure.

Being a learning institution they would have told you of such and what kind of care you could expect to receive. There is a huge liability against the University if they don't follow like procedures. That includes taking an extensive medical history and exam before you ever get in the lab. Part of that history is "screening" if you have the symptoms of OSA which if present results in the Sleep Study. They just don't give those because you want one or without any of the common findings associated with OSA such as snoring, headaches, night sweats, partner observations, hypertension etc., etc.

Your diagnosis and treatment is then processed step-by-step with a Professor/Doctor having to sign off with each one. Where you may only need 2 visits in the Private sector, you may need 10 going to a learning institution.

Even if you got a Student doctor who didn't know what they were doing, their Professor would have to observe the results and sign off on every step of the way or they simply don't get a grade.

While we can all have good nights and bad nights and a stay at the sleep lab is only 1 night snapshot of your sleep. Depending on allergies and other factors you can easily go one night not having any OSA. But I'd avoid drinking a beer because you can easily end up severe the next night.

The only thing I see being a scam here is maybe your report. All my experience going to UCLA, UCSF, Standford was I got superior service by the best Doctors in the nation, far from being inadequate.

Sorry, but I'm not swallowing this one. if you think it is a scam, black out your personal information and post your PSG results and let us see it, it will show who is scamming who.
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...

User avatar
tillymarigold
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:01 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Post by tillymarigold » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:16 am

FASTFJR wrote:
tillymarigold wrote:Probably because, as far as I know, there is absolutely no reason that a chin strap would cause the obstruction in your throat to clear. In fact, I would think it would be the exact opposite of helpful, since it would push your jaw *backwards*, the opposite of the way dental devices work.

And the last thing you want to do if someone has stopped breathing is make them unable to open their mouth. I mean really, that's like saying "I'm not putting my life in enough danger just by having OSA, why don't I also make it impossible to gasp for breath when my brain finally realizes I'm suffocating?"

You're advocating something that has a high probability of being fatal.
I'm not advocating beans. Apperently my obstruction is not large enough to cause a problem with my mouth closed and I'm breathing through my nose. I do not know this for sure, its just a guess. My cpap unit is only set to a pressure of 6 which I understand is pretty low.
You make a post saying "CPAP IS A SCAM!" and you want me to believe you're not advocating not using CPAP? Please.


_________________
Mask: Swift™ LT For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup system: Zzz-PAP Silent Traveler with humidifier and Aloha mask

User avatar
dieselgal
Posts: 976
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:08 pm

Post by dieselgal » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:38 pm

CPAP isn't a scam. Some of the crap we go through with DME'S can be considered scams but I am with everyone else. I would love to see both your sleep study results.


_________________
MachineMaskHumidifier
I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly

Guest 10

CPAP is a SCAM??

Post by Guest 10 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:19 pm

This post is for FASTFJR
CPAP is not the scam - sometimes how you aquire your machine is a scam.
Sleep Apnea is not an exact science. There is a night to night variability that sometimes puts people in the OSA catagory and sometimes they are normal. Things to consider are sleeping position / alcohol consumption on the day of the study / weight changes / scoring criteria / lab standards etc. Keep in mind as well that one of the results of having sleep apnea is that your throat gets inflammed and swollen. When you use CPAP regularily this goes away and perhaps the second study was performed during this period when your thoat was not all that bad. The problem with the sleep medicine field is that many doctors / labs have different criteria for analysis and diagnosis. One lab may consider treating you and others may not based on one study alone. That is why most labs will require their own results because they may not trust the results from another lab. Standards need to be uniform. The field is working on it. The chin strap is not a treatment for sleep apnea and I am surprised by the results but I would love to see the reports for both studies, I am sure they are not all that different. Keep in mind that sleep apnea is a bonafide disorder that can cause things that call increase your risk of death and CPAP is the treatment choice in most situations. CPAP is not the scam. I have been working in th field for 20 years and the scepticism is rampant and more education (patient / doctor alike) will help reduce the doubters out there.


User avatar
j.a.taylor
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:59 pm
Location: Muskegon, Michigan

Post by j.a.taylor » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:23 pm

Snoredog wrote:My thoughts? I don't believe this story for one minute.

Unniversity of Pennsylvania medical center is a learning institution like many other others around the country.

Anyone who has ever gone to one of these schools for any medical treatment knows it takes much longer than the private sector for the same procedure. . . . Sorry, but I'm not swallowing this one. if you think it is a scam, black out your personal information and post your PSG results and let us see it, it will show who is scamming who.
I have to agree with Snoredog.

I smell a rat, and a story that's not ringing true.
John A. Taylor

AdmiralCougar
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:57 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Post by AdmiralCougar » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:31 pm

I do believe I agree there may be a smell of rat in the air...

Fastfjr, Is it possible your first sleep study you were on your back and the second you stayed on your side? Maybe it's completely positional, just a thought that came to my mind.

Image


Christy

_________________
Software: Encore Pro Smart Card
Additional Comments: Auto BILEVEL Max IPAP=21 Min EPAP=13 Max Pressure Support=8 Spare Mask: F&P Opus 360
Admiral Cougar

User avatar
sleepycarol
Posts: 2485
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Show-Me State
Contact:

Post by sleepycarol » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:45 pm

I know I am NOT stopping my APAP because of this "so called" cure.


I am feeling better and that is what counts. I will continue using my machine as I never want to go back to being so exhausted I can't hardly function!!

I have an aunt that had a friend that had mild apnea and a tennis ball sewed into the back of the pj top stopped the apnea for them as that caused them to sleep on their side and not their back. They didn't have the problem unless they were on their back. Most of us on here NEED our machines!!


_________________
Humidifier: PR System One 50 Series Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Back up mask FlexiFit HC 431 FFM / F & P 100 heated humidifier / SleepyHead

User avatar
roster
Posts: 8208
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:02 pm
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Post by roster » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:19 pm

sleepycarol wrote:........and a tennis ball sewed into the back of the pj top stopped the apnea .........
I tried it and it did not work for me. It made too much of a racket.

_________________
Mask: Hybrid Full Face CPAP Mask with Nasal Pillows and Headgear
Software: Encore Pro Smart Card
Additional Comments: M Series Integrated Humidifier
Rooster
I have a vision that we will figure out an easy way to ensure that children develop wide, deep, healthy and attractive jaws and then obstructive sleep apnea becomes an obscure bit of history.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ycw4uaX ... re=related