Alternative to chin strap for mouth breathing?

[sleepyhead22]

Hi all,

Just started using CPAP about a week ago. I have a big beard so a nasal mask made the most sense to me. Initially tried the resmed p10 but have found the philips under the nose more comfortable. The problem I have with both is that I wake up because I've always been a mouth breather, and the leak from the mouth is uncomfortable. I've tried two different chin straps over the last few days but they are really uncomfortable, seem to push back my jaw in an uncomfortable way.

Anyone here that uses a nasal mask and has found a solution to mouth breathing? I've heard of taping the mouth shut but my beard would make that difficult too. Anyone with experience here?

Thanks

[Iamstumped]

Try the Ruby Red style found on cpap sales sites.

[sleepyhead22]

Try the Ruby Red style found on cpap sales sites.

That's one of the ones I've been using, no good for me.. I'm interested if anyone has found a non-chin strap solution

[SleepGeek]

Many here use a cervical collar to help keep their mouth shut. I found that too hot for me.

I was a mouth breather and found that using a sporting goods mouth guard helpful, believe it or not.
Biting on it keeps you from grinding your teeth which often develops once you start getting REM sleep,

Of course you also have to be conscious of mouth breathing during the daytime also.
Good Luck.

[Pugsy]

Chin straps are meant to be GENTLE reminders to keep the mouth shut but they are often used as vise grips to try to force the mouth shut and this alters the airway/jaw position and simply won't work anyway.

Clamp your teeth together closed position...part your lips slightly....you can breathe just fine that way.
Even with the chin strap clamping the teeth together...the lips can still part.

Taking into account the facial hair.....
The soft cervical collar trick was mentioned and it is an option to help prevent jaw drop that opens the mouth.
There is also the scunci trick. Zonker uses it and it is explained here
viewtopic.php?p=1089718&f=1&t=112758&p= ... s#p1086296
Look for the post from Jay Aitchsee

As for chin straps....preferences are as individualized as people are and what works for one person isn't guaranteed to work for someone else. Just like masks and everything regarding cpap...they all come with a huge YMMV sticker.

If you are just opening your mouth during the night out of habit to breathe....this habit may lessen once the brain learns that it no longer has to open the mouth to gasp for air because apnea events are choking the brain.
I had this habit myself. Nothing wrong with my nasal breathing because nose was clear but I had developed the habit of mouth breathing somewhat due to apnea events and just gasping in general. It took me about 3 months to break the habit (more or less) and I did do the tape thing because I figured out real quick that chin straps wouldn't work for me after trying several. Now after 13 years...yeah maybe occasional mouth opening but not for long and not often and more importantly it doesn't wake me up so I just don't care. I haven't taped my mouth shut on a regular basis since Aug 2009.

So if your nose is clear....you should eventually hopefully be able to keep the mouth shut at least the majority of the time.

Now if your mouth is coming open because it NEEDS to come open from nasal congestion...we have a different discussion.

[zonker]

Anyone here that uses a nasal mask and has found a solution to mouth breathing? I've heard of taping the mouth shut but my beard would make that difficult too. Anyone with experience here?

Thanks

i rock a beard as well, so mouth tape is right out. i use a firm foam cervical collar. these can be had at amazon. they can also be found in the home care section of any number of drugstores. think of the aisle where one finds knee braces or canes.

i use it conjunction with jay's scunci system which he talks about here-
viewtopic.php?p=1089718&f=1&t=112758&p= ... s#p1086296

both work a treat and have lowered my ahi by a full point. i've modded jay's original method. if interested, let me know and i'll blather on about it.

eta: just noticed that pugsy linked the thread.
(i really need to read ALL the replies before replying!)

[sleepyhead22]

Many here use a cervical collar to help keep their mouth shut. I found that too hot for me.

I was a mouth breather and found that using a sporting goods mouth guard helpful, believe it or not.
Biting on it keeps you from grinding your teeth which often develops once you start getting REM sleep,

Of course you also have to be conscious of mouth breathing during the daytime also.
Good Luck.

Interesting you mention a mouth guard. I was thinking this in conjunction with a chin strap worn not too tight might help. Part of the discomfort with the chin strap is feeling the teeth against each other. Have you tried more than one brand of mouth guard? Or any random one ok?

[sleepyhead22]

Anyone here that uses a nasal mask and has found a solution to mouth breathing? I've heard of taping the mouth shut but my beard would make that difficult too. Anyone with experience here?

Thanks

i rock a beard as well, so mouth tape is right out. i use a firm foam cervical collar. these can be had at amazon. they can also be found in the home care section of any number of drugstores. think of the aisle where one finds knee braces or canes.

i use it conjunction with jay's scunci system which he talks about here-
viewtopic.php?p=1089718&f=1&t=112758&p= ... s#p1086296

both work a treat and have lowered my ahi by a full point. i've modded jay's original method. if interested, let me know and i'll blather on about it.

eta: just noticed that pugsy linked the thread.
(i really need to read ALL the replies before replying!)

I do a lot of side sleeping... doesn't the cervical collar make that difficult?

I will try the scunci idea though. Seems easy enough

[sleepyhead22]

Chin straps are meant to be GENTLE reminders to keep the mouth shut but they are often used as vise grips to try to force the mouth shut and this alters the airway/jaw position and simply won't work anyway.

Clamp your teeth together closed position...part your lips slightly....you can breathe just fine that way.
Even with the chin strap clamping the teeth together...the lips can still part.

Taking into account the facial hair.....
The soft cervical collar trick was mentioned and it is an option to help prevent jaw drop that opens the mouth.
There is also the scunci trick. Zonker uses it and it is explained here
viewtopic.php?p=1089718&f=1&t=112758&p= ... s#p1086296
Look for the post from Jay Aitchsee

As for chin straps....preferences are as individualized as people are and what works for one person isn't guaranteed to work for someone else. Just like masks and everything regarding cpap...they all come with a huge YMMV sticker.

If you are just opening your mouth during the night out of habit to breathe....this habit may lessen once the brain learns that it no longer has to open the mouth to gasp for air because apnea events are choking the brain.
I had this habit myself. Nothing wrong with my nasal breathing because nose was clear but I had developed the habit of mouth breathing somewhat due to apnea events and just gasping in general. It took me about 3 months to break the habit (more or less) and I did do the tape thing because I figured out real quick that chin straps wouldn't work for me after trying several. Now after 13 years...yeah maybe occasional mouth opening but not for long and not often and more importantly it doesn't wake me up so I just don't care. I haven't taped my mouth shut on a regular basis since Aug 2009.

So if your nose is clear....you should eventually hopefully be able to keep the mouth shut at least the majority of the time.

Now if your mouth is coming open because it NEEDS to come open from nasal congestion...we have a different discussion.

My mouth definitely opens out of habit and not need. Fluticasone (flonase) has helped a lot with my nasal congestion.

I feel clenching my teeth during sleep is very uncomfortable though. Even during the day clenching the teeth is not comfortable. May have something to do with my orthodontic misalignment. I will try the mouth guard trick sleepgeek mentioned. The scunci idea seems easy enough so I'll try that too. Is the cervical collar comfortable with side sleepers?

[Pugsy]

Is the cervical collar comfortable with side sleepers?

I am pretty sure we probably have some side sleepers here who use the cervical collar to help keep the chin up.
They will have to speak up for themselves. I have never used a cervical collar (thankfully never needed to and to be honest way back when I started therapy it was really never mentioned as an option...that option came later) so I can't really call on any personal experience to comment on how comfortable or not the collar might be in any position really.

It's really another one of those YMMV things that we talk about all the time.
What someone does well with the next person might just hate with a passion. It's the life of anything related to cpap.

Since I personally have a personal preference of "as little on my face and head as possible" it is doubtful that I would have been a happy camper with the cervical collar thing. Way more "stuff" on me than I would be able to tolerate but others do very well with it and I am very happy that it works for them. Just because I have a problem with something doesn't mean the rest of the world will have a problem with it....and conversely just because I am a happy camper with something doesn't mean the rest of the world is expected to be happy campers as well.

Each individual just has to try whatever to be able to learn which way their personal needs lean.
Though I will say that if I had known about the Scunci thing way back when I was taping my mouth shut that I would have for sure at least given it a try. It's cheap and easy experiment to try and I always leaned towards anything that was cheap and easy to try. I am the queen of cheap.

[zonker]

I do a lot of side sleeping... doesn't the cervical collar make that difficult?

i side sleep with it and have no trouble. can't speak for everyone though. what works for me may not necessarily work for thee.

they cost around 10 bucks so relatively inexpensive to find out.

good luck!

[csmlet]

I have tried about all the different options for mouth breathing and finally saw the collar mentioned on this forum. As was previously stated the collar is inexpensive and it works really well for me. I start out on my back but then flop from side to side during the night and never wake up with a dry mouth. Get the one that is adjustable and make sure it will fit your neck, as with most everything all necks are not created the same, some or longer than others.

[Kiralynx]

Since I deal with a certain amount of claustrophobia, neither a cervical collar nor a chin strap worked for me. Besides, too dang HOT here in New Orleans.

So I took a 4" diameter cylinder of closed-cell foam about six inches long and drilled a hole down the center of the cylinder. I stuck a somewhat stretched out mask strap through the hole, and then wrapped the foam in wicking fabric. Strap goes around my neck and holds the cylinder under my chin. I sleep with my head tucked a little (side sleeper) and the foam keeps my mouth closed. I call it my "brandy keg". Ala St. Bernard dogs and same.

This has worked for me for 14 years.