Quantcast

Bookmark and Share
General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41546
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Pugsy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:23 pm

As requested a new thread for discussion about various devices and/or programs that might be used to help us evaluate our sleep stages or particularly for me sleep stages.

I just got a new FitBit Charge 2 which uses heart rate to help distinguish sleep stages in their sleep reports. I just now got it so haven't had time to even unpack it and set it up.
There is some science behind the reasoning from what I have read...now just how accurate it might be is something yet to be proven to me.
I have used the regular FitBit and it also gave a sleep stage report of sorts but it was based solely on movement by using an accelerometer and moving around in bed doesn't mean awake and not moving doesn't mean asleep...so I always took what it said with a grain of salt.

So I will be reporting back on my experiences with the FitBit Charge 2.
RobySue has had one for quite some time and she told me that she felt it fairly accurately depicted the awake vs asleep time as well as probable sleep stages. In fact she encouraged me to get one quite some time ago but I procrastinated due to cost but with recent sale promotions...I saved 1/3 off and got one for $99 at Amazon since Amazon is my favorite go to place for online shopping.

In the meantime feel free to use this thread for various discussions about what you are using to evaluate your sleep or ask others what they might be using or whatever. This thread isn't limited to only FitBit discussion.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

USMCVet
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:46 pm
Gender: None specified

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby USMCVet on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:27 pm

I have the Fitbit ionic and use it to track my sleep. I think part of the equation is if it doesn't sense moving for a certain amount of time it assumes your sleeping.

I was actually wearing mine during my sleep study. My sleep study said I was sleeping for 3.6 hours and my Fitbit said I slept for 5.5 hours. I tried not to move a lot during study so I could hopefully sleep more so I assume that's why it was off by about 2 hours.

_________________
Machine Mask Humidifier 
Machine setting: Auto 6 to 20

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41546
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Pugsy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:33 pm

USMCVet wrote:I have the Fitbit ionic and use it to track my sleep. I think part of the equation is if it doesn't sense moving for a certain amount of time it assumes your sleeping.

I was actually wearing mine during my sleep study. My sleep study said I was sleeping for 3.6 hours and my Fitbit said I slept for 5.5 hours. I tried not to move a lot during study so I could hopefully sleep more so I assume that's why it was off by about 2 hours.


Yeah and that's why devices that rely on the accelerometer thing aren't necessarily all that accurate and must be taken with a grain of salt.
I figured that out real quick one day when my FitBit congratulated me on "walking" 7,736 steps one day and all I was doing was mowing the yard and turning the steering wheel on the riding lawn mower.

Not moving doesn't always mean that a person is asleep and moving (tossing and turning) doesn't always mean someone is awake.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

User avatar
TASmart
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:23 pm
Location: Eugene, OR
Gender: Male

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby TASmart on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:55 pm

I have read that the Fitbit algorithm takes into account movement and heart rate patterns to determine sleep and sleep stages. I have one and wear it most nights. I have no clue how accurate it really is, but it gives me a basis to ponder from. One of the more interesting things I have noticed is that according to some research I read about in an unknown place, pink noise is claimed to increase rem sleep. I have a program that generates pink noise and running that program instead of the fan noise I usually sleep to does show increased REM and I have more vivid dreams when using the pink noise.

_________________
Machine Mask 
All posts reflect my own opinion based on my experience and reading.
Your mileage may vary
Past performance is no guarantee of future results
Consult with your own physician as people very

User avatar
Jay Aitchsee
 
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: Southwest Florida
Gender: Male

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:56 pm

Some of have and are still using (occasionally) a Zeo, one of the best home sleep monitors ever, IMO. I picked up a fully functional Bedside model off eBay a while back for 35$. And speaking of, I see Resmed's S+ selling for less than 30$. I don't know about the accuracy of the S+, but it looks interesting. At that price, I may have to pick one up to try. As a side note, ResMed bought the rights to Zeo and it looks likes the S+ uses a very similar format, but different technology.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: DreamWear Nasal Mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead 9.8, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video
Last edited by Jay Aitchsee on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41546
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Pugsy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:08 pm

TASmart wrote: I have more vivid dreams when using the pink noise.


You do understand that we aren't supposed to remember dreaming unless we wake up during or immediately after one and thus remembering a lot of dreams isn't necessarily considered a good thing to be doing.
And we can dream in any sleep stage not necessarily in REM.

Had ever heard about "pink" noise. I need to get out more often. :lol:

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

User avatar
Jay Aitchsee
 
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: Southwest Florida
Gender: Male

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:15 pm

Pugsy wrote:You do understand that we aren't supposed to remember dreaming unless we wake up during or immediately after one and thus remembering a lot of dreams isn't necessarily considered a good thing to be doing.And we can dream in any sleep stage not necessarily in REM.

For me, remembering dreams seems to correlate with more fragmented sleep and a higher CAI.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: DreamWear Nasal Mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead 9.8, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41546
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Pugsy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:26 pm

Jay Aitchsee wrote: I don't know about the accuracy of the S+, but it looks interesting. At that price, I may have to pick one up to try.


They have certainly come down in price from what they were originally.
I have always had my misgivings about any gadget sitting on the night table looking and me and having it figure out if I am asleep or not much less sleep stages. :lol: The accelerometer stuff is iffy enough but just having a little gadget looking at me and measuring lord knows what just doesn't seem possible to be any sort of accurate without it even touching me. It's hard enough to measure sleep even when the gadget doo dad has something touching us.

I remember the Zeo and in fact someone loaned me theirs so I could try one out (I never wanted to fork over the cash and that was way back before the company went under and prices were a lot higher) and it seemed to be probably fairly accurate as far as it went but then we had nothing really to verify anything with and my "scientist" mind always wants verification of some sort if possible.
We had to trust the manufacturers in saying that they verified by using Zeo and PSG at the same time.

I have done some reading on the FitBit thing and I would assume that they (FitBit people) have already done the research to back up their claims on accuracy because they would know that if they didn't do the research someone else would be quick to jump on the bandwagon and prove them wrong just because they like doing that sort of thing.

Wouldn't it be cool if someone came up with an affordable and accurate home PSG for us peons to buy and use and interpret? Not so much for the sleep apnea side of things but from the sleep quality side of things since sleep or lack of is such big business.
Then we could play scientist all we want and compare PSG data to the data these gadgets give us to see just how accurate or inaccurate they are.

Some how or other I always look at the "proof of accuracy" offered by the gadget makers as a bit dubious...but that's the cynic in me.
Like of course I am going to tell people my gadget is accurate because I want to sell a boat load of them. :lol:

If you ever try the ResMed S thing and compare it to your Zeo let me know the results please. I just never was interested enough to want to buy one myself.

My FitBit purchase wasn't just for the sleep evaluation thing. My old FitBit up and died and I have been experiencing some heart rate stuff that I want to watch more closely and it just isn't always convenient to dig out the blood pressure thingy I have to check my pulse rate and doing it by hand by counting is a bit difficult since I don't have a watch (nor do I want one).
So I figured what the heck, get a new gadget to play with and see what it shows or doesn't show me.
Plus now I have a watch that does a ton of stuff. :lol: :lol:

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

User avatar
Jay Aitchsee
 
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 12:47 pm
Location: Southwest Florida
Gender: Male

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Jay Aitchsee on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:45 pm

Pugsy wrote:If you ever try the ResMed S thing and compare it to your Zeo let me know the results please. I just never was interested enough to want to buy one myself.

Yeah, one of these days I'll have to fire up the ol' sleep lab - apap, pulse oximeter, IR camera, Zeo, and maybe an S+. Problem is, now that I'm sleeping so much better, I don't have much motivation. And synching all those clocks - worst bunch of timekeepers, ever. Anyway, if I get that S+, I let you all know what I think.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: DreamWear Nasal Mask, P=7.0, EPR3, ResScan 5.3, SleepyHead 9.8, Windows 10, ZEO, CMS50F, Infrared Video

Rob K
 
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:22 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Rob K on Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:48 pm

I have a Withings Aura sleep monitor and alarm clock.

One of the nice things is that you don't have to wear anything on your body. The sleep sensor is an inflated pad that goes under your mattress and monitors your heart rate and movements. Mine's under my mattress topper which is an inch or two thick. It seems pretty accurate in keeping track of pulse and movements. I found that my heart rate will get down into the mid 40's when sleeping.

It also monitors sleep stages, ambient noise, ambient light and room temperature. One thing that it doesn't do that I wish it did is monitor humidity. It seems to keep track of noise, light and room temperature pretty well. The data definitely shows that I do not sleep well when the room temp is in the 70's. If it hit's mid seventies I can't sleep. As for keeping track of sleep stages it doesn't seem all that accurate; same as any other so called sleep stage monitor on the market. It seems decent at keeping track of wake or sleep, but not so much with the sleep stage details. How would I really know though, since I'm asleep. If it is accurate, then holy canoly my sleep is messed up. lol

The alarm clock is supposed to wake you up during a light sleep stage. It gently nudges you awake with blue light and soothing sounds that very slowly increase with intensity and volume. It's supposed to be far more glorious than waking with a regular alarm clock, but I haven't noticed. How would it wake you during a light stage of sleep if the sleep staging is not accurate? Sleep stage monitoring seems to be a bunch of hype to me. Sounds good, but right now seems to be only accurate with lab equipment.

It can play your music play lists or internet radio also. You do need a wifi internet connection and a phone to use the app for programing and looking at data. It has USB ports so I think it will charge a phone.

The alarm clock also has some getting to sleep red light and soothing sound programs. I don't use any of this stuff, because when I hit the pillow I want to go to sleep not listen to things or see any light.

It also serves as a bedside lamp with adjustments for white light intensity. The display is adjustable for light intensity also.

The support software is definitely lacking. Way to basic for my analytical mind. Maybe I expect to much from a consumer product. Its' a bedroom not a sleep lab, right?

You can program seven days of alarms using your phone if you like. It will repeat every week also. If your schedule is routine you really only need to set your alarm program once. No need to remember to set the alarm when going to bed since it is automatic. You don't have to do anything at all when going to bed, just climb in and sleep. You do have to shut off the alarm when you wake. Actually I think it shuts off by itself if you let it go for a while after you get out of bed. The Aura is nice in that you don't even know it's there when your going to sleep.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: PR System One 60 Series Heated Tube Humidifier with Heated Tube
Additional Comments: Sleepyhead software

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41546
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Pugsy on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:00 pm

Quick report on the FitBit Charge 2 experiment.
Not a very happy camper here. :lol:
Not all that easy to setup from my perspective and took a lot of online research (there are no setup instructions with the unit itself except a little card telling you to go to fitbit.com/setup.

Finally got it done and found out I had to update the unit's software and that took like 25 tries to get it done.
Not particularly user friendly and I didn't have a 10 year old computer expert in my house to help me out. :lol: :lol:

Any rate...it now seems to work and I slept with it and the starting and stopping times seemed to be fairly close but that's all I got.
I didn't get the sleep stage graphs.
I get a message that I need at least 3 hours of sleep to get the sleep stage breakdown...and this message shows up right under the sleep time of 7 hours and 17 minutes. WTH???
Anyway...more online research later when I am less aggravated and have more time.

Heart rate works which was one of the things I really wanted to have the ability to keep a close eye on...been having rapid pulse issues and I wanted to be able to know just how rapid.
And yes...on the list to discus with my PCP this coming next week at my regular appointment.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41546
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Pugsy on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:11 am

Second night with the FitBit Charge 2 and it decided to give me the sleep stages this morning. I guess my cussing it out yesterday put the fear of god in it. :lol:

Short night last night because we went out and didn't get home until about 12:30 AM and I had to feed the critters and some stuff before I could get to bed which was shortly after 1 AM. This thing is surprisingly accurate in terms of when it senses I probably fall asleep. I spent maybe 5minutes on my iPad in bed after crawling into bed at approx 1:07 (I checked clock when I crawled into bed). I didn't spend much time awake after I put the iPad down..maybe couple of minutes or so. I never have trouble falling asleep at the beginning of the night.
And it shows one short awake period about an hour or so before final wake up and I do remember it. I woke up and it was still dark outside and I thought about getting up and decided to try to get back to sleep and I fell back to sleep.

I don't tell it anything about going to bed...It senses this stuff all on its own. Pretty cool little gadget.

Image

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41546
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby Pugsy on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:35 am

And here's the SleepyHead report from last night to go with the FitBit sleep report.
I forgot to include the flow limitation graph but it wasn't very exciting. Note the leak line last night....nearly broke my arm patting myself on the back. :lol: :lol: :lol: This leak line is extremely good for me.


Image

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

JDS74
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: South Carolina
Gender: None specified

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby JDS74 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:43 am

I have two devices for monitoring sleep: Microsoft Band 2 and Fitbit Charge 2.
The Band 2 is now on the shelf (sigh) as it is starting to come apart and you can see the wiring in the wrist band.
However, it was dead on when tracking asleep vs awake. I have a medical problem that wakes me up every 60 minutes +- and also a blood pressure issue. For a while, I'd strap on my Omron BP monitor, strap on my Band 2 and go to bed. Every time I would wake up, I'd punch the BP button, take a measurement, and go back to sleep. In the morning, I'd download all of the data and compare events and times. Whenever the Band 2 said I was awake, there was a corresponding BP measurement - dead on. BTW if you take blood pressure medicine, it's a great way to look at what is happening during the night when you expect the BP to be lower. My original dose dropped me down to pretty low.

Date________Time______SyS__Dia__HR___Status
2/11/2016_12:45:39 AM__68___ 51__77___Awake from sleep
2/11/2016_01:21:36 AM__78___51__74___Awake from sleep
2/11/2016 _01:48:50 AM__71___48__71___Awake from sleep

Needless to say, I titrated to dosage to keep things from dropping through the floor.

I'm now using the Fitbit Charge 2 for the same function and the correlation is pretty good but not as accurate and the Band 2. It does record steps during the night in fairly low numbers. Just a guess that it is seeing something related to my RLS/PLMD leg movements and records them as steps. The Band 2 never did that.

It's too bad that Microsoft got out of the fitness band business because theirs was significantly better that any of the competition.
I'm thinking about an Apple Watch or the Fitbit Ionic as a replacement.

_________________
Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask
Humidifier: PR System One 60 Series Heated Tube Humidifier with Heated Tube
Additional Comments: EverFlo Q 3.0 Liters O2 PR 960 ASV
Oracle 452 Lessons Learned Updated
AutoSV 960 with HC150 extra humidifier and Hibernite heated hose
Settings: EPAP Min-13.0, EPAP Max-17, PS Min-7, PS Max-12, Max Pressure-25, Rate-Auto, Biflex-1.
Sleepyhead and Encore Pro 2.17.

User avatar
StuUnderPressure
 
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:34 am
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Devices/programs to help evaluate sleep status

Postby StuUnderPressure on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:43 pm

Interesting thread / subject.
Thanks for starting it Pugsy

Besides the ResMed S+, the Fitbit Charge 2, and the Fitbit Iconic already previously mentioned, I see there is also a Fitbit Alta HR

Costco has the Fitbit Charge 2 and the Fitbit Alta HR, but not the Fibit Iconic.
Costco does not have the ResMed S+

Amazon has all of the above, including the ResMed S+

I have not used any of the above - but I do look forward to the reports of those of you who have.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: Mirage Activa™ LT Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Respironics Deluxe Chinstrap 3"
In Windows 8.1 Professional 64 bit - ResScan Version 5.8.0.9556 - ResScan Clinician's Manual Version 5.8

SD Card Formatter 5.0 https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/format ... index.html

Next

Return to CPAP and Sleep Apnea (CLICK HERE TO READ POSTS)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: edfreeman, Goofproof, Mr. REM and 36 guests