The difference a mask can make!

[MaxINTJ]

After a miserable 3-4 weeks of the Amara View, ASV, great data, and crappy sleep, I went back to my old system.

With the Dreamwear mask and CPAP (lower pressures than the ASV) I still woke in the night, but the Dreamwear is hardly noticeable. I went right back to sleep and slept until the alarm - with the mask on.

I woke up feeling crappy (no change with either machine or mask) and am still drinking a lot of coffee this morning, but it was nice to sleep like I wanted, not have the mask knocked out of place, didn't have the hose wrapped around my neck, didn't lay on the hose, and did not get woken up by the mask.

I fully expect my data to show crappy sleep, but at least my all day feeling crappy will be backed up by crappy sleeping data all night.

[AMESS]

Somebody- plunk their magic twanger and help this guy out.

[MaxINTJ]

After a miserable 3-4 weeks of the Amara View, ASV, great data, and crappy sleep, I went back to my old system.

With the Dreamwear mask and CPAP (lower pressures than the ASV) I still woke in the night, but the Dreamwear is hardly noticeable. I went right back to sleep and slept until the alarm - with the mask on.

I woke up feeling crappy (no change with either machine or mask) and am still drinking a lot of coffee this morning, but it was nice to sleep like I wanted, not have the mask knocked out of place, didn't have the hose wrapped around my neck, didn't lay on the hose, and did not get woken up by the mask.

I fully expect my data to show crappy sleep, but at least my all day feeling crappy will be backed up by crappy sleeping data all night.

=========

stop worrying about data and useless numbers

how do you feel
how low was your spO2

do what makes you feel better

If you actually read what I posted, you would know how I feel.

So far, nothing makes me feel better. I feel like crap and have a headache. I do not monitor my O2.

[Uncle_Bob]

stop worrying about data and useless numbers

how low was your spO2

So sp02 is not data or a useless number then?

[MaxINTJ]

you should monitor your spo2

that means a lot more than any AHI

what were your other 2 medical issues
have you seen a heart and lung specialist

have you had a full physical with COMPLETE LABS

do you want to get better
or would you rather whine

you only sleep 5 hours at night
and refuse to take naps
and drink way too much coffee
you have to be an idiot to think a cpap will fix that

I have had a complete physical and I have no other issues affecting my general health, and definitely none that affect my sleep.

I sleep 6-7 per night BUT it always pretty crappy.

Taking naps affects sleep at night negatively.

Less coffee means even less done and an extra hazardous driver on the road.

[Gryphon]

stop worrying about data and useless numbers

how low was your spO2

So sp02 is not data or a useless number then?

==============

WTF

spo2 is a very valuable metric
but most xpaps dont measure that

all they give us is a useless AHI number

He was referencing your contradiction. You said to stop worrying about "data" and useless numbers. [As if to say that all data and numbers are a waste of time and only your own intuition and how you feel each day matters]

But in the same breath, figuratively speaking, you ask for data.

You deal in a lot of contradictions at least in the way you talk.

Everything is useless or worthless until you say it isn't.
You've mentioned multiple times that "my opinions are always correct" well duh... my opinions are always correct too. Everyone's opinions are always correct because they're opinions. But you like to state your opinions as fact. That they are absolutely irrefutable and if some one else comes along and offers an opinion that divers from yours you have a tendency to go off the deep end as if what they said was blasphemous.



You do realize that AHI in it self isn't useless... I mean it's better then nothing. As well spo2 isn't the end all and be all either.

You could have 0 De-Sats but still have horrible life altering fragmented sleep because of sleep apnea. Every one is different. You can't hang your hat on just one metric like it's the magic gold standard.

The reason we fall back on AHI so much on this forum is that everyone can get this number simply by looking at there machine. No additional hardware to buy or setup. Easy peasy. Now if people are still having issues there still lot's of older members on this forum that will recommend spo2 or other methods of gathering data but... You use what you have first. Especially when your trying to help a newbie who your trying not to overwhelm with even more gizmos and things to worry about.

I think that all data to a point has value. The more the merrier in some cases as long as it's not distracting.

I don't understand this anti AHI campaign.

Gryphon

[nicholasjh1]

you should monitor your spo2

that means a lot more than any AHI

what were your other 2 medical issues
have you seen a heart and lung specialist

have you had a full physical with COMPLETE LABS

do you want to get better
or would you rather whine

you only sleep 5 hours at night
and refuse to take naps
and drink way too much coffee
you have to be an idiot to think a cpap will fix that

I have had a complete physical and I have no other issues affecting my general health, and definitely none that affect my sleep.

I sleep 6-7 per night BUT it always pretty crappy.

Taking naps affects sleep at night negatively.

Less coffee means even less done and an extra hazardous driver on the road.

Falling asleep on the road? Personally I'd go back to your doc, tell him that, and if he says no to the Provigil again, tell him you'll send him the bill when you get in an accident and sue him for malpractice (okay maybe not that dramatic), but that's exactly what provigil prevents... You might not have narcolepsy per say but it might as well be... and your cpap usages qualifies you for provigil anyway. And it's not going to make your already crappy sleep from what ever sleep disordered issue you have "worse".

[MaxINTJ]

you might need modafanil to help you reset your body clock to sleep good at the normal time

you mentioned two other major health issues
and although you claim they dont affect sleep that is just your opinion
for sure your stress and emotions are affecting your sleep a lot

I go to bed at a normal time and get up in time to get to work. My sleep schedule is fine.

Stress and emotions regarding the other issues - if any exists - is not causing me to wake in the night and I have no problem going to sleep or going back to sleep - as long as I'm not wearing a FFM.

RE: drugs

Good idea for forcing the physician's hand, thank you

[Gryphon]

There was contradiction because you said "All data was a waste of time" but then you contradicted your self and asked for SP02 Data. That's the very definition of contradiction.



My point is that "Most people" have no way of measuring SPO2... they start out with AHI. Most people are "NEVER" going to go out and purchase a recording oximiter. Heck you your self, have famously told people that at least 40% of people don't even get their XPAP to work anyway and give up. So if you understand that little statistic, what makes you think your going to convince everyone who comes to this forum to go out and spend more money on yet another device that they have to mess with to record yet more info that they may or may not understand.

I'm a big proponent of oximetry testing... I'm the one who's stated that I think every man, woman, and child who has even the most basic of health care should get a multi night SPO2 test done at least once every 5 to 10 years. Wearing a recording oximiter is such a cheap and non invasive test. But if you catch de-sats then you know something is very wrong and you can take steps to fix it.

I'll also say that almost ALL "XPAP" machines don't test O2 because they don't have the sensors for it. My ResMed unit has a port for it - but even the representative from ResMed had to look into it to even confirm, because almost no one uses it and it's insanely expensive for what it is. It's an Add On.

If someone is feeling great then a low AHI is at least one metric they can look at to gauge their treatment.

If however some one is still feeling like crap all the time but with great AHI score then I agree other methods of data gathering must be brought in. That doesn't mean AHI is worthless. It's just one of many data sets.

Part of what aggravates me about what you say (aside from the nastiness and insults) is your too extreme about things. Like saying "information" is worthless because you don't like it. Your not doing a good job about phrasing your Opinions as such... You should say "I feel that AHI is worthless" or that "I think AHI isn't very helpful because..." All information has a use.

How do you propose we mesure "RDI"
AHI is important.
SPO2 is also important... but most people don't, can't, or WON'T be able to measure it.

Nether AHI, SPO2, alone or even together will tell you why people are having bad sleep if the numbers are low.
That's why they have all those other cool connections in a sleep lab.

You seam to hate Sleep Lab tests. but I can't have most of the equipment you find in a quality sleep lab in my home. I can't track brainwave activity and facel muscle movement and most of the other things that they test for in a lab. Lab tests can sometimes cause issues because the different environment can alter the data, we may not sleep the same way in the lab as we would at home.

Take home tests record a lot of good information, and have the benefit of being done in your home in your own bed were your comfortable etc... But they have their limits as well.

Some one with a take home test could test negative for Apnea but have a horrible case of restless lim/leg syndrome that doesn't get caught by the take home test. They then go on for years or the rest of their lives with fragmented sleep not understanding why.

[Guest10]

Xxyz you sure talk a load of crap

[wm_hess]

Falling asleep on the road? Personally I'd go back to your doc, tell him that, and if he says no to the Provigil again, tell him you'll send him the bill when you get in an accident and sue him for malpractice (okay maybe not that dramatic), but that's exactly what provigil prevents... You might not have narcolepsy per say but it might as well be... and your cpap usages qualifies you for provigil anyway. And it's not going to make your already crappy sleep from what ever sleep disordered issue you have "worse".

Be careful of what you ask for. From PubMedCentral (PMC) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1495589/

...In some situations, physicians have an ethical obligation to the safety and welfare of the community to report such disabilities to the authorities.....

...Patients who may be considered for revocation or limitation of driving privileges include patients with an ongoing or persistent impairment such as visual defects or dementia, or patients with a propensity for episodic disability such as epilepsy, cardiac dysrhythmias, or substance dependency...

...Patients diagnosed with sleep apnea syndrome are 2 to 6 times as likely than healthy control subjects to be involved in a MVA...


From the state of Nevada's site http://adsd.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/adsdnv ... riving.pdf

While the url indicates it's for dementia, the wording itself says medically impaired

12% of states physicians are required to report individuals who are cognitively, or medically
impaired to the DMV (California, Delaware, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, and Pennsylvania). It
was not clear however, if all of these states have streamlined systems that allow medical
professionals to communicate directly with the DMV through a common data base or
standardized system. Rather many have this communication take place through mailing or faxing
in a form that lists the individual’s impairment, and the medical professional’s opinion.
50% of the remaining states (not including states listed above), encourage or allow physician
reporting, but do not make it mandatory. This reporting is done through the use of anonymous, or
non-anonymous reporting of individuals as being inept to operate a motor vehicle (Alabama,
Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky,
Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico,
North Carolina, North Dakota, Rhode Island, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming).

You threaten your doctor with potential medical malpractice in the future, and he might just have your license medically revoked.

-Bill

[chunkyfrog]

.

[chunkyfrog]

.

[Grace~~~]

...assholes and angels alike can (get sick / have apnea / try cpap), I suppose?

I love that little sheep on sleepyhead with the mask on!
In honor of all of our diversities this Blessed Christmas Season it would be so beautiful to send out the diverse Noah's Ark with all passenger animals wearing cpapmasks ... and definitely *Sleepyhead Sheep* on board. Does Noah's Ark have it's own holiday?



11/17/17

good day, right? ~~~

[nicholasjh1]

Falling asleep on the road? Personally I'd go back to your doc, tell him that, and if he says no to the Provigil again, tell him you'll send him the bill when you get in an accident and sue him for malpractice (okay maybe not that dramatic), but that's exactly what provigil prevents... You might not have narcolepsy per say but it might as well be... and your cpap usages qualifies you for provigil anyway. And it's not going to make your already crappy sleep from what ever sleep disordered issue you have "worse".

Be careful of what you ask for. From PubMedCentral (PMC) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1495589/

...In some situations, physicians have an ethical obligation to the safety and welfare of the community to report such disabilities to the authorities.....

...Patients who may be considered for revocation or limitation of driving privileges include patients with an ongoing or persistent impairment such as visual defects or dementia, or patients with a propensity for episodic disability such as epilepsy, cardiac dysrhythmias, or substance dependency...

...Patients diagnosed with sleep apnea syndrome are 2 to 6 times as likely than healthy control subjects to be involved in a MVA...


From the state of Nevada's site http://adsd.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/adsdnv ... riving.pdf

While the url indicates it's for dementia, the wording itself says medically impaired

12% of states physicians are required to report individuals who are cognitively, or medically
impaired to the DMV (California, Delaware, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, and Pennsylvania). It
was not clear however, if all of these states have streamlined systems that allow medical
professionals to communicate directly with the DMV through a common data base or
standardized system. Rather many have this communication take place through mailing or faxing
in a form that lists the individual’s impairment, and the medical professional’s opinion.
50% of the remaining states (not including states listed above), encourage or allow physician
reporting, but do not make it mandatory. This reporting is done through the use of anonymous, or
non-anonymous reporting of individuals as being inept to operate a motor vehicle (Alabama,
Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky,
Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico,
North Carolina, North Dakota, Rhode Island, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming).

You threaten your doctor with potential medical malpractice in the future, and he might just have your license medically revoked.

-Bill

I don't buy it though Not falling asleep at the wheel is exactly why provigil is on label for CPAP users... and it's effective, and it's not even a CNS stimulant. Of course I don't know all the details, but I think his doc is insane for not prescribing. Provigil has even been reported to reset peoples awake sleep cycle for apnea suffers! unbelievable. But what you posted is something to consider. Perhaps it's a better idea for the OP to just find a new doc.