Staying awake?

[MaxINTJ]

if you keep running into rude, loud, annoying, or stupid people, then you need to look in a mirror and ask why it happens to you

Do you ever get out of the house?

The roads are full of them, the stores are full of them, and public spaces are full of them - I sure as hell don't want to be stuck with them. Btw, my wife feels the same.

[Sheriff Buford]

I take 3 mg. of Melatonin and two 500 mg. of Magnesium about 20 - 30 minutes before I go to be... and I'm out like a light! It is over the counter and "natural" stuff.

Sheriff

[nicholasjh1]

I take 3 mg. of Melatonin and two 500 mg. of Magnesium about 20 - 30 minutes before I go to be... and I'm out like a light! It is over the counter and "natural" stuff.

Sheriff

I take the magnesium too, but how do you take 1000 mg and not have diahrea!? I can barely tolerate 1 500mg. Lucky.

[nicholasjh1]

Well, this sucks.

My PCP refuses to prescribe Nuvigil and has referred me back to the sleep clinic - who I'm sure will also refuse to prescribe it. I guess I need to buy shares in a coffee company and prepare for stomach problems.

I am sooooo tired of this BS.

Does he know it's approved for CPAP users? He may be thinking it's just a narcoleptic drug. Personally I'd go to another doctor (knowing what I know now). It's just that good. and it hasn't caused any sleeping issues for me.

Yes, but it's a stimulant that can interfere with sleep. >.<

HMMM, a lot of people say it is, but technically it's not a traditional stimulant. if I relax on it my heart rate goes down to 60 just like normal rest. it does up histamine (an awakeness promoter), and Orexin (the awake counterpart to melatonin). However as it does this mostly during the day, I'd say it's actually upped my tiredness and ability to sleep at night... you only take it right after you wake up, and it basically lasts all day. It also ups Serotonin, Dopamine, and norepinephrine (noradrenaline for the brits), by some "unknown" mechanism.... I think it's just because it makes you more awake. Your brain and body more naturally react to situations in an "awake" manner, which includes more dopamine, norepinephrine, Glutamate and Choline usage. I'll put it this way... Everything smells, tastes and feels more on it (including bad or good smells, tastes etc. ) But yes it does have stimulating properties, but it's far safer than and non-tolerance building as opposed to CNS stimulants, like adderall ritalin, etc which I would never suggest an apnea sufferer use.

Either way stay on the mask because no mask = dieing brain, regardless of sleep outcomes. It sounds like your doctor, like many has told you that sleep apnea is a "sleep" issue, and that CPAP will help you sleep. Sleep in my mind is only 30% of it. Primarily it's a "apnea" or "not breathing" issue, that kills your brain, throws off your hormones, causes your mind and body to adapt to multiple threats to life every night (in it's energy metabolism).

Ignore the nonsense about it being a "lost sleep" issue.

[MaxINTJ]

Either way stay on the mask because no mask = dieing brain, regardless of sleep outcomes. It sounds like your doctor, like many has told you that sleep apnea is a "sleep" issue, and that CPAP will help you sleep. Sleep in my mind is only 30% of it. Primarily it's a "apnea" or "not breathing" issue, that kills your brain, throws off your hormones, causes your mind and body to adapt to multiple threats to life every night (in it's energy metabolism).

Thanks for the info, I figured it wasn't a run-of-the-mill stimulant, but no matter, they apparently don't want to give it to me.

They just told me to talk to the doctor about it at my next appointment. I DON'T HAVE A DOCTOR APPOINTMENT SCHEDULED! I have a sleep study scheduled and outside the ER or obstetrics, no doctor is there at 8:00 PM. Nor is any doctor there before 5:30 AM when I will be leaving. Total load of crap.

They did, however, suggest I call the Integrative Medicine person - WTF? Yeah, we'll all go out in the woods and dance naked around a fire and that will fix everything. I am in no mood for gobbledygook.

As for the mask, I'm giving the doctor until after my next study to come up with something that works, or my masks will be skeet practice - and I'm serious.

There is a reason sleep deprivation is an effective interrogation method.

[nicholasjh1]

They did, however, suggest I call the Integrative Medicine person - WTF?

Actually this may be good advice, at least they are willing to admit they know shitall about apnea. I've actually suggested to a friend of mine who knows mental recovery techniques, has an exercise science degree, nutrition, etc crack the code on the various PTSD, body issues, endocrine issues, etc that come with apnea and start a recovery business. Most of the dedicated just take it into their own hands though. For me my doc just kept deflecting and redirecting on the Provigil, I wouldn't take no for an answer! But your doctor at least has some intuition... the medical industry treats cpap like there's a cure, but apnea is a systemic disease (at least in the damage it causes). there are all sorts of things that can help along your recovery. But that's the way most docs are these days... throw the prescription at you then walk out the door. But even without trying to improve the other issues eventually mask use will help all the down stream systemic issues that apnea initially causes.

Also I understand the anger... I was an angry prick before therapy, and it's still not completely "gone", however it's way better than when I started using the mask in February.

[MaxINTJ]

They did, however, suggest I call the Integrative Medicine person - WTF?

Actually this may be good advice, at least they are willing to admit they know shitall about apnea. I've actually suggested to a friend of mine who knows mental recovery techniques, has an exercise science degree, nutrition, etc crack the code on the various PTSD, body issues, endocrine issues, etc that come with apnea and start a recovery business. Most of the dedicated just take it into their own hands though. For me my doc just kept deflecting and redirecting on the Provigil, I wouldn't take no for an answer!

Good advice? The stuff I read on it is all airy fairy bullcrap. You can get better just by thinking "blah, blah, blah".

I don't do airy fairy. I don't meditate. I don't yoga, I don't pray. I stay in the real world.

My bet is that they only offer it during the day - when I'm at work - anyway.

[nanwilson]

They did, however, suggest I call the Integrative Medicine person - WTF?

Actually this may be good advice, at least they are willing to admit they know shitall about apnea. I've actually suggested to a friend of mine who knows mental recovery techniques, has an exercise science degree, nutrition, etc crack the code on the various PTSD, body issues, endocrine issues, etc that come with apnea and start a recovery business. Most of the dedicated just take it into their own hands though. For me my doc just kept deflecting and redirecting on the Provigil, I wouldn't take no for an answer!

Good advice? The stuff I read on it is all airy fairy bullcrap. You can get better just by thinking "blah, blah, blah".

I don't do airy fairy. I don't meditate. I don't yoga, I don't pray. I stay in the real world.

My bet is that they only offer it during the day - when I'm at work - anyway.

You have just proven everyone right Max...EXCUSES..EXCUSES..EXCUSES You will do anything to not do what is right or at least try.

[MaxINTJ]

They did, however, suggest I call the Integrative Medicine person - WTF?

Actually this may be good advice, at least they are willing to admit they know shitall about apnea. I've actually suggested to a friend of mine who knows mental recovery techniques, has an exercise science degree, nutrition, etc crack the code on the various PTSD, body issues, endocrine issues, etc that come with apnea and start a recovery business. Most of the dedicated just take it into their own hands though. For me my doc just kept deflecting and redirecting on the Provigil, I wouldn't take no for an answer!

Good advice? The stuff I read on it is all airy fairy bullcrap. You can get better just by thinking "blah, blah, blah".

I don't do airy fairy. I don't meditate. I don't yoga, I don't pray. I stay in the real world.

My bet is that they only offer it during the day - when I'm at work - anyway.

You have just proven everyone right Max...EXCUSES..EXCUSES..EXCUSES

There are zero excuses in my post. Other than the time it's offered which is an unknown, everything else is a FACT.

Funny, I couldn't find any facts on "integrative medicine", only vague AIRY FAIRY descriptions.

Example " Integrative medicine is an approach to care that puts the patient at the center and addresses the full range of physical, emotional, mental, social, spiritual and environmental influences that affect a person’s health.

The only condition I have is physical and that can be dealt with by a real doctor. The rest of it is airy fairy crap.

[nicholasjh1]

They did, however, suggest I call the Integrative Medicine person - WTF?

Actually this may be good advice, at least they are willing to admit they know shitall about apnea. I've actually suggested to a friend of mine who knows mental recovery techniques, has an exercise science degree, nutrition, etc crack the code on the various PTSD, body issues, endocrine issues, etc that come with apnea and start a recovery business. Most of the dedicated just take it into their own hands though. For me my doc just kept deflecting and redirecting on the Provigil, I wouldn't take no for an answer!

Good advice? The stuff I read on it is all airy fairy bullcrap. You can get better just by thinking "blah, blah, blah".

I don't do airy fairy. I don't meditate. I don't yoga, I don't pray. I stay in the real world.

My bet is that they only offer it during the day - when I'm at work - anyway.

Well it sounds like you're complaining about "airy fairy" crap, as you put it, if you didn't You'd use the mask daily, and just suck it up until it healed everything, and never think about not using it as you suggested in other posts. So all your other complaints are "airy fairy" crap. I'm not saying that any singular 'integrative medicine' person would be good, and I wouldn't even bother myself with that... I doubt there is one that's an expert on sleep apnea. But that's why I do all the work myself. If you're happy dealing with the anger, denial that you need it, and giving up on the mask because it "doesn't help you sleep" then whatever. But personally I think you're better than that and can figure it out.

[MaxINTJ]

Well it sounds like you're complaining about "airy fairy" crap, as you put it, if you didn't You'd use the mask daily, and just suck it up until it healed everything, and never think about not using it as you suggested in other posts. So all your other complaints are "airy fairy" crap. I'm not saying that any singular 'integrative medicine' person would be good, and I wouldn't even bother myself with that... I doubt there is one that's an expert on sleep apnea. But that's why I do all the work myself. If you're happy dealing with the anger, denial that you need it, and giving up on the mask because it "doesn't help you sleep" then whatever. But personally I think you're better than that and can figure it out.

Well, they can't even bother to call back, so no updates on that.

As for using the mask daily, I have been. For months. Do I feel ANY better? No.

How long is a person supposed to keep banging their head into a cement wall before they decide it's doing their headache no good?

I'm happy for the people that benefit from it, I'm just not one of them. I was using a borrowed ASV machine but I am now sending it back. It fixes my breathing issues by going to 25 pressure, but that necessitates me using the Amara View to avoid the open mouth wind tunnel when using the Dreamwear. The Amara View wakes me up multiple times in the night and then prevents me going to sleep again, so I either get up at 2 AM, stay in bed awake and uncomfortable, or take the mask off and get a bit more lousy sleep.

I am going to try my old machine with the Dreamwear and see if I go right back to tons of respiratory arousals. If I do, there's just no winning for me. I will still go to my 3rd study at the Sleep Disorders Department and hope for a miracle though.

I have exhausted every option I can find and every workable suggestion on this forum.

It is very disheartening to think I have something for which there is no effective treatment (for me).

[TASmart]

Well it sounds like you're complaining about "airy fairy" crap, as you put it, if you didn't You'd use the mask daily, and just suck it up until it healed everything, and never think about not using it as you suggested in other posts. So all your other complaints are "airy fairy" crap. I'm not saying that any singular 'integrative medicine' person would be good, and I wouldn't even bother myself with that... I doubt there is one that's an expert on sleep apnea. But that's why I do all the work myself. If you're happy dealing with the anger, denial that you need it, and giving up on the mask because it "doesn't help you sleep" then whatever. But personally I think you're better than that and can figure it out.

Well, they can't even bother to call back, so no updates on that.

As for using the mask daily, I have been. For months. Do I feel ANY better? No.

How long is a person supposed to keep banging their head into a cement wall before they decide it's doing their headache no good?

I'm happy for the people that benefit from it, I'm just not one of them. I was using a borrowed ASV machine but I am now sending it back. It fixes my breathing issues by going to 25 pressure, but that necessitates me using the Amara View to avoid the open mouth wind tunnel when using the Dreamwear. The Amara View wakes me up multiple times in the night and then prevents me going to sleep again, so I either get up at 2 AM, stay in bed awake and uncomfortable, or take the mask off and get a bit more lousy sleep.

I am going to try my old machine with the Dreamwear and see if I go right back to tons of respiratory arousals. If I do, there's just no winning for me. I will still go to my 3rd study at the Sleep Disorders Department and hope for a miracle though.

I have exhausted every option I can find and every workable suggestion on this forum.

It is very disheartening to think I have something for which there is no effective treatment (for me).

So give up the xPAP and move on Max. If you have tried everything, then only a fool keeps on beating his head against the wall. It may well be that you do not even have a SDB condition anyway. IIRC you started a trial to see if xPAP would help because the tests did not show any SDB. So get on with your life and find what the issue is, stop beating your head on the wall because the spitball approach did not work.

[MaxINTJ]

So give up the xPAP and move on Max. If you have tried everything, then only a fool keeps on beating his head against the wall. It may well be that you do not even have a SDB condition anyway. IIRC you started a trial to see if xPAP would help because the tests did not show any SDB. So get on with your life and find what the issue is, stop beating your head on the wall because the spitball approach did not work.

That's my plan, but I do have a SDB - my RDI is over 11, and the data from my CPAP machine always shows REALLY crappy sleep and lots of breathing related arousals.

So basically I'm screwed. It's not OSA, it's possibly UARS, and the only treatment for that doesn't work for me. I will just have to convince some doctor to prescribe something to keep me awake during the day before all this coffee causes some other health issue, and learn to live as a zombie, because being awake does not mean functioning properly.

[TASmart]

Sorry Max I missed the RDI reading. Still, if it's not working for you after diligent effort, then move on.

[Guesty]

Integrative medicine - a bunch of doctors from a variety of disciplines - determining your attitude sucks