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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
sleep_apnea_suffer
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Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby sleep_apnea_suffer on Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:56 am

I am confused at hell at the sleep report I have been given. I did a sleep test and it found out that I had mild apnea, with no OSA/Central or REARS. I still have hypnoea but don't have OSA anymore. The strange thing is that the conclusion says that I have mild OSA. Why are these people who interpret these home sleep tests, mix the two up together(Hypopnea and OSAs), when are not the same thing. One is partial obstruction the other one is fully obstruction. Should I go for another test? As in Inlab sleep test?

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby Julie on Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:45 am

Both are obstructive, but hypopneas are just less so, more like wannabe full apneas, but end up as partials. No one's trying to confuse or fool you and hypopneas respond to Cpap just as apneas do. You do have OSA, but a somewhat different form that may not arouse you as strongly as apneas, but still interfere with your sleep enough to do damage.

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby xxyzx on Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:12 am

sleep_apnea_suffer wrote:I am confused at hell at the sleep report I have been given. I did a sleep test and it found out that I had mild apnea, with no OSA/Central or REARS. I still have hypnoea but don't have OSA anymore. The strange thing is that the conclusion says that I have mild OSA. Why are these people who interpret these home sleep tests, mix the two up together(Hypopnea and OSAs), when are not the same thing. One is partial obstruction the other one is fully obstruction. Should I go for another test? As in Inlab sleep test?

==========

because AASM and medicrap use AHI to determine your condition
and AHI includes both apnea and hypops

as I have noted elsewhere AHI is a crude statistic with little real value
RDI tells better how you are being treated and how bad the problem is

AHI arbitrarily says 10 seconds is an event
9 seconds doesnt count even if you have thousands of them
a minute or two or longer still only counts as one event
it is really bad use of statistics to define a mostly meaningless metric

that said it is what the industry uses as their key indicator
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby xxyzx on Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:14 am

Julie wrote:Both are obstructive, but hypopneas are just less so, more like wannabe full apneas, but end up as partials. No one's trying to confuse or fool you and hypopneas respond to Cpap just as apneas do. You do have OSA, but a somewhat different form that may not arouse you as strongly as apneas, but still interfere with your sleep enough to do damage.

===

hypops MAY respond if the pressure is high enough
not all of them can be cleared with pressure
especially with a fixed cpap titrated to keep the airway open and not set higher

they will do damage if they lower your sp02 enough
they may or may not disturb sleep but that is also possible
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby sleep_apnea_suffer on Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:37 am

Julie wrote:Both are obstructive, but hypopneas are just less so, more like wannabe full apneas, but end up as partials. No one's trying to confuse or fool you and hypopneas respond to Cpap just as apneas do. You do have OSA, but a somewhat different form that may not arouse you as strongly as apneas, but still interfere with your sleep enough to do damage.


I am taking only shallow breaths I can tell. No wonder my BP is so low but from what I have read, hypopnea can be central as well as obstructive. Unfortunately, I can't tolerate CPAP very well. Would bipap be better in this situation or would an asv be?

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby Captain_Midnight on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:40 am

SAS asks...Why are these people who interpret these home sleep tests, mix the two up together(Hypopnea and OSAs), when are not the same thing. One is partial obstruction the other one is fully obstruction. Should I go for another test? As in Inlab sleep test?

I think that hyponeas are highly under-rated as far as severity of secondary sequelae (health effects which result from the original condition of sleep disordered breathing.)

I strongly suspect that, in many cases, hypopneas would have been full apnea occlusions, but your body's fight-or-flight hormone response elevates your sleep level enough to avoid suffocation. The stress hormone epinephrine is a major culprit here; also, cortisol is released at the same time, all which do not play nice with your over-all health and well-being.

If one considers the possibility that hypopneas might be a fight-or-flight response to what might have been a full apnea, then their seriousness comes into better view.

Interestingly, a quick lit search could not locate any scientific studies to support my suspicion about hypopneas, but I'll look more thoroughly when I can take the time.

Good luck in your decision on whether to get that additional test.



.

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby CpapWife on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:15 pm

xxyzx - that sound like using BMI to see if someone is overweight. :D
It has Nothing to do with how much fat someone carries (very fit muscular male will show as obese in BMI table even though their fat % can way under the normal healthy level).
And same with someone that looks small but has a very high amount of fat (so BMI says normal but fat % says obese).
Yet somehow all Drs somehow use this measurement now - because it is very easy and not because it is accurate (though for typical person who doesn't do work out hard with a medium or small frame it often is reasonably correct).

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby xxyzx on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:14 pm

CpapWife wrote:xxyzx - that sound like using BMI to see if someone is overweight. :D
It has Nothing to do with how much fat someone carries (very fit muscular male will show as obese in BMI table even though their fat % can way under the normal healthy level).
And same with someone that looks small but has a very high amount of fat (so BMI says normal but fat % says obese).
Yet somehow all Drs somehow use this measurement now - because it is very easy and not because it is accurate (though for typical person who doesn't do work out hard with a medium or small frame it often is reasonably correct).

--------

indeed

it is handy with little real value
and the BMI for obese is arbitrary
and has been changed showing how meaningless it really is

it is just conventional whizdumb of the crowds
or the medical version of political correctness
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby xxyzx on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:27 pm

Captain_Midnight wrote:SAS asks...Why are these people who interpret these home sleep tests, mix the two up together(Hypopnea and OSAs), when are not the same thing. One is partial obstruction the other one is fully obstruction. Should I go for another test? As in Inlab sleep test?

I think that hyponeas are highly under-rated as far as severity of secondary sequelae (health effects which result from the original condition of sleep disordered breathing.)

I strongly suspect that, in many cases, hypopneas would have been full apnea occlusions, but your body's fight-or-flight hormone response elevates your sleep level enough to avoid suffocation. The stress hormone epinephrine is a major culprit here; also, cortisol is released at the same time, all which do not play nice with your over-all health and well-being.

If one considers the possibility that hypopneas might be a fight-or-flight response to what might have been a full apnea, then their seriousness comes into better view.

Interestingly, a quick lit search could not locate any scientific studies to support my suspicion about hypopneas, but I'll look more thoroughly when I can take the time.

Good luck in your decision on whether to get that additional test. .

===========

i suspect hypops are overrated
especially considering the crude way they are defined and morphed into the AHI metric

long hypops with desats will mess up your sleep and may cause cell damage
but do short ones without desats really do anything
you dont even know a reduction in flow happened
and if it did you would either breathe deeper or increase the RR should your body feel it needed more oxygen

you definitely feel full apneas and they mess up sleep as well as cause damage from desats

hypops would not have been full apneas because the body fought it somehow
the muscles did not relax enough to let the throat close down more so no fighting needed

do let us know if you find anything that has been vetted by a medical journal to support your idea
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby TedVPAP on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:45 pm

sleep_apnea_suffer wrote:I am confused at hell at the sleep report I have been given. I did a sleep test and it found out that I had mild apnea, with no OSA/Central or REARS. I still have hypnoea but don't have OSA anymore. The strange thing is that the conclusion says that I have mild OSA. Why are these people who interpret these home sleep tests, mix the two up together(Hypopnea and OSAs), when are not the same thing. One is partial obstruction the other one is fully obstruction. Should I go for another test? As in Inlab sleep test?


I am confused by your statement. I see a few people have responded to you but I do not understand what you are saying. If you have OSA, then you have sleep apnea since OSA stands for Obstructive Sleep Apnea.

If you question is can you have OSA without any apnea events then the answer is yes.

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby xxyzx on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:05 pm

TedVPAP wrote:
sleep_apnea_suffer wrote:I am confused at hell at the sleep report I have been given. I did a sleep test and it found out that I had mild apnea, with no OSA/Central or REARS. I still have hypnoea but don't have OSA anymore. The strange thing is that the conclusion says that I have mild OSA. Why are these people who interpret these home sleep tests, mix the two up together(Hypopnea and OSAs), when are not the same thing. One is partial obstruction the other one is fully obstruction. Should I go for another test? As in Inlab sleep test?


I am confused by your statement. I see a few people have responded to you but I do not understand what you are saying. If you have OSA, then you have sleep apnea since OSA stands for Obstructive Sleep Apnea.

If you question is can you have OSA without any apnea events then the answer is yes.

==========

many people distinguish between full apnea and hypops
just like the machine does with his data

i think he said he has no full apnea either obstruct or central
but does have hypops which is a flow reduction
but does not have disturbances aka RERAs

he is confused because AHI is used to diagnose apnea even if you dont have apnea but only hypops
and they still call it apnea even if there is no apnea but only hypops
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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby Pugsy on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:19 pm

Hyponeas are considered part of the AHI which is used for diagnosis for OSA.
Apnea Index (central or obstructive apneas)
Hyponea Index
add the 2 together and you get AHI

So a person having primarily hyponeas still gets the diagnsosis of OSA if the hyponea index is high enough to meet diagnostic criteria even if the apnea index is low or non existent.

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby xxyzx on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:49 pm

Pugsy wrote:Hyponeas are considered part of the AHI which is used for diagnosis for OSA.
Apnea Index (central or obstructive apneas)
Hyponea Index
add the 2 together and you get AHI

So a person having primarily hyponeas still gets the diagnsosis of OSA if the hyponea index is high enough to meet diagnostic criteria even if the apnea index is low or non existent.

=======
exactly but the OP got confused with normal use of english vs sleep jargon words
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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby zoocrewphoto on Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:40 pm

Captain_Midnight wrote:SAS asks...Why are these people who interpret these home sleep tests, mix the two up together(Hypopnea and OSAs), when are not the same thing. One is partial obstruction the other one is fully obstruction. Should I go for another test? As in Inlab sleep test?

I think that hyponeas are highly under-rated as far as severity of secondary sequelae (health effects which result from the original condition of sleep disordered breathing.)

I strongly suspect that, in many cases, hypopneas would have been full apnea occlusions, but your body's fight-or-flight hormone response elevates your sleep level enough to avoid suffocation. The stress hormone epinephrine is a major culprit here; also, cortisol is released at the same time, all which do not play nice with your over-all health and well-being.

If one considers the possibility that hypopneas might be a fight-or-flight response to what might have been a full apnea, then their seriousness comes into better view.

Interestingly, a quick lit search could not locate any scientific studies to support my suspicion about hypopneas, but I'll look more thoroughly when I can take the time.




.




Exactly! I have a high ahi consisting for very short events (10-15 seconds) with mostly good oxygen saturation. My brain's method of keeping me alive (pre-cpap) is to sleep lightly and arouse each time an event starts. So, my events are frequent, but don't last long. This keeps my oxygen level up, but totally trashes my sleep. I also have high blood pressure from the adrenaline. If I could stay awake, I would not have breathing events. But going without sleep is just as dangerous as having the breathing events.


My mom has the opposite problem. She has a much lower ahi with much longer events that really take her oxygen down. She "appears" to sleep really well, but her brain isn't doing much to try and keep her alive. Her blood pressure is normal without medication.

Both of us have a severe sleep problem, and our treatment is the same. We just have very different numbers, and our bodies are affected differently.

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Re: Hypopnea vs Apnea

Postby xxyzx on Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:48 pm

zoocrewphoto wrote:
Captain_Midnight wrote:SAS asks...Why are these people who interpret these home sleep tests, mix the two up together(Hypopnea and OSAs), when are not the same thing. One is partial obstruction the other one is fully obstruction. Should I go for another test? As in Inlab sleep test?

I think that hyponeas are highly under-rated as far as severity of secondary sequelae (health effects which result from the original condition of sleep disordered breathing.)

I strongly suspect that, in many cases, hypopneas would have been full apnea occlusions, but your body's fight-or-flight hormone response elevates your sleep level enough to avoid suffocation. The stress hormone epinephrine is a major culprit here; also, cortisol is released at the same time, all which do not play nice with your over-all health and well-being.

If one considers the possibility that hypopneas might be a fight-or-flight response to what might have been a full apnea, then their seriousness comes into better view.

Interestingly, a quick lit search could not locate any scientific studies to support my suspicion about hypopneas, but I'll look more thoroughly when I can take the time.




.




Exactly! I have a high ahi consisting for very short events (10-15 seconds) with mostly good oxygen saturation. My brain's method of keeping me alive (pre-cpap) is to sleep lightly and arouse each time an event starts. So, my events are frequent, but don't last long. This keeps my oxygen level up, but totally trashes my sleep. I also have high blood pressure from the adrenaline. If I could stay awake, I would not have breathing events. But going without sleep is just as dangerous as having the breathing events.


My mom has the opposite problem. She has a much lower ahi with much longer events that really take her oxygen down. She "appears" to sleep really well, but her brain isn't doing much to try and keep her alive. Her blood pressure is normal without medication.

Both of us have a severe sleep problem, and our treatment is the same. We just have very different numbers, and our bodies are affected differently.

==========

really ?

no desats then no awakening

the lung has a minute of reserve oxygen
you should not feel a hypop of 10-15 seconds at all
IF I ever say anything incorrect somebody will post true facts to prove it. But when my posts are accurate they will always attack me personally. You can decide whether my post is correct or not by looking at which they did. [color=#FF00FF]

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