Mask stupidity

MaxINTJ · Post by **MaxINTJ** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:52 am

I have been at this now for 3 months, My first mask choice is still my most comfortable mask choice (Dreamwear), but it doesn't work with my mouth and high pressure (blowouts through my mouth/lips).

Last night I took the mask off (again) around 3:00. I remember doing it but not the reason - I promptly went back to sleep. I have given the Amara View 2 weeks of trial, and if anything is going to make me give up, it's the complete lack of mask choices.

It seems the people who design these things all sleep perfectly still on their backs - or assume everyone in the world does. They put the vents at the nose blowing straight forward - so if you sleep in any way besides on you back or on your side hanging off a special pillow - the vented air blows back into your eyes. They (all but one) mount the hose at the front of the mask so it's equivalent to trying to sleep in scuba gear. I find the huge protrusion and hose always getting in the way and I easily block or partially block the vents.

WTF are these "engineers" thinking? Have they even tried to sleep in these things?

I'm used to and can tolerate the xPAP itself, even with pressures to 25, so that's not the problem. It may even help me eventually, but not if there are no masks that work for me.

AMESS · Post by **AMESS** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:11 am

I agree 100 percent. Same problems. Going to tape the air vent somehow so it wont move. NO wont tape over the air coming out. Hopefully the manufactures will read and re read this and get it right.

LSAT · Post by **LSAT** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:53 am

AMESS wrote:I agree 100 percent. Same problems. Going to tape the air vent somehow so it wont move. NO wont tape over the air coming out. Hopefully the manufactures will read and re read this and get it right.

You are posting in the right place

coconur · Post by **coconur** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:30 am

MaxINTJ wrote:I have been at this now for 3 months, My first mask choice is still my most comfortable mask choice (Dreamwear), but it doesn't work with my mouth and high pressure (blowouts through my mouth/lips).

Last night I took the mask off (again) around 3:00. I remember doing it but not the reason - I promptly went back to sleep. I have given the Amara View 2 weeks of trial, and if anything is going to make me give up, it's the complete lack of mask choices.

It seems the people who design these things all sleep perfectly still on their backs - or assume everyone in the world does. They put the vents at the nose blowing straight forward - so if you sleep in any way besides on you back or on your side hanging off a special pillow - the vented air blows back into your eyes. They (all but one) mount the hose at the front of the mask so it's equivalent to trying to sleep in scuba gear. I find the huge protrusion and hose always getting in the way and I easily block or partially block the vents.

I sleep kind of halfway between my stomach and my side -- kind of hard to explain, maybe I can get a picture later. Yes, my Swift FX mask has the hose coming out the front, but the protrusion is small enough that it doesn't get in the way. My first mask was the Mirage Swift II, which does have the hose coming out the side, but I didn't think that design worked very well. There are openings on both sides so you can switch the hose position, with a cover for the side that doesn't have the hose. The biggest problem I found with that mask was that those side openings leaked air, especially on the side with the cover, which made a lot of noise. I don't notice any leaks at all with the FX. I keep looking at new masks, but haven't found any that I think will fit my sleep style better than the FX. With the bella loops instead of the headgear, I hardly even notice I'm wearing it.

MaxINTJ · Post by **MaxINTJ** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:51 am

coconur wrote: I don't notice any leaks at all with the FX. I keep looking at new masks, but haven't found any that I think will fit my sleep style better than the FX. With the bella loops instead of the headgear, I hardly even notice I'm wearing it.

That's the way I feel about the Dreamwear. Hose is well out of the way and there is maybe a 1/4" of protrusion at the front, so I can sleep pretty much like normal.

There is no reason they could not make FFMs or hybrids like the Amara View with a top mounted hose and reduce the protrusion at the front down to a very minimal amount.

TASmart · Post by **TASmart** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:38 am

Would seem that about 7% of people sleep on their back. Personally, I take time to look things up before I make wild-ass claims.

MaxINTJ · Post by **MaxINTJ** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:42 am

TASmart wrote:Would seem that about 7% of people sleep on their back. Personally, I take time to look things up before I make wild-ass claims.

Looks like 8% on back and 7% on front... I have seen the 7% number elsewhere.

Regardless, mask manufacturers are ignoring 7% of the people who have SDB problems. The ONLY mask usable comfortably by a front sleeper is the Dreamwear.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:47 am

When I am sick, it's the fecal position . . . .

jnk... · Post by **jnk...** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:16 pm

TASmart wrote:Would seem that about 7% of people sleep on their back. . . .

My understanding is that any statistic regarding people's "favorite" or preferred" sleeping position is completely unrelated to the question of what portion of the population occasionally, or regularly, ends up supine during sleep. My belief is that many who claim never to sleep supine often do but won't admit it until they see a recording proving otherwise--and some continue to deny it even after seeing it for themselves.

As for the topic . . .

Re: Mask stupidity

. . . generally, I'm for that. But I try my best not to mask mine unless absolutely necessary.

Hey, that's just me.

TASmart · Post by **TASmart** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:22 pm

I really have no skin in the how you sleep game, I was simply providing some information to dispute that current mask designs are suitable for 99% of the population.

WearyOne · Post by **WearyOne** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:25 pm

I believe most people don't truly know if they sleep on their backs or not unless their nightly sleep is recorded on video (or someone stands around watching them all night). Before my sleep study, I "knew" I never slept on my back because I never woke up on my back and I never went to sleep on my back. But low and behold, the video from my sleep study definitely proved otherwise. But I do sleep mostly on my left side. I have a mask with the vent in the front, right above where the hose connects to the mask. I don't have any special pillows and never have an issue with air blowing back in my face. Now I do tend to sleep on my side at the edge of the pillow, but that's something I've always done, not something that changed with cpap use

jnk... · Post by **jnk...** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:33 pm

TASmart wrote:I really have no skin in the how you sleep game, I was simply providing some information to dispute that current mask designs are suitable for 99% of the population.

Just used your words as the quote to keep from using you-know-who's on my foe list.

I had no trouble with your post, TASmart. (Well, other than maybe your casting some aspersions on the wild donkey population of this fine land. Some of my favorite homeless donkeys live in parks out west.) Just felt like making the point to qualify the chart.

alarsen77 · Post by **alarsen77** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:35 pm

So according to that chart it is saying that sleeping on your back is the best but higher risk of snoring. So if you are using a CPAP machine can you sleep on your back or is the side better? I am asking as I am waiting on the results of my home sleep study. I currently am either a side or back sleeper but primarily on my side (due to the fact that my girlfriend will usually push me over to my side when I am on my back due to my snoring). So I know I am an active sleeper and find that it is usually my side or back where I end up the most. So I am wondering if I do get diagnosed and get a CPAP to use would it be ok to sleep on my back? It seems I see a lot of people on the forums prefer side sleeping with CPAP?

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:37 pm

When you think of it, the current program (trial and error) sells a heck of a lot of masks
that only get worn a couple of times. They probably think it's BRILLIANT.
Now if all those failures get sold or donated, this could cut into those ungodly orofits.

MaxINTJ · Post by **MaxINTJ** » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:40 pm

TASmart wrote:I really have no skin in the how you sleep game, I was simply providing some information to dispute that current mask designs are suitable for 99% of the population.

How do you get 99% if 7% are front sleepers? And out of the side sleepers, how many sleep with their head fully on the pillow so it wraps around the head a bit? For the former, only a top mount hose works, and for the latter, no FFM at all will work - those folks need to move to the edge of the pillow when using a FFM, but at least they don't need to change their entire position.

Geez, companies make plenty of stuff for Mac computers and they're only about 5% of the market, why can't these mask manufacturers make something for the 7%?

Like I said in the original post, if anything makes me give up, it will be the lack of mask choices - not the noise, not the pressure, not the inconvenience, not the alien on the face, it will be mask design, period.

Machine	Mask