And the journey begins....

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Sleeping Ugly
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Re: And the journey begins....

Post by Sleeping Ugly » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:01 am

chunkyfrog wrote:
Sleeping Ugly wrote: . . .
I got 97% of my information here and the other 4% from watching The LankyLefty27 on Youtube.
. . .
The creative math [97+4=101] was a clever way to make the point
that we are getting more information than we are "supposed to"---
As a matter of fact, far more info than too many providers KNOW exist.
Kudos!
Oh, if ONLY it was a clever way of making a point instead of the horrible, unvarnished truth--I can't add.
CPAP Therapy: providing restful and restorative sleep, while making you LOOK like you haven't had ANY! --me

sleeps_on_hoes

Re: And the journey begins....

Post by sleeps_on_hoes » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:44 am

kteague wrote:For instance, I sleep on my side with my face on my hand. Masks with hoses carrying the air along the side of the face aren't comfortable for me. Don't want to sleep on a hose.
And that's why they make all kinds and you have to try several, because we all like different stuff. I sleep on my side and will only use Dreamwear products.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: And the journey begins....

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:45 am

Mittens1 wrote: Am I saying no way to full-face too early in the game, or is it reasonable to go with my gut instinct for now, and revisit it only if the nasal version doesn't work out?
FFMs are for people who can't keep their mouth shut all night long.
How do people overcome dry eyes?
You have to figure out if the mask exhaust air is blowing into your eyes. If it is, you need to figure out where it is coming from.

It could be from mask leaks. You should work on preventing mask leaks. You can get a lot of help here. Just ask.

The air could be coming from the exhaust bouncing off the bed covers or a pillow. You should position things so this doesn't happen.
Has anyone else experienced numbness as a result of wearing a CPAP mask?
Yes. It's usually a matter of having the headgear adjusted too tightly. Masks are not designed to be adjusted tightly. Let us know the model mask you are having problems with. We can offer "fixes". We can also point to videos with fitting and adjusting instructions.

BTW, everything you are describing is normal learning curve experience for CPAP.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: And the journey begins....

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:47 am

I should add in case it turns out that you need a FFM, there are models that you can use while wearing glasses. I use one, and it works very well.

Mittens1

Re: And the journey begins....

Post by Mittens1 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:21 pm

At the risk of asking a really stupid question -- why would someone have only hypopneas during diagnostic portion of a sleep study, and then with CPAP, have a few obstructive apneas, central apneas and some hypopneas (though far fewer than without the mask)? I thought apneas were worse than hypopneas, right?

If wearing the mask makes things more severe (and it would seem apneas would be more severe than hypopneas, right?), then why .....? Is it ever better to just leave well enough alone? I'm not trying to be a brat, honest, it's just I'm trying to come to terms with this. I hope I won't regret asking this, feeling pretty vulnerable, but it's on my mind, and I'm trying to understand.

Now, I will admit I did feel better, more rested, after the study -- so I'm trying to remember that.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: And the journey begins....

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:30 pm

Mittens1 wrote:why would someone have only hypopneas during diagnostic portion of a sleep study, and then with CPAP, have a few obstructive apneas, central apneas and some hypopneas
The key word here is "few".

Beyond that, there could be many reasons that would answer your question. One distinct possibility is that the hypopneas in your diagnostic portion kept you from reaching the stages 3, 4 and REM sleep. Sleep apnea is usually most severe in REM sleep. During the titration portion of your study, the CPAP therapy was preventing hypopneas and allowing you to get better quality sleep where you experienced a "few" events.

Also, during the titration portion, the technician is trying to find the lowest pressure that will treat your condition well. She will be using a lower pressure than is optimal for a good bit of the time.
I was unprepared to hear "severe apnea." Sure, it validates why I've been so tired, but -- really?
You report heavy fatigue. You have a diagnostic study in a sleep lab that says you have severe sleep apnea. You say you felt more rested after the titration study. Do you really want to question that CPAP therapy cannot make you significantly healthier and more energetic?

Don't talk yourself out of this.

Mittens1

Re: And the journey begins....

Post by Mittens1 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:10 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mittens1 wrote:why would someone have only hypopneas during diagnostic portion of a sleep study, and then with CPAP, have a few obstructive apneas, central apneas and some hypopneas
The key word here is "few".

Beyond that, there could be many reasons that would answer your question. One distinct possibility is that the hypopneas in your diagnostic portion kept you from reaching the stages 3, 4 and REM sleep. Sleep apnea is usually most severe in REM sleep. During the titration portion of your study, the CPAP therapy was preventing hypopneas and allowing you to get better quality sleep where you experienced a "few" events.

Also, during the titration portion, the technician is trying to find the lowest pressure that will treat your condition well. She will be using a lower pressure than is optimal for a good bit of the time.
OK... During the first part, there was no REM sleep. None. (I suspect REM sleep has been rare for several months, at least, thought I have no way of knowing for sure.) During titration, almost 19% was spent in REM. Non-REM AHI dropped to 12.6, but REM AHI was 24.9 during titration. So -- seeing some additional events would not be unexpected as one eliminates barriers to better quality (deeper) sleep, but hopefully CPAP can also prevent most of those events from happening once getting to the deeper sleep -- is that it?

If I'm hearing you right, they may have intentionally left the pressure lower at times to see test whether an event was just a random happenstance or if it is truly an insufficient therapeutic level of pressure. But once we have the right pressures dialed in, things should settle down. That's the theory?

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: And the journey begins....

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:31 pm

Mittens1 wrote:If I'm hearing you right, they may have intentionally left the pressure lower at times to see test whether an event was just a random happenstance or if it is truly an insufficient therapeutic level of pressure. But once we have the right pressures dialed in, things should settle down. That's the theory?
I like your explanation better than mine. Don't copyright it. I may use it in future posts.

Mittens1 wrote:But once we have the right pressures dialed in, things should settle down.
Yes. Dial wingin'.

You'll want to do this at home over several nights or even weeks. The sleep study titration is just one night - a good starting point. You probably sleep and breathe differently in your own bed at home. There is a good chance you can find more optimal machine settings than what the lab found in that short titration study. Sleepyhead is the software of choice that is used to analyze what is happening before and after making any changes.

If the lab prescribes a high pressure, there are some "tricks" we can show you that may allow you to get excellent therapy at a lower, more comfortable pressure.
Mittens1 wrote:hopefully CPAP can also prevent most of those events from happening once getting to the deeper sleep -- is that it?
My sleep study was 50-something AHI. With CPAP, last 12 months average = 1.0 AHI. And the few events were short.
During the first part, there was no REM sleep. None. (I suspect REM sleep has been rare for several months, at least, thought I have no way of knowing for sure.) During titration, almost 19% was spent in REM.
I guessed something right! No REM sleep untreated. REM sleep when treated. This is one indication that CPAP can be a big benefit for you.

Sleepyhead
https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead
https://sleep.tnet.com/resources/sleepyhead/shorganize
https://sleep.tnet.com/reference/tips/imgur

Mittens1

Re: And the journey begins....

Post by Mittens1 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:56 pm

Thanks for the answers (and even the educated guesses)! When something makes sense, it's a lot easier to move forward. And when they called, they did say that the doc wrote the script for a little higher pressure than what the tech had used during the study, since even at the end of the study with the highest pressure, the AHI was still above 5. She thinks edging the max pressure a little higher may help with getting AHI under better control. I get the idea that they'll be remotely watching how things go over the first few weeks before the follow-up appointment.

Thanks again for the info and the encouragement. Hopefully I'll get the machine and get set up sometime next week.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: And the journey begins....

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:48 pm

Mittens1 wrote: the max pressure
That's an indication they are prescribing an APAP machine ( wiki/index.php/AutoPAP ), which is what we always recommend for basic OSA cases. It will be nice to see exactly which model.

Here are the two models of APAPs we most commonly recommend -

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... idair.html

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pr-dre ... chine.html (plus optional humidifier)

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TASmart
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Location: Eugene, OR

Re: And the journey begins....

Post by TASmart » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:57 pm

Well, I am not sure about hypops but hypopneas can cause O2 desaturations. Spell check can be our friend!
All posts reflect my own opinion based on my experience and reading.
Your mileage may vary
Past performance is no guarantee of future results
Consult with your own physician as people very

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TASmart
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Re: And the journey begins....

Post by TASmart » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:14 pm

I see you changed that w/o admitting it. Thanks
All posts reflect my own opinion based on my experience and reading.
Your mileage may vary
Past performance is no guarantee of future results
Consult with your own physician as people very

Mittens1

Re: And the journey begins....

Post by Mittens1 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:47 pm

(Not sure if it's best to continue the thread or post a new one -- hope this is okay.)

First two nights on APAP are complete, and both had less than 3 events per hour. Sleep was interrupted a lot, but hopefully that will settle down with time. Since I cannot yet attach anything to the signature, I'll answer the first question or two here -- AirSense 10 AutoSet with AirFit P10 Pillow Mask. I have two main questions at the moment.

First, if prior to diagnosis, our bodies were used to adrenalin kicking in multiple times during the night, what does it do to have a sudden change? How can we best support our bodies during that transition? (Although it's a great thing to drop that stress level, I'm sure, I wonder if it's also hard in some ways both physically and otherwise.)

Second, my pain levels have shot up the past two days, especially neck pain due to existing cervical issues. I suspect the neck is unhappy with the added pull and weight of the hose attached to my face, yet that is one of the lightest masks out there, according to the DME. They want me to try it through at least Monday. Any suggestions for dealing with that pull? Is it likely the weight/resistance of the mask? (I've even wondered if deeper sleep might mean pain is a bigger factor simply due to less adrenalin flowing in the system?)

Thanks for the support and encouragement I've seen from many around here.

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Pugsy
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Re: And the journey begins....

Post by Pugsy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:59 pm

Get some sort of hose management system rigged up (you can do a DIY project or buy store bought) so the hose doesn't pull on the mask.

Here's a thread with some DIY projects.
viewtopic.php?t=10640
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

johnny4444

Re: And the journey begins....

Post by johnny4444 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:18 pm

I can relate to your post I have the same thing happen to me in the last 2 wks.
Although it is a shock it led me to think of my past.
I have been in a profession that takes a lot of concentration and delicate work. When I think back in order to be accurate I learned to hold my breath while working.
I have now realized that now that I am retired I have developed the habit of holding my breath when I am concentrating. Wow that blew my mind. In the next couple of weeks I will be on a cpap machine for life. a lot to take in however I am up for it with a positive attitude.
I already have NAME for my machine. I will not fight it I will roll with it and make the best of it.
I am looking forward to getting started and feeling better.
Johnny