I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
HeyImOnTheInternet2

I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by HeyImOnTheInternet2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:21 am

Here are my stats to make understanding this easier:

Untreated:

Apnea index: .6
Hypoapnea index: 22

Treated with the trial model: Apex XT Auto for 2 weeks:

AHI: 1-2
Apnea index: 0
Hpyoapnea index: 1-2

Treated with purchased model: Apex ICH Auto for 1 week so far:

AHI: 8-12
Apnea index: 3-5
Hpyoapnea index: 7-8

I am a new APAP/CPAP user. I had an APAP (Apex XT Auto) for trial evaluation and that was great, AHI as low as 0-2 on different nights. As soon as I bought the real thing ( I bought a similar but newer model called the Apex ICH Auto, basically went from XT -> ICH), I have had an AHI of 9 average, every night. But really, my AHI is more like 3-5 for the first 4 hours, then goes beserk to 28-33 after 4-5 hours of operation. It obviously wakes me up. These numbers are insane, I don't even have apneas that much untreated (apnea index is .6 , hypoapnea index is 22).

So here is the real problem I notice: sometimes I am unable to inhale using this machine. Air won't fully pull in either my nose or mouth, it's as though they are closed for incoming air. I notice this when I am awake, and I can see my apnea/hypoapnea index during this portion is VERY high, like 30-40. This was never a problem on the trial model. Has anyone ever witness this kind of problem regarding inhaling on an xPAP machine?? I feel like I am going crazy because the doctor/sales-rep are just ignoring what I say about this. Also, no I can't get a different brand, I am not in America currently and this is the only decent quality brand out this way.

So,

Any ideas why I am unable to inhale with this machine, is it broken?
Also, consider that my AHI has quadrupled on this machine (same reporting software, just a slightly different model). I mean, it's made my apnea index even worse than if I used no xPAP machine at all! Something isn't right!

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Julie
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by Julie » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:41 am

What are your pressure settings? Your machine itself may not be the problem.

And where do you live?

ImOnTheInternet2

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by ImOnTheInternet2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:33 am

I live in Thailand. My pressure settings are 5-15, sometimes 8-15. Trying different things. On the trial model, it was 8-13 and I had very low AHI (1-2). Tried 8-13 on the actual purchased model and it has been an AHI of 8-12 (average, but with huge spikes of 30 AHI).

ImOnTheInternet2

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by ImOnTheInternet2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:22 am

xxyzx wrote:
======

why not buy the machine that worked well
get rid of the one that does not work so good
I'm in the process of dealing with that right now. However, because this is Thailand and I am a foreigner, they don't legally have to allow me to exchange it. So I worry that they may not allow me to exchange it for the XT. Also, it's like 3x more expensive to buy an xPAP machine here due to taxes/sales-overhead/etc.

So I worry about that, and that they may not let me exchange it, and that it may actually just be broke, and that I have no viable legal recourse. Any help understanding why the machine is doing this would help me as I have to talk with their support team in-person tomorrow. I don't want to keep telling them about a problem that they don't understand, and there are also language barriers that prevent describing this problem adequately. Also cultural barriers, specifically with regards to problem solving. The Thai way to solve problems often involves anything but fixing it directly. They are very indirect when it comes to problem solving, not sure why. But things like waiting, doing nothing, blaming others, lying are the only problem solving tools in their arsenal. They simply cannot accept that a problem exists as it goes against their cultural code of conduct, even when objective scientific evidence demonstrates that said problem exists. The sales rep is already blaming ME because she said I change the min/max settings too much, but she was the one who told me to change it. See how their culture is difficult to deal with regrading business/professionalism? They find problems to be jarring and difficult and will easily come up with blame that makes no sense (as she was the one who told me to change the settings in the first place, then blames me the next day for changing the settings too much as a way to deflect that there is even a problem with the machine so that she can save face).

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Julie
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by Julie » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:53 am

Well, the min. setting of 5 is difficult for many, maybe most to inhale at and I would have thought 8 should have helped, but you apparently do have other problems, not all of which I can address, just don't know your machine, don't have software reports to look at (have you tried downloading Sleepyhead - free - to get an idea of what's what), and the bureaucracy there sounds horrendous. Have you considered trying to deal with e.g. Australia (i.e. the sleep centre at Monash Hosp. in Vic. is excellent)? Hopefully someone else here will know more of the tech stuff involved with your machine... wish I had a quick answer. One thing - if you have some version of an exhalation pressure relief setting on - it's good for those who need it but can raise AHI by a couple (not a lot tho') of cm, can you turn it down, or off to see if there's any change? But it does sound like you may have a machine problem apart from anything else.

ImOnTheInternet2

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by ImOnTheInternet2 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:38 pm

Okay problem fixed! They gave me a new mask, the "Zzz-Mask Full Face by PMI Probasics". The mask fits over my face very well, it seals well, handles high pressures well and doesn't leak between my skin and the silicon. And I didn't see any major leaking in the report (3-5).

But, I finally noticed that there is a leak in the hosing of the mask, around where it connects to the tubing. I tried to tape it but that didn't hold, air seeps out. So I put the old mask back on and noticed the "I can't inhale" problem was completely gone. I thought I noticed the "I can't inhale problem" with the old mask too so I erroneously ruled out the mask being the problem. Also, GREAT news. My AHI is back low at 1.46 last night!! And for the first time ever with xPAP, I slept almost 7 hours straight. So things are looking good. Also, I don't recall sleeping 7 hours straight for a long time (because OSA was waking me up after about 4-6 hours every single night, at least once).

Soothest Sleep
Posts: 290
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:35 pm

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by Soothest Sleep » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:46 pm

ImOnTheInternet2 wrote:Okay problem fixed!
Glad to know you found a solution, and are sleeping better!
O soft embalmer of the still midnight,
Shutting, with careful fingers and benign,
Our gloom-pleas'd eyes, embower'd from the light,
Enshaded in forgetfulness divine
-- John Keats

Zeds
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:25 am

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by Zeds » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:01 am

ImOnTheInternet2 wrote:
xxyzx wrote:
======

why not buy the machine that worked well
get rid of the one that does not work so good
I'm in the process of dealing with that right now. However, because this is Thailand and I am a foreigner, they don't legally have to allow me to exchange it. So I worry that they may not allow me to exchange it for the XT. Also, it's like 3x more expensive to buy an xPAP machine here due to taxes/sales-overhead/etc.
Secondwind ships abroad?

ImOnTheInternet2

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by ImOnTheInternet2 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:37 am

Zeds wrote:
ImOnTheInternet2 wrote:
xxyzx wrote:
======

why not buy the machine that worked well
get rid of the one that does not work so good
I'm in the process of dealing with that right now. However, because this is Thailand and I am a foreigner, they don't legally have to allow me to exchange it. So I worry that they may not allow me to exchange it for the XT. Also, it's like 3x more expensive to buy an xPAP machine here due to taxes/sales-overhead/etc.
Secondwind ships abroad?
Whole 'nother can of worms though. I would love to buy from there or anywhere with good prices (I paid 3x the price for my APAP). But Thai import/customs is notoriously corrupt. I don't want to chance it with them. They are known to hold packages ransom and demand under-the-table personal bribes in exchange for them. Sometimes packages just go missing, it's a real lottery there.

Guest

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by Guest » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:06 am

ImOnTheInternet2 wrote:Okay problem fixed! But, I finally noticed that there is a leak in the hosing of the mask, around where it connects to the tubing. I tried to tape it but that didn't hold, air seeps out.
holy crap! do NOT, not ever, do that!

that is the intended leakage or the exspiration leak. If you seal that, CO2 builds up in your mask and you suffocate. (not kidding here - not exaggerating)
(holy fraggin' crap - please read the manual! - for the mask AND for the device)

Guest

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by Guest » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:09 am

xxyzx wrote:
Julie wrote:Well, the min. setting of 5 is difficult for many, maybe most to inhale at
=====

you keep claiming that

but if we can breath at ATM +0changes
how can it be any harder to breathe with 5cm more pressure helping ?
It is not a problem with the pressure but an airflow or flowrate problem.
more pressure = more airflow (or more air there to be inhaled)

HeyImOnTheInternet2

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by HeyImOnTheInternet2 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:17 am

Guest wrote:
ImOnTheInternet2 wrote:Okay problem fixed! But, I finally noticed that there is a leak in the hosing of the mask, around where it connects to the tubing. I tried to tape it but that didn't hold, air seeps out.
holy crap! do NOT, not ever, do that!

that is the intended leakage or the exspiration leak. If you seal that, CO2 builds up in your mask and you suffocate. (not kidding here - not exaggerating)
(holy fraggin' crap - please read the manual! - for the mask AND for the device)
Haha right I konw about that one. That one is fine. There was a second leak occurring UNDER the valve, in the hosing.

Guest

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by Guest » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:36 am

I am pretty convinced that what you describe ist the intended leakage for the CO2-Vent-Flow. (yes, I am convinced - you might confuse the AAV with the CO2-Vent-Flow-openings, which are really tiny)

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zoocrewphoto
Posts: 3732
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:34 pm
Location: Seatac, WA

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by zoocrewphoto » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:47 am

xxyzx wrote:
Julie wrote:Well, the min. setting of 5 is difficult for many, maybe most to inhale at and I would have thought 8 should have helped, but you apparently do have other problems, not all of which I can address, just don't know your machine, don't have software reports to look at (have you tried downloading Sleepyhead - free - to get an idea of what's what), and the bureaucracy there sounds horrendous. Have you considered trying to deal with e.g. Australia (i.e. the sleep centre at Monash Hosp. in Vic. is excellent)? Hopefully someone else here will know more of the tech stuff involved with your machine... wish I had a quick answer. One thing - if you have some version of an exhalation pressure relief setting on - it's good for those who need it but can raise AHI by a couple (not a lot tho') of cm, can you turn it down, or off to see if there's any change? But it does sound like you may have a machine problem apart from anything else.
=====

you keep claiming that

but if we can breath at ATM +0changes
how can it be any harder to breathe with 5cm more pressure helping ?

Turn your machine down to 4 or 5 and give it a try. Some people are okay with it. Most are not. You won't die, but it isn't comfortable.

When I have a coughing fit, I have found that even 11 isn't enough. I have to raise my minimum to 13 in order to cough multiple times and not feel like I am out of air.

_________________
Mask: Quattro™ FX Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Resmed S9 autoset pressure range 11-17
Who would have thought it would be this challenging to sleep and breathe at the same time?

zoran
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:23 pm

Re: I can't inhale 50% of the time with my new APAP machine, is

Post by zoran » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:25 pm

ImOnTheInternet2 wrote:
Zeds wrote:
ImOnTheInternet2 wrote:
xxyzx wrote:
======

why not buy the machine that worked well
get rid of the one that does not work so good
I'm in the process of dealing with that right now. However, because this is Thailand and I am a foreigner, they don't legally have to allow me to exchange it. So I worry that they may not allow me to exchange it for the XT. Also, it's like 3x more expensive to buy an xPAP machine here due to taxes/sales-overhead/etc.
Secondwind ships abroad?
Whole 'nother can of worms though. I would love to buy from there or anywhere with good prices (I paid 3x the price for my APAP). But Thai import/customs is notoriously corrupt. I don't want to chance it with them. They are known to hold packages ransom and demand under-the-table personal bribes in exchange for them. Sometimes packages just go missing, it's a real lottery there.
By the way I just imported a second wind cpap in to Thailand. The duty was only about $60 and the courier company handled all the paperwork for me ( a special import license is needed but its easy to get) however a specialists prescription is needed and that was a hassle but worth it due to the huge savings on new machines here.