Quantcast

Bookmark and Share
General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
tbear
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 pm
Gender: None specified

How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby tbear on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:40 pm

I am a long time bipap user, be using a Resmed S9 VPAP Auto for the last 4-5 years without any problems.

I have recently purchased a Brand New Resmed Aircurve 10 VAuto but the unit apears to be used. When I compared the machine "Used hours" of 131 hrs to the actual "Run hours", which cannot be altered, is a total of 157 hrs. This unit was ordered directly from Resmed and any type of testing can not make up for the 26 hour difference which is equivalent to 4-5 days of usage prior to my receiving it. As I understand it the total Run hrs = the actual time the machine is being used and "Blowing Air". The "Used hours" = the total time I have run the machine in "blowing air".

Does anyone think I have the right to demand that Resmed replaces this A10 with a new replacement machine that has only 0 to 1.0 hour of testing? There are a few other quirks with the machine as well.

Thanks

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41489
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby Pugsy on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:50 pm

The 131 used hours or therapy hours...are they all yours?
If so, the difference is probably the cool down period after you remove the mask and the machine continues to blow for 30 to 45 minutes to dry out the hose. The cool down blowing time period isn't included in the therapy hours but it will accumulate in the machine total run hours.
So run hours won't ever equal therapy hours because of the cool time period where the machine is blowing at that low level.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

tbear
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 pm
Gender: None specified

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby tbear on Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:57 pm

Hi Pugsy thanks for the quick reply.

BTW - I do like my Resmed S9, they make a great machine but I have some concerns on the A10 I just got as "Brand New"...

Yes the 131 hours used is all mine since I received the A10. This represents 21 days of use out of 24 days total for an Avg. Usage of 6.3 hrs.

If I add 21 days of useage and correct this for the "drying not blowing" cool down period (21 x 0.5 hrs) this would add only 10.5 hours (or 15.8 hrs if it is 45 min) to my used hr time. Even then my total useage time would equal 131 + 13 (avg drying time) = 144. So still, including drying time, my useage time is way lees than the macine Run time by about 13 hours and the "warm up time" has always been set to off. Do you know if Resmed is supposed to send a "New" machine out that has 13 hours of Run time on it, because I thought that it would have only 0 to 1.0 hour of testing at maximum?

I just hate the idea of getting a used machine when I paid over $2000 for "Brand New" plus it seems to have humidity issues as well compared to my S9.

Thanks

Guest
Also Posted As:
(Thumpper62)
 

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby Guest on Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:28 am

tbear wrote:This unit was ordered directly from Resmed
Just curious how does one order directly from Resmed?

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41489
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby Pugsy on Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:29 am

tbear wrote:Do you know if Resmed is supposed to send a "New" machine out that has 13 hours of Run time on it, because I thought that it would have only 0 to 1.0 hour of testing at maximum?


I have no idea what ResMed sends out but the only brand new one that I have ever had...had 0 hours on it.
All my other ResMed machines have been bought used.
Where do you live that you can buy directly from ResMed and not have to use a DME or pharmacy or somebody to go through to be able to purchase directly from ResMed? Here in the US ResMed barely will talk to the patient and never sells to patients.

Have all your sleep sessions been one per day? I mean have you ever had times where the machine was used briefly (like a nap) or you woke up during the night for a short while and turned the machine off...those would also add to cool down run hour usage.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760

tbear
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 pm
Gender: None specified

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby tbear on Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:59 am

Sorry but you fellows are correct in that nobody can apparently buy direct from ResMed

I guess I should explain better. I actually bought this A10 through a local DME, I paid full price up front ~3 weeks ago; they bought it directly from ResMed and it should have been "Brand New". I have complained about this problem about whether this machine was new or not to the DME and they simply told me that all sales are final and that I have to take it up with ResMed. So you can see this DME offered no help. This is the stage I am at and I'm just trying to get some facts together before I contact Resmed.

All my sleep sessions are exactly once a day for an avg of 6.5 hrs.

User avatar
Pugsy
 
Posts: 41489
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:31 am
Location: Missouri, USA
Gender: Female

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby Pugsy on Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:12 am

Ahhh...I see now.
And you didn't think to check the run hours when you first got it to see what it said.

As you probably now realize...DMEs don't always tell the truth. I don't know if you will have much luck with ResMed.
ResMed is likely to throw it back in the DMEs hands and say that they ship machines new with 0.0 hours on them because that is pretty much what they do.

I understand your frustrations. Do what you think you have to do...the machine was used briefly before you got it ...in some fashion or other.
I doubt you will get much satisfaction from the DME but I know if it were me and I was lied to...they wouldn't get a dime of any repeat business from me.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backups..AirCurve 10 ST, S9 Adapt, PR S1 Bipap #760
Last edited by Pugsy on Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Guest
Also Posted As:
(Thumpper62)
 

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby Guest on Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:21 am

tbear wrote:the DME and they simply told me that all sales are final and that I have to take it up with ResMed.
I suspect that Resmed will tell you to take it up with the DME. I also suspect this was used previously by someone who didn't pass compliance.

While I don't think it is right to pass it off as new I doubt there is much you can do about except to complain to the DME, their HQ office, any state agencies ie. Health Dept and/or Consumer Protection. I would then take my business to other providers in your area no matter the outcome. If they deceive you on this what else will they do? They should have at least offered you a discount at the very least.

All that said - the total hours of use really isn't terrible. If you can live with it I would still take my money elsewhere when I needed supplies.

This is just one example of why it is so difficult to choose a DME - I am sure you will also find someone who swears they are the very best ever. If you posted the DME name you will see that is true. It is because no one ever calls these places out this type of behavior continues to happen.

User avatar
palerider
 
Posts: 17562
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).
Gender: Male

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby palerider on Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:59 am

tbear wrote: This is the stage I am at and I'm just trying to get some facts together before I contact Resmed..

you bought it from the DME, you deal with the DME, that's all you'll get from Resmed, that's how all cpap sales are handled.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: S9 Vpap Auto

User avatar
chunkyfrog
 
Posts: 23370
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Husker country--Frost alert!
Gender: Female

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby chunkyfrog on Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:59 am

Every time the machine is stopped and started (even for bathroom breaks), run time is added, but not usage.
---all cool-down time. You may expect a suprising amount of discrepancy if you got up frequently for any reason.
You may register a complaint with ResMed, Medicare, or your insurance, but without proof, it will likely be ignored.
(unless there is an existing portfolio of customer complaints for this DME--one can hope . . . )

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.

User avatar
TASmart
 
Posts: 896
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:23 pm
Location: Eugene, OR
Gender: Male

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby TASmart on Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:05 am

My guess is that you have taken it, accepted it and used it. There is little you can do. What are the other quirks you mentioned? There may be something there to leverage into a warrantee replacement. I am skeptical. I personally feel like its much ado about nothing.

_________________
Machine Mask 
All posts reflect my own opinion based on my experience and reading.
Your mileage may vary
Past performance is no guarantee of future results
Consult with your own physician as people very

tbear
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 pm
Gender: None specified

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby tbear on Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:48 pm

Hello Folks

Much Aloha for all the replys. I just contacted ResMed (or tried to) and the only response I got was to take the issues back up with my DME. The guy did manage to tell me that ResMed would never send out a unit with anything but (0) zero Run Hours on it because it is against the law and I believe them. They also told me that they don't ever deal with the patients at all except for repairs etc. Curiously, when I requested a copy of the A10 shipping date they sent the unit to my DME, according to the unit serial number, ResMed could not give that information out to the patient even though I am the person who bought it. I think if my doctor asked for this information perhaps I would get it.

So the extra hours on my A10 had to come from the DME using the machine prior to my getting it. The tech at my DME has already admitted that he only set my IPAP and EPAP settings and that is all he did.

The other problems I have with this machine are 1) The screen stays so dim at night it can't be read and I cannot adjust the brightness; 2) Even when the lights come on to check the settings in the middle of the night, it takes 2-3 minutes for the screen to brighten up; 3) This A10 seems to have a problem with humidity settings and I have tried everything so it is unuseable to me as is; and 4) My main complaint here is that I got an A10 that was clearly used; however we paid for a Brand New A10 unit by credit card. We have kept all the proof of screenshots of the A10 showing the descripancy between Run Hrs and Use Hrs over the last couple of weeks.

My DME has flat out told us that all sales are final period (even though the only receipt we have doesn't mention any about the sales being final) and they cannot help us at all. This is unacceptabe to us.

I have years if experience with my Resmed S9 VPAP Auto, which I switched back to using and have 0 issues with this machine.

Bottom line, since we haven't gotten any satisfactory response from our DME, we have issued a dispute with my credit card company against this DME and are demanding that they accept a return of this unit and give us a full refund. Please remember that It is definitely not about the money but the fact that we were lied to by our DME and we will not stand for this. Also, which should not be a surprise to anyone, we don't want to deal with this DME ever again.

Thanks and Aloha to all that replied
To those who interested, especially Pugsy, will try to keep you updated on our progress as it may help other users.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
 
Posts: 23370
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Husker country--Frost alert!
Gender: Female

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby chunkyfrog on Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:10 pm

The dim screen is a common complaint.
Some fool at ResMed has failed to realize that as we age, our night vision does not improve.
My solution is a lamp next to the machine, that I turn on before the machine.
The light hits the sensor, and the screen is bright enough to see.
The sensor is that little lens-like spot above the dial and next to the screen.
(((I hope it is not a camera!))) :oops:

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.

tbear
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 pm
Gender: None specified

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby tbear on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:29 pm

Chunkyfrog thanks for your reply,

Boy you got that right! I know the sensor next to the screen controls the dimmer and when the screen is at full brightness I can see it just fine. My problem is that at night the screen is way to dim to see at all and when the lights come on it takes a few minutes for the screen to go bright where I can see it clearly and this is really frustrating.

I thought that this sensor should note the when the lights come on in the room and go to full brightness almost immediately (or with a few seconds like 2-10s).

How long does your ResMed take for your screen to go bright when you turn the lights on? If almost immediately, you can understand why I am wondering if I got a lemon in addition to my other issues.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
 
Posts: 23370
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Husker country--Frost alert!
Gender: Female

Re: How to tell if Bipap is new Run vs Used Hours?

Postby chunkyfrog on Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:33 pm

Since I don't touch the machine until after I turn on the light, the screen is at full brightness as soon as I tap the "home" button.
It takes too long for my taste to wait for the light to brighten if I hit the lamp second--so I do it first.
My lamp is a little LED desk lamp, aimed right at the sensor, in case that helps.
The frog does not like to wait.

_________________
Machine: AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Backup: Devillbiss Intellipap Autoadjust
I once was lost in apnea; but now I'm found--breathing easily all night long.

Next

Return to CPAP and Sleep Apnea (CLICK HERE TO READ POSTS)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: herefishy, Pennywise and 32 guests