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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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chunkyfrog
 
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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby chunkyfrog on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:57 pm

I am happy with my Misfit.
Also happy with all the money I did NOT spend on highly advertised, OVERPRICED gadgets. :mrgreen:

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby Pugsy on Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:36 am

tedtomato wrote:Well, if you think comparing a fitbit device (which can basically only track motion and hear rate) to a machine with a lot of electrodes connected to your head and body (as well as many other sensors), costing $$$, is a reasonable request, then no, it's not.

You have to adjust your expectations a bit.


I don't have to and won't adjust my expectations. Fitbit is the one touting how accurate it is with the new fancy algorithm to come up with educated guesses as to sleep stages...I just want proof of whatever accuracy it really is.
They meet my expectations or they don't get my money.

Hey...they said
Sleep Stages uses accelerometer data, heart rate variability (the time between beats), and proven algorithms to estimate how long you spend in light, deep, and REM sleep stages (as well as time awake) each night.

For Sleep Stages specifically, the Fitbit team conducted extensive internal testing by observing and analyzing several hundred nights of heart rate and movement data from volunteer sleepers while simultaneously comparing that to information gleaned from gold-standard lab equipment. They then used existing research on the connection between heart rate, movement, and sleep stages to develop an automated algorithm that could recognize and track each sleep stage.


They said they could track each sleep stage...I just want to know how accurate it is compared to a EEG sleep study.
I never said it had to match a sleep study exactly. I just want to know how close it comes. I don't think that is an unreasonable request. I actually would be happy with 75% accuracy. I just want to know how much faith I can put in their new fancy algorithm...hey they might be on to something there.
I have no faith in the accelerometer portion by itself. Not since my Fitbit told me I did nearly 8,000 steps when I was on my riding lawn mower.

So when I say I want proof...I want to see how accurate it ends up being when compared to a sleep study for reporting sleep stages. I just want to see how it compares ...I don't expect it to be perfect but I want to know how much faith I can put in whatever it says. That's not unreasonable expectations...that's common sense.

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby tedtomato on Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:33 am

I want... I want... I want...

Myself, I want to win the lottery!

Anyway, the point of this thread was to mainly advise people already owning a recent Fitbit that some interesting updates were coming. Not to get some opinion about whether people should own a Fitbit, or whether a $150 device can be as good as EEG...

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby palerider on Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:36 am

Pugsy wrote:
tedtomato wrote:Well, if you think comparing a fitbit device (which can basically only track motion and hear rate) to a machine with a lot of electrodes connected to your head and body (as well as many other sensors), costing $$$, is a reasonable request, then no, it's not.

You have to adjust your expectations a bit....That's not unreasonable expectations...that's common sense.

it's starting to look like the tomato thinks he's gonna get a commission. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby OkyDoky on Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:53 am

The point is they spend a lot of money to develop and advertise. Why not spend a comparatively small amount to do a simultaneous sleep study analysis to back up their claims. It would be a great selling point if accurate.
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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby D.H. on Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:01 pm

Current tracking on the DreamStation (and comparable devices) does not show whether one is asleep or awake, much less the stages of sleep. Of course, certain events that are logged (obstructive apneas, hyponeas, RERAs, etc.) do imply that the patient was asleep at the onset of the event.

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby Goofproof on Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:11 pm

Personally, I'm holding out for a Tri-Corder. Jim

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.

Postby desiderata on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:02 pm

.
Last edited by desiderata on Sun May 07, 2017 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
To the wonderful, compassionate folks, generous w/their time & info, I sincerely apologize for removing my posts (tho nothing I posted was unique). To newcomers, if you come across ignorance, judgment, hostility: PracticeGoodSelf-Care. MyBestWishes.

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chunkyfrog
 
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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby chunkyfrog on Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:27 pm

Sounds like a cult. "Faith is greater than proof."
I have always felt that any product should stand (and sell) on its own merit,
not on the charisma of the pitchman.

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby Pugsy on Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:42 pm

I want to know the reliability of any product I might choose to use that I might be using to improve sleep or whatever or even maybe cause me to worry or give me a false sense of security.
I don't think that's too much to ask for.

If I was happy with WAGs I would use my cell phone with one of those apps that says it tells you if you are sleeping or not....or blow $150 on the ResMed S thingy that says it can tell sleep stages just by sitting on your night table and not even touching you. Biggest waste of money I have ever seen.
ResMed bought out the Zeo which was a decent enough sleep stage gauge...it's so sad they didn't pursue fine tuning the Zeo.

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tracking sleep stages and SaO2 Pulse Ox

Postby JayR_1945 on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:36 pm

Any word on the potential development of a fingertip Pulse Ox with an actigraph that tracks sleep stages. Both outputs would be of interest to sleep apnea survivors.

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby tmiker on Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:49 pm

I don't expect much from devices determining sleep stages from heart rate and motion alone. Some products are going for sleep quality from Resting Heart Rate, Heart Rate Variation (HRV), and some (Emfit QS) use respiration rate. They take a stab at stages too but they also compare HRV when you first go to sleep versus when waking and derive a recovery value indicating sleep quality -- how much good it did for you physiologically. For a high price wearable you could get the Whoop 2 like many pro atheletes use. From what I have read our subjective view of how much good a given night of sleep does us isn't reliable. All interesting if true Captain.

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby SewTired on Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:13 pm

tedtomato wrote:If they have spent the last 2 years developing the software, I am sure they must have compared their data with proper clinical sleep study data.


I wouldn't count on that. Fitbit is sold as an 'entertainment' device. If they made any other claims, they would require FDA approval.
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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby Citation4444 on Mon May 01, 2017 8:07 pm

I have a ResMed S+ and a fitbit Blaze. Here are what they reported for the same night April 25. They give very different results. Draw your own conclusions. Personally, I think the ResMed S+ is likely to be more accurate.

ResMed S+
Image

Fitbit Blaze
Image

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Re: Some Fitbit devices to start tracking sleep stages

Postby sc0ttt on Tue May 02, 2017 10:58 am

Citation4444 wrote:I have a ResMed S+ and a fitbit Blaze. Here are what they reported for the same night April 25. They give very different results. Draw your own conclusions. Personally, I think the ResMed S+ is likely to be more accurate.


Fitbit Blaze
Image



That's a lot more interesting than the chart I get with my Mio Fuse.
Image


Not sure what I'd use this for but I like charts.

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