REM sleep and Sleepyhead

[Arizona-Willie]

Can you detect REM sleep when looking at Sleepyhead graphs?

[palerider]

Can you detect REM sleep when looking at Sleepyhead graphs?

sometimes you can guess at it, but that's about all.

[CapnLoki]

Can you detect REM sleep when looking at Sleepyhead graphs?

I'm a firm believer that for some people, this can be done. My respiration rate clearly indicate periods of REM, NREM, and being awake - if anything, the last few years of scanning SH has convinced me even more. I understand that for many people the signs are not clear, but the arguments that REM can only be determined by brain waves are nonsense.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94782

[Arizona-Willie]

How do the graphs change when in REM? What indicators do you see? The only thing I've noticed is that I breathe fast and shallow when asleep and slower and deeper when awake. There is a tremendous difference. But while asleep I don't see much change in the graph. Reckon I might need to make it bigger.

[CapnLoki]

During REM my breathing is faster and uneven. NREM is slower and steady, awake is is even slower. My bathroom breaks are almost always following REM. We actually wake after REM, but often roll over and go back to sleep without quite noticing it. The chart I posted shows this, but I could post almost every night and you'd see the same pattern of REM roughly every two hours. The "wisdom" of the group is that respiration rate and REM are unrelated and so displaying respiration is discouraged. Hence, I've seen very few other respiration charts to compare to mine, and I can't tell how frequently this pattern repeats with others.

[Okie bipap]

I agree with you. I have three or four distinct periods during the night where my breathing rate goes up, the tidal volume goes down, and my flow limits increase. I am convinced these are REM sleep periods.

[CapnLoki]

I agree with you. I have three or four distinct periods during the night where my breathing rate goes up, the tidal volume goes down, and my flow limits increase. I am convinced these are REM sleep periods.

Pulled from a post I made several years ago:
From the wiki:

Steady NREM (Non-REM) sleep
Ventilation
Breathing is remarkably regular, both in amplitude and frequency in steady NREM sleep. Steady NREM sleep has the lowest indices of variability of all sleep stages. Minute ventilation decreases by 13% in steady stage II sleep and by 15% in steady slow wave sleep (Stage III and Stage IV sleep). Mean inspiratory flow is decreased but inspiratory duration and respiratory cycle duration are unchanged, resulting in an overall decreased tidal volume.
...
Steady REM Sleep
Ventilation
Irregular breathing with sudden changes in both amplitude and frequency at times interrupted by central apneas lasting 10-30 seconds are noted in Rapid Eye Movement (REM) sleep. (These are physiologic changes and are different from abnormal breathing patterns noted in sleep disordered breathing). These breathing irregularities are not random, but correspond to bursts of eye movements. This breathing pattern is not controlled by the chemoreceptors, but is due to the activation of behavioral respiratory control system by REM sleep processes. Quantitative measure of airflow is quite variable in this sleep stage and has been shown to be increased, decreased or unchanged. Tidal volume has also been shown to be increased, decreased or unchanged by quantitative measures in REM sleep. So breathing during REM sleep is somewhat discordant.

[palerider]

I agree with you. I have three or four distinct periods during the night where my breathing rate goes up, the tidal volume goes down, and my flow limits increase. I am convinced these are REM sleep periods.

if you want to know for sure, buy a zeo on ebay, and chart your sleep stages

[klv329]

I see the same breathing pattern and I assume that that pattern reflects sleep stages, but I can only evaluate the quality of the night's sleep by how I feel during the entire day.