Diet questions for CPAP users

[MrGrumpy]

I will tell you something else I learned in that bariatric program. An adult needs 70 grams of protein a day to avoid general infections. I did not know that until 2014. Im talking about avoiding cold and flu, healing normally if you get a cut, avoiding feeling run down if you physically exert yourself a lot. 70 grams of protein. Thats more than most Americans are getting.

[Krelvin]

OK, you sound like a swim coach. Im not talking about endurance athletes here Im talking about fat people who have to use CPAP gear.

Funny how you ask a question and then go on to lecture how you think it is... If you already know the answer why did you ask? How come you are not following your own info and doing it rather than asking about it?

Im talking about fat people who have to use CPAP gear.

Dieting is not a CPAP thing really. There are lots of people like my neighbor who are not overweight at all that have OSA and use a CPAP machine. There are lots of people who are overweight and don't have OSA issues.

I will tell you something else I learned in that bariatric program. An adult needs 70 grams of protein a day to avoid general infections. I did not know that until 2014. Im talking about avoiding cold and flu, healing normally if you get a cut, avoiding feeling run down if you physically exert yourself a lot. 70 grams of protein. Thats more than most Americans are getting.

The recommended DRI (Dietary Reference Intake) is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or 0.36 grams per pound.

So 70 grams would be for someone who weighs around 190 lbs. If you were on a bariatric program you most likely weigh a lot more than that.

There are other things to consider as well... if you have kidney issues, They will say increase water intake and decrease protein.

You should try a nutrition forum for better info though. where they actually concentrate on nutrition.

[bambiying]

1) I eat a ketogenic diet. I aim for 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs. I started this diet on May 31st and have lost 48 pounds since then.

2) I gave up all soda on May 31st as well. I drink plain water and flavored seltzer water (and alcohol a couple times a week.)

3) I try not to eat carbs. I feel that I'm insulin resistant. I can't lose weight if I eat carbs, and I still have weight to lose.

4) I do not currently exercise.

I will say that losing all that weight hasn't made a darn bit of difference with the sleep apnea. I have it just as bad as I did in May.

[Julie]

Just a reminder... alcohol is pure carb.

[MrGrumpy]

Very true

Just a reminder... alcohol is pure carb.

[MrGrumpy]

When I lost a lot of weight from mid 2014 thru late 2015 (100 lbs approximately), I continued using my Autopap in the weak mode (4-20) the entire time. I found after I lost all that weight that I did not feel the energy I felt when I ran my Autopap from 10 to 20.

I had more energy at a weight of 220 using Autopap at a pressure of 10-20 than I had at a weight of 174 using AutoPap at a pressure of 4-20.

HOWEVER, I did find the really, really super duper oppressive fatigue issues I have at a weight of 230 and above using Autopap at a pressure of 4-20 decreased to what I'd describe as a "tolerable" level when I lost weight and got down to around 220 lbs. Definitely by the time I got down to 210 lbs. Still a lot of fatigue but not the level of oppressive fatigue I experience when totally porked out.

So the moral of this story is weight does contribute to obstructive sleep apnea. Anybody in denial of that has something wrong with them. On the other hand, I totally agree that excess weight is not all of the story on obstructive sleep apnea. I know so because Im one of the few people I know of who has lost a huge amount of weight on Autopap and I know what I felt like when I started and I know what I felt like when I finished losing weight.

Pressures DID go down some, but never got under the 9s even at a weight of 174.

Nutrition is on topic on this sleep apnea forum.

Im talking about fat people who have to use CPAP gear.

Dieting is not a CPAP thing really. There are lots of people like my neighbor who are not overweight at all that have OSA and use a CPAP machine. There are lots of people who are overweight and don't have OSA issues.

You should try a nutrition forum for better info though. where they actually concentrate on nutrition.

[MrGrumpy]

They had one of those supervised ketogenic diets in the bariatric program I was in. It cost several hundred extra bucks to be in, I dont think it was covered by health insurance.

The diet they had me on was a "canned" bariatric diet. 120 grams protein daily, divided into three 40 grams of protein at each meal. They had us cut our simple sugars out completely or real close to completely. They had our starch carbs cut down pretty tight but not to the ketogenic levels. Lots of water. Lots of exercise. I found the weight came off easy with that diet and eating high protein you really dont get that hungry between meals.

I'd consider a ketogenic diet now, before that program I was in, I'd NEVER consider a ketogenic diet.

1) I eat a ketogenic diet. I aim for 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs. I started this diet on May 31st and have lost 48 pounds since then.

2) I gave up all soda on May 31st as well. I drink plain water and flavored seltzer water (and alcohol a couple times a week.)

3) I try not to eat carbs. I feel that I'm insulin resistant. I can't lose weight if I eat carbs, and I still have weight to lose.

4) I do not currently exercise.

I will say that losing all that weight hasn't made a darn bit of difference with the sleep apnea. I have it just as bad as I did in May.

[purple22]

Diabetes is nearly a co disease with sleep apnea. Or at least some form of pre diabetes. So the question is, "How sure are you that you are not a diabetic? or edging closer to diabetes?

[SewTired]

First, I want to say that I agree about a HIGH carb diet being a problem. However, a normal carb diet is perfectly fine. The quantity of carbs Americans eat is substantially higher than the 50s (just look at the serving sizes). HIGH protein diets have a number of health impacts and you have to weigh the pros and cons and your personal health issues against them. For instance, a high protein diet can increase your blood clotting which in turn increases your risk of heart attack or stroke. Family member increased their protein and ended up having to double their wafarin dose as a result.

1) I eat between 75 and 96 gr. protein a day. Keep in mind that the protein calculators are a STARTING point. Many people will find that they don't need as much protein that the calculator comes up with after a couple of weeks. Just cutting down the carbs makes you less hungry.

2) I have a diet soda maybe twice a week. I use artificial sweetener in my coffee daily.

3) If you eat too many calories, you are going to gain weight. Even on low carb diets. However if you have diabetes, low or lowish carb diets are really the only way to go until you get your blood sugars back to a NORMAL range. There are some diabetics who don't respond to these diets though.

4) It would not be a surprise that untreated apnea contributes to weight gain. Tired people exercise less. They take shortcuts because they are tired. I won't comment on the metabolism issue.

[chunkyfrog]

What is "normal"? The ADA's recommendations are suspiciously in phase with selling drugs and insulin.
In the hospital, I was given no less than 60 grams of carbohydrates per meal--once over 90!
This is way too much for me; and I would need to mainline insulin just to have reasonable glucose levels.

[Janknitz]

Here's what has worked for me to lose 75 lbs and keep it off for nearly six years. I'm not telling anybody else that they have to do this:

1) do you eat a lot of protein? And if not, why? Are your meals based around protein or more around carbs? In America at least, high carb diets are ruining the health of Americans. Lean protein should be the core of major meals I eat a moderate protein diet. When I calculate macros I aim for about 0.7 g of protein per kg of lean body mass--which is very appropriate for a sedentary middle aged woman. Higher protein is not effective for me. I'm highly insulin resistant, and there is evidence suggesting that excess protein may raise blood glucose and insulin levels through gluconeogenesis. I get that there's a lot of debate in science about gluconeogenesis, but I don't see any benefit from eating more protein than I'm hungry for--about 2-3 oz servings up to 3 times a day. I do some intermittent fasting, so I often skip the morning meal's protein. I use natural fat instead of protein to round out my meals. BTW, since adopting my LCHF diet, I almost NEVER get sick. So obviously my protein is adequate, if your theory is that your immune system needs a certain level of protein.

2) do you drink a lot of diet sodas? Diet sodas and artificial sweeteners are now being implicated in causing weight gain because of the changes they cause in the gut, increasing "bad bacteria" which causes weight gain. The science and research behind this is complicated but is out there if you google it. I learned about it from my bariatric specialist a year back. No diet sodas--no sweetened drinks of any kind. My NY resolution was NO sweeteners of ANY kind in anything for as long as I can hold out this year. Last time I did this I lasted six months. It's HARD, but I reap the benefits because I crave sweets less and real food tastes great to me. When I do use sweeteners, I use them sparingly and I choose erythritol and occasionally xylitol in their pure forms. I can't stand stevia. According to studies, those two sweeteners have a low impact on INSULIN levels, and since I regard hyperinsulemia/insulin resistance as a major issue for me they are supposed to have the least effect. I do eat a lot of fermented foods and some probiotics to make a good environment for favorable gut bacteria.

3) do you think most Americans, including yourself, eat way too many carbs and too much simple sugars? Carbs and simple sugars contribute to insulin resistance whether you are diabetic or not and insulin resistance makes it easier to gain excess weight and harder to lose excess weight Absolutely, I fully believe the insulin hypothesis is correct. I eat very few carbs, though I'm less anal about it than I was in the active weight loss phase. I'll allow myself VERY SMALL servings of potato, sweet potato and winter squash a few times a week. Generally, I try to keep my total carbs below 50 g/day, and aim for about 30 net carbs per day. Six years, almost.

4) do you attempt to integrate activities that speed up your resting metabolism? Specifically weight training, muscle burns calories even when sleeping whereas fat tissue burns nothing at rest. Also, sleep quality has a lot to do with the speed of your metabolism and untreated apnea is known for contributing to a slow metabolism. I've never been an athletic person and I'm not going to start now. I walk several miles a week, do gentle, Hatha yoga, and some very wimpy kettlebell work. It's probably not enough to revv up the insulin sensitivity of my muscles, but it's all I got.

[MrGrumpy]

Im not sure right now. I have not been to my primary care doc in six months. Last blood work I was not a diabetic. I have been told I am at high risk of type II diabetes because of my weight. Ive been told I am basically metabolic syndrome but not reporting elevated glucose (yet).

Im not in denial of anything, thats why I brought this topic of.

BTW, the bariatric diet I was put on was basically a lose weight diet for already established type II diabetics. The diet they use is a "canned" high protein, low sugar, moderate carb diet. Protein and fats release insulin less than carbs.

Diabetes is nearly a co disease with sleep apnea. Or at least some form of pre diabetes. So the question is, "How sure are you that you are not a diabetic? or edging closer to diabetes?

[Janknitz]

McGrumpy,

Required reading for you is Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. by Richard K. Bernstein. You can start at their website until you get your hands on the book: http://www.diabetes-book.com/read-onlin ... -solution/

And if you are waiting for the official diagnosis, your reading this should help you understand why that's a very bad idea. Besides, the professional advice is ridiculous--they will tell you to eat lots of carbs and take lots of medicine.

Also highly recommended: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/ (based on Bernstein's principles)

And if you are more visually or auditorially oriented: Dr. Bernstein's YouTube Diabetes University https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFNGdKSXx64

When you are done there, go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAwgdX5VxGc

[MrGrumpy]

It is also the food pyramid that most Americans go by (Im talking about Americans here I dont know about diet education in other countries like Canada). The traditional food pyramid is like I mentioned, the base of it is grain products. Carbs. Go to ANY decent weight loss program anywhere and if you go to a grocery store tour with them, when you get to the cereal isle and the bread isle, the dietician leading the grocery store tour will tell you, "basically just bypass the cereal aisle if you are trying to lose weight or keep your weight down. Its just high glycemic carbs, mostly." Thats what my dietician told me on my grocery store tour.

The food pyramid got the way it was not by accident. It got that way because of grain sellers paying lobbyists to go to D.C. way, way, way on back...like the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s...and getting the politicians in charge of the FDA and agencies who profess to be experts in nutrition at NIH to claim that "whole grain food products make us healthy."

Lot of politics, lot of lobbying, lot of grain farmers growing wheat and corn wanting to sell their grain to the American public. Grains are carbs and carbs release insulin way faster than protein and fats and this country has a massive type II diabetes and obesity problem now. What can I say? Maybe, think for yourself? Enroll in a bariatric weight loss program that has dieticians and doctor specialists in bariatrics, who actually are interested in nutrition and exercise?

What is "normal"? The ADA's recommendations are suspiciously in phase with selling drugs and insulin.
In the hospital, I was given no less than 60 grams of carbohydrates per meal--once over 90!
This is way too much for me; and I would need to mainline insulin just to have reasonable glucose levels.

[jnk...]

https://youtu.be/r8uSv6OgHJE
https://youtu.be/Qk0U006YZ2w