Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Julie
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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Julie » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:28 am

JNK, thank you! It never ceases to amaze me how people give themselves permission to blast others when (apparently) they see someone else has done it even though what they've said in the thread may also be a total crock. It is absolutely about everyone's opinions, wrong or cuckoo as they might be, and a whole lot more tolerance and less schoolyard bully attitude would help everyone to at least look like adults whatever they post rather than jumping on bandwagons. I posted what I did because I couldn't understand why people felt it necessary to keep trashing that study - in no way am I defending it and agree it was crap - but why go after me for expressing that (of all things)? To those who made intelligent counter arguments for continuing, good for you, it's a free world, but the rest of you are just sad.

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by DreamStalker » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:30 am

Julie wrote:JNK, thank you! It never ceases to amaze me how people give themselves permission to blast others when (apparently) they see someone else has done it even though what they've said in the thread may also be a total crock. It is absolutely about everyone's opinions, wrong or cuckoo as they might be, and a whole lot more tolerance and less schoolyard bully attitude would help everyone to at least look like adults whatever they post rather than jumping on bandwagons. I posted what I did because I couldn't understand why people felt it necessary to keep trashing that study - in no way am I defending it and agree it was crap - but why go after me for expressing that (of all things)? To those who made intelligent counter arguments for continuing, good for you, it's a free world, but the rest of you are just sad.
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Pneumophile » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:33 am

Many posters, including myself, are continuing to ANALYZE, interpret and discuss this study. Why oh why do you have a problem with that?

Or is it enough for you to say it's trash and let's all move on. You really have no further useful role here in my opinion unless you are willing to further DISCUSS THE PAPER.

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by jnk... » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:41 am

I am only aware of one "saint" having been on this forum. Maybe two.

Rested Gal and Pugsy.
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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Pneumophile » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:01 am

You're right about Pugsy - I wouldn't know about the other poster.

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by jnk... » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:28 am

Pneumophile wrote:. . . Never underestimate the importance of literacy, as I'mmsure you agree. . . .
Yes and no. I would never take a position against literacy. But I have learned some of the most important lessons in my life from the profoundly illiterate. So I would qualify with, 'also never underestimate the power of a useful observation or idea, regardless of any tendencies to judge the seeming literacy of the speaker/signer/writer/thinker.'

One problem with the forum format is that bad spellers and nonstandard-grammar speakers/writers can easily become unfairly marginalized. Some of this world's worst lies throughout history were more easily swallowed because of the elegance of the words; some of the most profound truths have been spoken by the unlettered and ordinary. I was raised in the mountain culture of eastern Kentucky. I knew great men who could not read, and I knew highly literate men who could not be trusted.

There is a long tradition in this forum of no one owning the thread--not even the original poster. It is the most public of the public forums, 'lightly moderated' (words that still make me giggle ), so it often lacks some of the common mores found in the technical and literary forums. In a medical forum that aims at being welcoming to the public at large, regardless of literacy level, it can be especially helpful for us to set the example as best we can by being welcoming to one another, in my opinion, even when having major disagreements on the point at hand. That will make the place look safe to someone with a life-and-death question but with less schooling than some others. Pugsy is better able to do her work when EVERYONE feels safe here, I believe.

But hey, that's just me and the words I tell myself whenever I feel most like blasting someone.
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Julie
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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Julie » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:10 pm

Pneumo - why does it bother you so much that I expressed my PERSONAL opinion about 'moving on'? Why does it matter to you that I felt the issue had been more than addressed and dissected to the point of going circular? It's my opinion, but all you had to do is ignore it and keep arguing your case against the paper... I have no control over what you say, I'm in no position to stop you ranting on about it, so why is your response to my suggestion re letting the thing die so nasty? Do you believe that only those who agree with you deserve respect?

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Pneumophile » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:34 pm

You can of course express your opinion here ..... and so can I. We can agree on that. I have expressed my view of the lack of value of your recent posts here and won't belabor the point now. You accuse me of disrespecting you (which I dispute but never mind) - just what do you think you have been doing to those who have been trying to continue the debate on the science? You really aren't getting it for some reason. For one thing you accuse me of "ranting". Perhaps someone like you would consider a Ph.D. defense or a debate at a scientifc meeting to be a "rant". That's how you come across to me but others may differ.

Let's get back to the substance of the blasted paper. What is your view of the exclusion criteria, including the one that was recently discussed? Maybe I missed it in all the kaffufel ....
btw, have you read the paper in its entirety?

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Julie » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:55 pm

You don't get it - I don't want to continue debating the merits or their lack any longer in this or any thread, though you of course are free to do that. My problem is that you attacked me personally for my suggestion that the thread be let go, not because you disagreed with my take on the paper... and even if what I may have said about the paper was gibberish in your eyes, that is still not a reason to make things personal or go after me on a wrong premise (i.e. that my critique of the paper didn't match yours) vs my point about letting the issue die.

You're new here, so at the risk of boring everyone else who's heard this 50 times I'm sure, I'll throw in this info for your enlightenment - my entire working life was spent in research depts of major teaching hospitals working for scientists of major repute, a couple of whom were shortlisted for Nobels (won't name them here, tho' if you really care I'll do it in a PM). I spent many years helping to put together papers for publication in the most respected journals there are and every day of my life could not wait to get to work because the atmosphere was so exciting and I learned something new every day. Now, that does not make me a scientist, it does not mean I choose now to get into the finer points (many of which are not actually scientific but about money etc... some of which applies only to U.S. issues which I cannot speak to) of the paper, and I certainly could be wrong about some scientific point I made re the paper, but nowhere I think does that justify your personal attack rather than just making an argument based on the scientific points of the paper. That's bloody all!

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by DreamStalker » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:11 pm

Julie wrote:You don't get it - I don't want to continue debating the merits or their lack any longer in this or any thread, though you of course are free to do that. My problem is that you attacked me personally for my suggestion that the thread be let go, not because you disagreed with my take on the paper... and even if what I may have said about the paper was gibberish in your eyes, that is still not a reason to make things personal or go after me on a wrong premise (i.e. that my critique of the paper didn't match yours) vs my point about letting the issue die.

You're new here, so at the risk of boring everyone else who's heard this 50 times I'm sure, I'll throw in this info for your enlightenment - my entire working life was spent in research depts of major teaching hospitals working for scientists of major repute, a couple of whom were shortlisted for Nobels (won't name them here, tho' if you really care I'll do it in a PM). I spent many years helping to put together papers for publication in the most respected journals there are and every day of my life could not wait to get to work because the atmosphere was so exciting and I learned something new every day. Now, that does not make me a scientist, it does not mean I choose now to get into the finer points (many of which are not actually scientific but about money etc... some of which applies only to U.S. issues which I cannot speak to) of the paper, and I certainly could be wrong about some scientific point I made re the paper, but nowhere I think does that justify your personal attack rather than just making an argument based on the scientific points of the paper. That's bloody all!
President-pretender, J. Biden, said "the DNC has built the largest voter fraud organization in US history". Too bad they didn’t build the smartest voter fraud organization and got caught.

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Pneumophile » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:40 pm

Let's leave it there Julie. It's great that you have all of that experience of working with and around scientists and preparing manuscripts. I respect that greatly. I've written a few dozen papers myself over the years and have collaborated with some well known people (oncology, metabolic diseases, dermatology, inflammation), in the US and the UK mostly. It's a big part of what I miss now that I'm retired.

Let's agree: I'll try not to be so harsh and you please allow discussion to continue in threads without complaint, even though you think every last scientifc point has been made and it's all a bunch of BS from "ranters" like yours truly.

Cheers!
p.s. I shall read some of your posts on other threads and maybe learn more about your research experiences at major teaching hospitals. I've done a bit of that myself.

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Julie
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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Julie » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:12 pm

"please allow discussion to continue"

as if I have any say in it at all!

However, glad to know you have a smidgen of understanding about it. I think we've been doing apples and oranges as far as issues go.

However I will complain all I like if I want to, so sorry to not comply with your ask.

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by jnk... » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:20 pm

Julie wrote:. . . That's bloody all!
Julie said a dirty word! Julie said a dirty word! Oh, wait, Canada isn't in the UK anymore, is it? I forgot. Never mind.
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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by palerider » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:40 pm

jnk... wrote:Oh, wait, Canada isn't in the UK anymore, is it? I forgot. Never mind.
they've still got the queen on their money, so, close enough

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Re: Study: "CPAP machines do not reduce heart attack, strokes"

Post by Pneumophile » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:10 pm

jnk... wrote:
Julie wrote:. . . That's bloody all!
Julie said a dirty word! Julie said a dirty word! Oh, wait, Canada isn't in the UK anymore, is it? I forgot. Never mind.
If I had a dollar for every time I said "bloody this" or "bloody that" when I returned to the US from England after 25 years .....

Seriously: I've never understood what is so bad about saying that particular 'b' word here in the US? Enlighten me please. I have learned to almost completely eliminate it, but only at great personal cost

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