Machine malfunctioning/shuts off if I exhale too hard-FIXED!

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blakepro
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Machine malfunctioning/shuts off if I exhale too hard-FIXED!

Post by blakepro » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:58 am

Hello everyone. I'm having a problem with my PRS1 50. I bought it in 2010.

Basically, the machine has been shutting off and rebooting randomly at night. I've woken up several times when it happens but I have no idea how frequently its occurring. At first I thought it might be a problem with the power cord and perhaps rolling over and causing the machine to get bumped and lose power momentarily. (because that's what the behavior is like... like you unplugged it and plugged it back in.)

Anyway. This morning, I finally figured out what is doing it and how to reliably reproduce the problem. Basically, if I exhale too hard, the machine "reboots"... it shuts off, restarts and then starts blowing again after a few seconds. While testing this, I discovered that if I exhale really hard, the machine will actually freak out: It stops blowing, beeps rapidly, the ramp button starts flashing rapidly and the screen says "service required". When this happens, the only way to make the machine work again is to unplug it and then plug it back in.

I know I've had the machine for about 5 years and that's a pretty long time, but I was hoping it would last longer.

Questions:
1: Have any of you had this problem?
2: is there a way to fix this? If so, is it worth it?
3: Is it dangerous to keep using the machine as it is currently?
4: If I have to buy a new one, is there a place to sell my old broken machine for parts or anything? Recycling? etc?

In January, I'll have my flexible spending account renewed and I could use that money for a new machine at that time, but it seems like a long way away to deal with the problem.


EDIT!
The solution has been found! If you are having a problem with this on your machine, read on in the thread to see the solution involving a simple screw.
Last edited by blakepro on Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Pugsy
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by Pugsy » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:21 am

Give acbio.com a call.
http://www.acbio.com/

It's going to cost at least $200 to $300 most likely to fix it and I would put that money towards a new machine or gently used machine if it were me.

cpap.com has some good deals on the 60 series PR S1 machines now that the new Respironics DreamStation is out if you want to stay with Respironics.

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blakepro
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by blakepro » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:28 am

Pugsy wrote: cpap.com has some good deals on the 60 series PR S1 machines now that the new Respironics DreamStation is out if you want to stay with Respironics.
I didn't even realize the DreamStation existed. Based on my initial look into it, it seems like it doesn't really do anything the PR1 60 doesn't do. Is that a fair assumption? I mean, besides things that don't really matter to my therapy (like the color screen and such)

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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by Pugsy » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:40 am

I haven't looked at the DreamStation specs much but from what I gather...nothing in terms of therapy or how the machine does its job or even reporting the events has changed.
It does appear that a heated hose is now easily added...I need to verify...instead of having to use a different lid and power supply...so that would be a plus I would think (important to some and not to others).

But in terms of how it blows air and records events and responds with its algorithm....I don't think any of that has changed.

There is a new version of Encore Pro now...released after the DreamStation release which I assume will be compatible but I haven't been able to get it installed to verify.
SleepyHead won't work yet and its unknown when Mark will get SH updated.
Prior Encore versions won't work though.

Minor cosmetic changes mainly which are might be important to some and not others.
I don't know if there is a noticeable change in the noise level but I wouldn't be a good one to compare as I think the PR S1 machines aren't particularly noisy to start with. Any noise I hear is conductive inhale and exhale and not machine anyway no matter what machine I am using.
Hubby says they have all been silent..even the old M series that people said were jet engines taking off

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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:23 am

Everybody should have a backup machine, just in case.
I used my Flex for primary and for travel/backup machines.

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Wulfman...
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by Wulfman... » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:50 am

blakepro wrote:Hello everyone. I'm having a problem with my PRS1 50. I bought it in 2010.

Basically, the machine has been shutting off and rebooting randomly at night. I've woken up several times when it happens but I have no idea how frequently its occurring. At first I thought it might be a problem with the power cord and perhaps rolling over and causing the machine to get bumped and lose power momentarily. (because that's what the behavior is like... like you unplugged it and plugged it back in.)

Anyway. This morning, I finally figured out what is doing it and how to reliably reproduce the problem. Basically, if I exhale too hard, the machine "reboots"... it shuts off, restarts and then starts blowing again after a few seconds. While testing this, I discovered that if I exhale really hard, the machine will actually freak out: It stops blowing, beeps rapidly, the ramp button starts flashing rapidly and the screen says "service required". When this happens, the only way to make the machine work again is to unplug it and then plug it back in.

I know I've had the machine for about 5 years and that's a pretty long time, but I was hoping it would last longer.

Questions:
1: Have any of you had this problem?
2: is there a way to fix this? If so, is it worth it?
3: Is it dangerous to keep using the machine as it is currently?
4: If I have to buy a new one, is there a place to sell my old broken machine for parts or anything? Recycling? etc?

In January, I'll have my flexible spending account renewed and I could use that money for a new machine at that time, but it seems like a long way away to deal with the problem.
Didn't I give you the name of one of my contacts in SLC some time back?........ "DFS, Inc."
I haven't touched base with them for a few years, but I bought some of my machines from them and directed some others to them. I THINK they're still in business. They also do some repairs on them, too.


Den

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yaconsult
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by yaconsult » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:25 am

Is this the 550P model? If so, it could be the infamous missing screw problem that is easily fixed. Here is one thread about it from when I had the problem: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106093

If it's a 560 or other model, then the above does not apply. I always make sure to have at least one working backup machine on hand at all times - sleep is not possible without cpap.

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blakepro
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by blakepro » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:14 pm

Wulfman... wrote: Didn't I give you the name of one of my contacts in SLC some time back?........ "DFS, Inc."
Yes you did. Thank you for the reminder. They sound like a good resource.
chunkyfrog wrote:Everybody should have a backup machine, just in case.
I agree! A few people mentioned this. I actually do have an old non-auto I can use for emergencies if I need to. (but I far prefer the auto)
yaconsult wrote:Is this the 550P model? If so, it could be the infamous missing screw problem that is easily fixed. Here is one thread about it from when I had the problem: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106093

If it's a 560 or other model, then the above does not apply.
Thank you for letting me know about this yaconsult! I opened up my machine, and sure enough, no screw there in the spot mentioned in the thread you linked to. It's actually crazy to me: The whole circuit board is able to wiggle around and float up and down and its easy to see how the pressure sensor might become disrupted by something like extra force caused by a big exhale.

The thread recommended using a #8 x 1/2 sheet metal screw and I happened to have one so I used it and I have to say it fit perfectly in the screw hole.

I put the machine back together and fired it up. NO MORE ERRORS. NO MORE BEEPS! I can no longer get it to shut off by forcefully exhaling into my mask. I even tried as hard as I could and it just ran like a champ. So, it appears that its been fixed! If its not, I can no longer reproduce the problem! I'm pretty sure its fixed.

Anyway, I want to thank all of the people that took the time to comment on the thread to help me out:
Pugsy for their helpful information about repair and replacement options.
Chunkyfrog and Yaconsult for good reminders that a backup machine is so important.
Wulfman for reminding me about a helpful resource I had forgotten about
Yaconsult for realizing what the problem was, finding the actual thread to help me and for helping me and my family save some money by keeping this old machine running for a while longer.

Thanks everyone! I hope this thread might help someone else in the future that may run into the same problem.

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Wulfman...
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by Wulfman... » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:19 pm

Glad to hear you got the problem fixed (crosses fingers).
I'll try to make a mental note of that solution fixing that problem. I knew about that "fix-it" thread and the missing screw, I just didn't remember what it was supposed to fix. I was thinking something about the humidifier or some other problem.


Den

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sleepylynn
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by sleepylynn » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:53 pm

Just want to say thanks for this thread! Both my main and backup machines are PRS1 50s, so I'll be filing this away just in case.

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blakepro
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by blakepro » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:01 am

Wulfman... wrote:Glad to hear you got the problem fixed (crosses fingers).
I'll try to make a mental note of that solution fixing that problem. I knew about that "fix-it" thread and the missing screw, I just didn't remember what it was supposed to fix. I was thinking something about the humidifier or some other problem.
.
Basically, under the screw hole on the circuit board are the pressure and flow ports:
Image

These ports press against the pressure and flow sensors on the circuit board and try to maintain a seal against the board. Without the screw, the board can move and shift. I'm guessing that when I exhale too hard, it would push against the circuit board hard enough to make it break the seal momentarily, causing the errors and power cycle of the machine.

The screw ensures that the board stays put and the ports maintain a proper seal against the circuit board even when the pressure spikes.

I would speculate that putting the screw in could also cause more accurate and better performing therapy adjustments.

By the way, to anyone thinking of performing this repair: Its super easy. You undo two screws on the bottom of the machine and then the top flips off and you have access right there to add the screw. (without any further disassembly required.

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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by grayghost4 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:19 am

Be proactive .... stop by the hardware store and get a sheet metal screw and a #15 Torx screw driver ( for the two screws on the bottom) and fix it before it malfunctions.
If you're not part of the solution you're just scumming up the bottom of the beaker!

Get the Clinicians manual here : http://apneaboard.com/adjust-cpap-press ... tup-manual

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Re: Machine malfunctioning, STANDARDARDIZED TROUBLE SHOOTING

Post by gregzeng » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:39 am

https://www.google.com.au/search?client ... 8&oe=UTF-8

was the second search on your post.

Google led me to the faults & remedies to your problem. If the solution is on YouTube, Google will also show this.

I like the advice given to you:
KEEP THE OLD MACHINE AS BACKUP.

When travelling, or staying away from home unexpectedly, but not in hospital,
I also have many emergency backup procedures, not needing a CPAP machine. One day perhaps I might be allowed to share these here?

I read the OP, because no comments were made of the obvious: MAINTENANCE SCHEDULES. Did you do this?
Did you maintain it properly? Did you follow the troubleshooting procedures?

Such an old machine often means these maintenance & troubleshooting stuff needs to be done, but without the original manual around. Most times, these manuals cannot be found on the internet either.

If such standard maintenance & troubleshooting stuff is not yet available yet, I could write it now. Personally I do not need it for myself. But most other endusers and institutions need it.

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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by woodworkerjunkie » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:36 am

I haven't been around for a while. I have been dealing with this problem for over a year and a half, and at one point thought I had it fixed. It started acting up again about a month later. I got tired of fighting with it, threw it in the closet and started using my backup. I just happened to check in tonight and see this post. I've already taken the machine apart and installed my screw and keeping my fingers crossed, that this will finally fix it. My backup machine doesn't record data, and I have no idea how well my sleep has been going for the past 10 or 12 months. Thanks to everyone for this post and the info. to fix the machine, I hope!

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blakepro
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Re: Machine malfunctioning / shutting off if I exhale too hard

Post by blakepro » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:03 am

woodworkerjunkie wrote:I've already taken the machine apart and installed my screw and keeping my fingers crossed, that this will finally fix it.
I'm glad it was able to help you. I've done one night so far without any problems. Will you please return and report your results as well?