What is the quietest cpap?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Julie
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by Julie » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:31 pm

I think each individual machine, regardless of brand or model probably has its own personality, especially given that we all treat them slightly differently (drawer, towel, mouse pad, table, etc) and we all have different sensitivities to sound. Isn't it time you just got a machine with a decent rep and good reviews, or do you want to exhaust yourself looking for the perfect machine (that may itself turn out not to be 100% for you depending on the day?
Last edited by Julie on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wulfman...
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by Wulfman... » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:50 pm

lindalam89 wrote:I place the remstar in the lower drawer of my nightstand with towels underneath to reduce vibration. The hose has a Phillips respironics tube cozy... It's a waterproof material not very thick. I also place the tube under my blanket.

The Amara view is the only mask I tolerate. The pillows made me feel like I was suffocating and so did the nasal mask. The other full face masks were not tight enough on the bridge. I have a flat plane there.

I'm getting confused now. So the resmed and remstar have the same sound level?

I wouldn't call it silent. I've used several remstar... 3 different cpap of the same model.

The best I can do is keep it on apap mode so it starts on 4cm water pressure.

Are you guys saying that if I used my savings to buy sat a s9 or air sense, I will be disappointed since there won't be much difference in sound?
lindalam89 wrote:Philips Respironics System One (60 Series)
RemStar Auto with A-FlexModel 560P - P1399607753A2
PAP Mode: APAP (Variable)
Min 5.5 Max 12 (cmH2O)

humidifier: 4
Full face mask. I've used the amara full view and the f10 the most.
I disagree.

"Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is called...........____________"


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
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Therapist
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by Therapist » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:00 pm

lindalam89 wrote:Definitely breathing noise from air tunneling inside me ON CPAP. I wear earplugs
When I wear earplugs, my breathing in the tube sounds very loud, and it sounds like it is inside my head.

When I don't wear earplugs, I don't hear my breathing.

I believe, if you are going to insist on wearing earplugs, you are going to hear your breathing no matter what machine you use.

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Pugsy
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by Pugsy » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:10 pm

I don't know that a different machine would offer you that much less noise because I think that the bulk of your noise that bugs you is related to the mask and the inhale/exhale function itself.
I could be wrong but having used both brands (ResMed and Respironics) I will admit that I think the ResMed is a tiny bit (and I mean a tiny, tiny bit) less noisy in terms of the inhale/exhale noise....I just don't know if it will be enough for you and I hate to tell you that it would be worth that much money to you.

Now if you could find a gently used S9 AutoSet that is priced reasonably...it might be worth trying.

I also don't know how much the mask itself is possibly contributing to the noise. They all do to some extent but some more than others and I haven't had a chance to try the Amara View to see if it is just maybe a little bit noisier than some of the others. It's been on my list of masks to try but have been waiting for my 6 month insurance allowance to roll around due to its cost. If I get it from my DME and hate it they let me swap it out for something else that I know will work and they don't hassle me about it.

I don't know what to tell you about the Intellipap you are trying because I don't know which model or its age and I have never tried one. People say their Intellipaps are near silent but again we have both PR S1 and ResMed users saying the same thing. A lot of it is personal perception and there's just no way to compare personal perception unless you and I are standing side by side and hearing the same noise.

You have a UARS diagnosis don't you? I wish there was a way you could try the new ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her model machine. There's that special apap mode that might (I don't know for certain that it would) help your situation. It's supposed to be a little gentler in how it addresses things which might (stress the might) be of benefit for UARS patients. The jury is still out on anything definite but I figure that it never hurts to have all possible options available if at all possible.

My S9 and my PR S1 are both silent in terms of machine noise but I do hear normal breathing noises if I listen for them. Those breathing noises have varied over the years depending on the mask that I have used.
My current mask is probably the most silent of all the masks I have ever tried but it is a nasal pillow mask and you say you didn't do well with that type of mask.

The ear plugs are simply going to amplify the breathing noise...stick your fingers in your ears right now while awake and breathe in and out...now do the same thing without the fingers in your ears. I can barely hear my breathing if I listen without plugging up my ears but if I stick my fingers in my ears all I can hear is my breathing. The ear plugs aren't helping matters.

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Wulfman...
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by Wulfman... » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:36 pm

Exactly! Ear plugs can keep out or lessen loud, external noises but can exacerbate internal noises........like breathing.


Den

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(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
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KeepSmiling
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by KeepSmiling » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:03 pm

[quote="lindalam89" ]
... I tried going back to apap mode with the lowest pressure setting. The sound as reduced a lot but my basis watch still says I have no deep sleep. I only get slightly deeper sleep without the cpap[/quote]

How does the Basis watch know when you go into deep sleep.

It has these sensors:

Four sensors. 24/7 insights.

Optical heart rate engine, 3-axis accelerometer, Skin temperature and Galvanic skin response.

I am not sure how accurate Arousals are, but since it monitors breathing, I think it may be accurate to some degree.

Other then electrodes to the head, I would not think other methods would be as accurate indicating which sleep level one is in.

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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by KeepSmiling » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:14 pm

Linda,

I have not figured out how to deal with the noise I hear in the mask.

I do not know if the way the different machines let you breath out changes the noise level or type of noise.

Before spending money trying to get the quietest machine, I would suggest you get some one to wear your mask and turn on the machine. make sure there are no leaks from the mask then see how quiet the machine is.



I find that the machines are very quiet. If you hear noise, is it coming from the machine itself? Could be normal or an issue with the machine.

Where are the different noises heard.

Machine:
Are all filters in place.
Any leaks in humidifier

Hold the tubing, does noise decrease. Wrap it in a towel how is the noise from the tube.

What about the two ends of the hose where they connect to the machine, do they make noise. If the machine is quiet try a different hose see if there is a difference.

For the mask, is the noise different depending on how you place the hose etc.

Can you go to a DME and listen to a same model machine? Maybe there is an issue with the machine.

You are your best advocate, it is an adventure and you need to investigate all the parts to see what is the worse noise and start from there if possible.

Good luck.

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lindalam89
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by lindalam89 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:29 pm

The problem is I rather hear my breathing instead of environment noise and the whistle the machine makes. So I've compromised by using 29 decibel ear plugs.

I'm getting worn out from not sleeping.

I guess my next question is... I could buy an airsense and sell my remstar if I end up liking it. Where do I sell my cpap? It's barely used, the one I'm currently using. If it's okay to post an ad here. I would sell it. That way I can lower the financial burden and try something new.

Pugsy, could you send me a direct link from cpap.com on the version of airsense you think would help UARS?


Also I might make a new post on this but which is quieter the S9 or airsense? The specs show the air sense has a higher decibel rating than the S9 but the air sense is newer technology.

The basis watch was reccomended by Stanford. They said out of all the fitness watches, the basis was built by scientists. And I've worn the watch during my psg study. It is fairly accurate. The only problem is light sleep can be awake. But both rem and deep sleep on the watch is measured by a heart rate, and skin temperature algorithm.

I've used the cpap from kaiser and also the one I was sent. Both sound the same. My bf says to him they all sound quiet. He admits there is a slight up and down noise but he said just imagine you are sleeping with clogged sinus. Sorry but even with the flu, I've never breathed that loud in my life. Now I admit I have heard other people breathe that loud but not me. I'm however a shallow breather so that probably adds to the reason why I typically don't hear myself breathe... Even with earplugs. But now with the cpap and earplugs,.. Different story. I was only able to reduce the noise by keep it at apap mode at 4 water pressure as a start point
ResMed AirSense 11
AutoSet For HerModel
PAP Mode: Auto for Her
Min 7.2 Max 12.6 (cmH2O)
humidifier: 8
Amara view face mask
99% mask fit

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Pugsy
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by Pugsy » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:35 pm

Here's the link to the ResMed machine I was talking about. Unfortunately there is no S9 version of this particular model with the special apap mode.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... idair.html

The regular Autoset in both the S9 and AirSense models have 2 modes of operation available...cpap mode and apap mode.
It's only the for Her AirSense model that has the 3rd mode which is the apap for her mode.
So it has 3 modes...cpap, apap and special apap.

I don't know that the special apap mode will help you or not. It's just something in the arsenal of things to try that might. Early when the AirSense was being touted as the latest and greatest it was hinted that the special mode would help UARS patients but I haven't seen any documentation as to actual effectiveness.

UARS is a special beast and its hard to treat or evaluate because we don't have anything to really evaluate except how a person feels and that is so subjective that it makes things really difficult. Typically the AHI and leak numbers aren't all that exciting so its really hard to gauge anything by the usual numbers.
Also UARS patients seem to historically be rather "hypersensitive" to most external stimuli which compounds the problem.

I am rather glad I have only plain jane vanilla OSA to deal with. I think that UARS is much more difficult all the way around...at least from what I have read and heard.

Yes...you could always sell the PR S1 machine if you found you really liked another machine. You can sell it here on the forum or use your local craigslist. It's hard to sell a used machine on the forum and get anywhere near online retail. We are notorious for being tightwads...
Craigslist might get you a little more of your money back.
If you do end up deciding that is what you want to do...make sure that you aren't in any sort of rent to own agreement with current machine supplier. I don't know how your insurance may have handled the purchase of this current machine. In other words make sure you own it free and clear before you sell it.

If your primary issue is breathing noises then the slight difference in decibel levels between the S9 and the AirSense shouldn't really be an issue. Everyone that I know of who went from the S9 to the AirSense have all said that it seems at least as quiet as the S9 was or more quiet.

I wish I could tell you with certainty that you would like the ResMed better but I can't. Though I have never heard of anyone going from a PR S1 to a ResMed and being unhappy with their choice.
Your situation is not the typical situation though so I don't know if the difference in breathing noise will be enough to give you what you want.

Finding a used or near new AirSense 10 for Her Autoset that is discounted significantly might be possible if you look long enough and hard enough. They have been on the market now for a little over a year.

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Last edited by Pugsy on Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lindalam89
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by lindalam89 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:43 pm

I'm a bit sleepy but wanted to thank Pugsy for the helpful information on the resmed modes.

I also just with more fiddling realized the sound problem I have. It is not my breathing noise but the vibration noise. I placed the cpap on my mattress and a lot of the vibration when I breathe was reduced. But because it's on my bed I also hear the wind noise more. So back in the lower drawer with more towels underneath. At 4cm water pressure I got it almost as quiet as I would like but it's not there yet. Hopefully the resmed machine will have less vibration

So I'm going to gamble and buy the air sense and if I like it better, sell my remstar here. I don't need retail value to be happy to sell something I'm not going to use. But as long as it would reduce my financial burden on buying a new cpap. I'll be happy.

I might add more thoughts here on another day when I'm less fatigued.
ResMed AirSense 11
AutoSet For HerModel
PAP Mode: Auto for Her
Min 7.2 Max 12.6 (cmH2O)
humidifier: 8
Amara view face mask
99% mask fit

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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:48 pm

My Airsense 10 Autoset for her was a little louder than my old S9 Autoset;
louder still when I moved it up so I could see the screen, but less noisy once I shut off EPR.
After a couple weeks, I had trouble hearing it at all. Just enough so I can usually tell it's running.

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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by lindalam89 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:26 pm

Thanks for the response ChunkyFrog, did you notice the special algorithm helping you? At this point, I might default on the S9. But the airsense for her algorithim is enticing.
ResMed AirSense 11
AutoSet For HerModel
PAP Mode: Auto for Her
Min 7.2 Max 12.6 (cmH2O)
humidifier: 8
Amara view face mask
99% mask fit

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Goofproof
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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by Goofproof » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:30 pm

Just had a good idea, rig a harness to mount the XPAP on your back. Your body will sync to the machine noise and vibrations, you could use a shorter hose, and it would prevent rolling over on your back, but no HH.

You would have to use the 6ft hose under the covers so the machine could breath.

On second thought maybe it would be better to adapt to the slight noise, or mask it with background noise like the rest of us. The only noise free pump I've seen is one that won't run. Jim
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!

"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire

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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by KeepSmiling » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:46 pm

Pugsy wrote:Here's the link to the ResMed machine I was talking about. Unfortunately there is no S9 version of this particular model with the special apap mode.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... idair.html

The regular Autoset in both the S9 and AirSense models have 2 modes of operation available...cpap mode and apap mode.
It's only the for Her AirSense model that has the 3rd mode which is the apap for her mode.
So it has 3 modes...cpap, apap and special apap.

.
Pugsy wrote:Here's the link to the ResMed machine I was talking about. Unfortunately there is no S9 version of this particular model with the special apap mode.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... idair.html

The regular Autoset in both the S9 and AirSense models have 2 modes of operation available...cpap mode and apap mode.
It's only the for Her AirSense model that has the 3rd mode which is the apap for her mode.
So it has 3 modes...cpap, apap and special apap.

I don't know that the special apap mode will help you or not. It's just something in the arsenal of things to try that might. Early when the AirSense was being touted as the latest and greatest it was hinted that the special mode would help UARS patients but I haven't seen any documentation as to actual effectiveness.

UARS .
The "Forced Oscillation Technique" is also in the ResMed Auto A9 (If I remember correctly.)

Both Both Airsense10 Auto and the FOR HER are very quiet. I can not tell they are running. My old Remstar is a bit noiser. Not by much. Like I said to me the noise is what I hear in the mask.

The Airsense 10 does not record RERAs. At least one Remstar auto records arousals. Not sure if they are treated in anyway.


------------

The ResMed Airsense 10 FOR HER,

I am not sure if Pugsy is referring to this feature:

(copied from the clinical manual)

AutoSet for Her mode

AutoSet for Her mode is based on key aspects of ResMed’s AutoSet algorithm and delivers
therapeutic responses tailored to the characteristics of female OSA patients.

The AutoSet for Her is similar to ResMed’s AutoSet algorithm with the following modifications:
 Reduced rate of pressure increments designed to help prevent arousals.
 Slower pressure decays.
 Treats apneas up to 12 cm H2O and continues to respond to flow limitation and snore up to
20 cm H2O.

 Minimum pressure (Min. Pressure) that adjusts according to the frequency of apneas:

If two apneas occur within a minute, the pressure reached in response to the second apnea will
become the new minimum treatment pressure until the next treatment session.
Patients who use AutoSet for Her will still get the benefits of ResMed's AutoSet technology
including improved sensitivity to flow-limitation and Central Sleep Apnoea Detection with Forced
Oscillation Technique.
CPAP mode
In CPAP mode, a fixed pressure is delivered—with optional Expiratory Pressure Relief (EPR™).
Reporting
The AirSense 10 reports Respiratory Effort Related Arousals (RERA), and detects Central Sleep
Apnea (CSA) and Cheyne-Stokes Respiration (CSR). The summary and detailed data of these
parameters are available to view on ResMed's patient



Respiratory effort related arousals reporting
Respiratory Effort Related Arousals (RERA) reporting is available on the AirSense 10 AutoSet for Her
in all modes.
RERAs are periods of increasing respiratory effort which are terminated by an arousal. Increasing
respiratory effort will be seen as airflow limitation.These flow-based RERA events are logged and
stored as summary and/or detailed data and can then be viewed in one of ResMed's patient
management systems.

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Re: What is the quietest cpap?

Post by KeepSmiling » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:53 pm

Linda,

Just remember you are not alone and I understand where you are at right now. It will get better.

I have not been diagnosed with UARS. Last sleep study was 10 years ago. I went from stage 4 sleep to awake. I only had 20 something episodes an hour, SO2 did not go below 90%. I know I kept checking my watch. I thought I had not slept. In reality I would go from sleep to awake constantly.

I use my pressure on auto at a level higher then the lower I need to stop obstructive sleep apnea. The noise I have not figured out yet. I have found that covering my eyes with a very dark cloth helps. I am not sure if I get a deeper sleep or just that I do notice I wake and my body can go back to sleep.

I have noticed that I can get a deeper night sleep with my Hybrid then I did with the nasal prong mask (Nasal aire II).

My 20s was the worst that I can remember for my sleep deprived body. 30 years ago, I do not think people knew much about sleep apnea or other disorders. I was always given blood test and told me I was OK, college and work did not go well. I am concerned for you because your desperation reminds me of my desperation to just get a good night sleep. My BMI was 19, I was not overweight.

I eventually became wired and could not even sleep. It was at this point I was prescribed the 1mg Ativan which knocked me out. I used it for less then a month. My body got some restorative sleep and I was able to function again. After that I was back to not sleeping well but at least I was able to sleep for more then a couple of hours a night. Forward 20 years, I fought with one doctor to get a referral for a sleep test, because women do not get sleep apnea. I got my APAP machine. I still do not have it down pat. I decided to pursue it until I get right. (Time for a new machine but I have not looked into which one yet.) But much much better then before my machine. 9 Years on an APAP, I need to go back to using it every night and just going to bed before getting to tired to go to bed. Long story.

One 20 year old I know was told by doctor to take Benadryl to at least get some sleep every so often until he got tested. Now on a machine and figuring out masks. Seems to be less tired with wisp nasal mask then pillow mask, forgot name. Nasal mask leaks and working on that.

Getting it right is a work in progress.