Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Pesser
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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by Pesser » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:12 pm

I have quickly gone through the articles. Can anyone tell me how many people were in the studies? The size is important to mitigate variability.

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Julie
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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by Julie » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:29 pm

Look at the links again - they'll tell you.

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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by Cereal Killer » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:38 pm

corvallisgrace75 wrote:The difficulty I've had with this thread and another one I contributed to, is that I feel like people aren't grasping what I'm trying to say. I've had many people pick out very specific quotes and respond to them without acknowledging the context in which they were presented. To me, that is an ineffective way of responding to somebody's questions and the information it provides is not particularly useful. And in some instances, it feels downright disrespectful. I'm trying to have an honest dialogue about my concerns, but it seems as though people want to school me and tell me I'm wrong.
I read through the posts and it sounds like you want to people to validate your beliefs.

This forum is not a warm and fuzzy place for people who just want validation. So learn from the people and don't take anything personal. (Even when it's meant to be personal.)

For myself, if I had tonsils and my ENT told me they were enlarged to the point they might be affecting my OSA, I would want them out.

You are not going to feel any pain during the surgery and a good medical team will make sure any pain after surgery is well managed until full recovery.

Whatever you decide, validation from anyone here is not required.

Good luck.

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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by Pesser » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:03 pm

Julie wrote:Look at the links again - they'll tell you.
You don't really think I didn't do that....do you?

Every single group I am finding is less than 400. By following the # "highlighted". They are all different samples at different times. We know little of the quality of the studies which the article is based on. Does that sit OK with everyone?

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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by corvallisgrace75 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:52 pm

Cereal Killer wrote:
corvallisgrace75 wrote:The difficulty I've had with this thread and another one I contributed to, is that I feel like people aren't grasping what I'm trying to say. I've had many people pick out very specific quotes and respond to them without acknowledging the context in which they were presented. To me, that is an ineffective way of responding to somebody's questions and the information it provides is not particularly useful. And in some instances, it feels downright disrespectful. I'm trying to have an honest dialogue about my concerns, but it seems as though people want to school me and tell me I'm wrong.
I read through the posts and it sounds like you want to people to validate your beliefs.

This forum is not a warm and fuzzy place for people who just want validation. So learn from the people and don't take anything personal. (Even when it's meant to be personal.)

For myself, if I had tonsils and my ENT told me they were enlarged to the point they might be affecting my OSA, I would want them out.

You are not going to feel any pain during the surgery and a good medical team will make sure any pain after surgery is well managed until full recovery.

Whatever you decide, validation from anyone here is not required.

Good luck.
HI Cereal Killer. (Great name, seriously! LOL!) I'm looking for respect, not validation. There's a difference. It's very easy to tell who is being respectful here. Someone who is respectful doesn't have to validate what I'm saying or agree with me one bit. But their respect is clearly demonstrated in the way that they articulate their answers. I don't think it's too much to ask for respect. For the most part, people have been respectful. And I appreciate that. I don't learn from people who talk at me. I learn from people who talk to me. Thanks for stopping by.
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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by BlackSpinner » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:37 pm

The thing is that people will answer that part of the post that they are most familiar with. There is no point in one of us responding on something we don't know about and each of us experience OSA differently.

You won't find me answering highly technical posts - my OSA has been garden variety and responds so well I haven't bothered with the software. However I do have experience in the "soft" areas and analysis and in having had lots of "small" medical issues - those are the parts I focus on.

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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:49 pm

Language skills do not always correlate to sincerity, kindness or intelligence.
It is a prejudice that limits our understanding of the truth.
Just because someone can say pretty words with tact and kindness does not mean
that person is anything more than a skillful bull-slinger. Washington is proof of that.
I try to use my gift for good, but I, too, have fallen to temptation. The frog can be BAD.

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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by corvallisgrace75 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:57 pm

BlackSpinner wrote:The thing is that people will answer that part of the post that they are most familiar with. There is no point in one of us responding on something we don't know about and each of us experience OSA differently.

You won't find me answering highly technical posts - my OSA has been garden variety and responds so well I haven't bothered with the software. However I do have experience in the "soft" areas and analysis and in having had lots of "small" medical issues - those are the parts I focus on.
That makes good sense, BlackSpinner. This forum is definitely a new experience for me. On other forums I've been on, people are talking about some crazy medical issues. So you get a lot of horror stories. I hope you continue to focus on the things you know and feel comfortable with.
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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by corvallisgrace75 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:02 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:Language skills do not always correlate to sincerity, kindness or intelligence.
It is a prejudice that limits our understanding of the truth.
Just because someone can say pretty words with tact and kindness does not mean
that person is anything more than a skillful bull-slinger. Washington is proof of that.
I try to use my gift for good, but I, too, have fallen to temptation. The frog can be BAD.
An interesting observation, chunkyfrog. And a complicated one at that. Especially when so much of our communication these days comes down to written language. I can definitely see both sides. I think I'd take a skillful bull-slinger though. Because chances are, I wouldn't know that they're not being sincere. And on a forum where most of us don't know each other, there's not a lot to go off of. Ha! Fallen to temptation. That cracked me up. Bad frog. Bad...bad!
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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by palerider » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:06 pm

corvallisgrace75 wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote: I, too, have fallen to temptation. The frog can be BAD.
Fallen to temptation. That cracked me up. Bad frog. Bad...bad!
she's a very naughty frog.... but that's part of why she's so good

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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by corvallisgrace75 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:25 pm

library lady wrote:
corvallisgrace75 wrote: It was my doctor who told me that I had 10 awakenings per hour, based on the study I did. He did not mention how long each one was. Again, he also mentioned that removing my tonsils would remove the need for the CPAP. He posed it as an "either/or". He left the choice up to me.
I had my tonsils removed when I was 5 years old. Having your tonsils out may or may not remove the need for CPAP; the same is true for all of the surgical remedies, in part because there's no true measure of what causes OSA, just that for some reason your throat closes up so that you stop breathing.

My AHI during sleep study was 11, considered mild by my doctor. These days, according to machine data and Sleepyhead, AHI is usually <3, rarely does it get up to 5. Like you, I figured any improvement was a good thing.
Hi library lady. I never realized this, but my doctor said that as people get older, their tonsils are supposed to decrease in size. Assuming they have not been removed. After a bad bout of strep 11 years ago, mine were so big they were practically touching. It made it hard for me to talk and breathe during the day, let alone sleep. Fortunately, they decreased in size on their own, despite remaining quite large in size today. I'm not sure why my doctor would mention the tonsil issue if there's no true measure of what causes OSA. Hopefully it is based on his experience, and perhaps because it's a visibly obvious obstruction.

Thus far, I am happy with the results I have received. As I mentioned, they're around .5 events per hour. Numerically, that is definitely an improvement. I think more than anything, I'm glad that I've made it through the night with them on.
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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by Morbius » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:50 am

chunkyfrog wrote:that person is anything more than a skillful bull-slinger. Washington is proof of that.
Exactly!

If he really was an "Honest Abe", he wouldn't have ended up on the one-dollar bill.

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Re: Not Trying to Stir Up Trouble...But...

Post by zoocrewphoto » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:03 am

My sister had her tonsils out about 2 years ago (she's in her 40s) due to repeated infections. She does not have sleep apnea, so this was purely so that she would stop getting sick frequently. The recovery was painful, and she lost a lot for weight in the weeks where she could barely get anything down. I think she was on a liquid diet for at least 2 weeks. But it did solve her problem, so she is happy.

I recently had tonsillitis. First time in over 20 years. I was miserable for a few days, finally went to the doctor, got medication, and had immediate improvement. My tonsils do not seem related to my sleep apnea. I have a very narrow airway, small jaw, allergies and asthma that make things worse, etc.

I have no idea if it would help with sleep apnea for other people. Just wanted to say that as recently as 2 years ago, it was still a painful recovery. Definitely do your homework before committing to surgery of any kind.

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Brodsky Scale

Post by ChicagoGranny » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:48 am

This issue is not as mysterious as it is being made out to be.

Image

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Re: Brodsky Scale

Post by corvallisgrace75 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:11 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:This issue is not as mysterious as it is being made out to be.

Image

Image
This is a great diagram. Thanks, ChicacoGranny. I'd say I'm somewhere between Degree 3 and Degree 4. Degree 4 at the worst. Not everyone who has suffered repeated tonsil infections has large tonsils, just as I haven't had a lot of infections but mine are very large. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person that's been advised to get their tonsils out to assist with day and night breathing. I would imagine that my airway doesn't need to do much collapsing for the tonsils to have an effect in obstructing my breathing during sleep.

zoocrewphoto: I would not get a traditional tonsillectomy. That's just horrid. I would get a laser ablation. It's something that you have to know about and ask for. There's a lot of information about it. Even when I researched it 11 years ago, I was able to find a lot of information about it. It just wasn't common or covered the way it is now. Here's a link about it: http://www.eossleep.com/laser-assisted-tonsil-ablation/

That said, my focus for now is to continue using the CPAP. I feel like I'm doing well and I'm just taking it day by day at this point.
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